ImaNewbie Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 NoCB 2.0 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 From a war they were in? That's how it seems from what I've gathered from these threads.If that's the case, the Karma War is over, and the prosecution on that is a bit late, and should've been left dead at peace. From what I gathered, TPF was never at war with Athens so the fact that the Karma war is over has nothing to do with this. I don't think TPF ever denied starting this espionage activity. Regardless of when it happened, I know I'd be pissed if I was Athens who apparently just found out about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2burnt2eat Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Sorry, no. TPF never engaged against Athens. Yea, Athens engaged GGA and NPO; allies of TPF of the time :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Expects Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 You can be sure you know where BAPS stands TPF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 [00:23] <mhawk> do you feel you have earned a white peace?[00:28] <mhawk> I'm asking why hit pieces, ridicule, spying, were started by an offensive war you started, warrant white peace Well you heard the man! The one thing this Phoenix does not hunger for is white peace. Ignoring the lie to focus on that is pathetic especially when its by the spokesman for justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 [00:23] <mhawk> do you feel you have earned a white peace?[00:28] <mhawk> I'm asking why hit pieces, ridicule, spying, were started by an offensive war you started, warrant white peace Well you heard the man! The one thing this Phoenix does not hunger for is white peace. So the CB has changed to this now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 From what I gathered, TPF was never at war with Athens so the fact that the Karma war is over has nothing to do with this. I don't think TPF ever denied starting this espionage activity. Regardless of when it happened, I know I'd be pissed if I was Athens who apparently just found out about this. Yeah.. 6 months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) VietPF? I don't like it. PF'nam. Maybe TPFistan. Edited December 27, 2009 by hizzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zizka Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 From what I gathered, TPF was never at war with Athens so the fact that the Karma war is over has nothing to do with this. I don't think TPF ever denied starting this espionage activity. Regardless of when it happened, I know I'd be pissed if I was Athens who apparently just found out about this. To me, global war is global war, and the enemy of my friend is my enemy. I've always hated the "fronts" analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necromancer V4L Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 From a war they were in? That's how it seems from what I've gathered from these threads.If that's the case, the Karma War is over, and the prosecution on that is a bit late, and should've been left dead at peace. You can't honestly believe that having ex-members form AA's in an attempt to obtain a protectorate with an enemy and coup them from the inside is something that TPF pulled out of their "WAR" playbook, can you? That would take at least 2-5 months logistically, no one plans for that while negotiating a surrender. This was a blatant attempt to gain power and turn the tables in the future - they were out of options then, so they did what any good AA would do, plan for the future; only people don't take too kindly to the kind of plans that involve spying and coup attempts. There is no expiration date on a CB; if you have been wronged by an AA then you can hold them to justice when and if you see fit. Athens and RoK have been wronged, and they will see their justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill n ted Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Interesting and worth the read. Will Londo be a happy bunny when he turns up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Yea, Athens engaged GGA and NPO; allies of TPF of the time :/ Irrelevant since TPF never activated their mutual defense treaties by declaring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homura Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 It's still an improvement over the old world where the war simply never ended (unless one side was defeated by a third party) -- at least TPF got a break. Oh that's just ridiculous hyperbole. FAN, LSF and Vox were the only alliances to suffer that fate. Everyone else got terms. But good luck to TPF in surviving this, especially if it actually is the case that they didn't do anything wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 You can be sure you know where BAPS stands TPF. ^ This, the BS CB just feeds our rage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulchep Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Yea, Athens engaged GGA and NPO; allies of TPF of the time :/ Yes, and? There was no engagement. If you want to try that route, one could argue that TPF didn't surrender to Athens, thus the war is still in effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 VietPF? I don't like it.PF'nam. Maybe TPFistan. Carthage is also going to get burned, this is our first time everybody. We still have two more lives so don't worry about us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2burnt2eat Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) Irrelevant since TPF never activated their mutual defense treaties by declaring. Athens being on the Karma side of the war, and TPF being on the other side is irrelevant, in a global-war situation, for spying during that time? EDIT: Not necessarily spying, but you get what I mean. Edited December 27, 2009 by 2burnt2eat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadshot Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 It is a shame diplomacy couldn't have at least been tried before this, but those who want a war got one, no matter how shabby the CB. o/ TPF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartypants Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 ^ This, the BS CB just feeds our rage. CB? There is one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necromancer V4L Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) Athens being on the Karma side of the war, and TPF being on the other side is irrelevant, in a global-war situation, for spying during that time? If you can't win a war without infiltrating someones forums/alliance, then you really, really suck at this. Edited December 27, 2009 by Necromancer V4L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 This is what I've been waiting for. Unlike the CB, at least you're honest. From what I gathered, TPF was never at war with Athens so the fact that the Karma war is over has nothing to do with this. I don't think TPF ever denied starting this espionage activity. Regardless of when it happened, I know I'd be pissed if I was Athens who apparently just found out about this. Cool story bro, The act of war happened during war. If it continued, DOW ZH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Ignoring the lie to focus on that is pathetic especially when its by the spokesman for justice. So the CB has changed to this now? So wait. He can use subversive activities as justification to pursue an unending war but others can't use it as a means to start one? He planned and undertook steps to create a splinter alliance of his oldest, most loyal deputies to infiltrate, undermine, and destroy another alliance with whom his alliance was not formally at war. This was never covered or addressed in any peace negotiations or finalised peace agreement despite in itself constituting a declaration of war against Athens. Athens really should have spoken to TPF about this before jumping into it, but this war is not unjustified either way. Plus, I simply cannot ignore the poetry of mhawk talking out both sides of his mouth. Where's his dignity, his decency!? OOC: OOC matters have absolutely no place in this forum or this game's politics, full-stop. All such mention, excuses, and other sympathy cards will be summarily ignored. I got over that BS a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenzilla Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Spying is spying I guess. Some sort of war was fought over me spying and being on a ZI list or something. Some sort of war with the sides reversed I do beleive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2burnt2eat Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 If you can't win a war without infiltrating someones forums/alliance, then you really, really suck at this game. Not everybody is good enough to take that many alliances on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Yes, and? There was no engagement.If you want to try that route, one could argue that TPF didn't surrender to Athens, thus the war is still in effect. One would also have to show we were even talking to you guys. I find it interesting we would send a group out and continue to do such activities with a group that openly and ooc hated me. There is no best way to start this out, there never is. This whole affair has not been ideal and granted me personally I've been rather flaky. With all that has gone on in RL and my decision to quit CN then my reversal, I feel like a John Kerry swift boat ad. That aside, I made my decision to stay in CN because some very good friends made me realize what it is about this game that I love the most. I am very thankful for their support and glad they had the heart to tell me before I made good on a decision I would regret.This affair with how the war came to be, your departure from TPF, your return and everything that went down in between has brought me to this moment. I like you mhawk, you're a good guy, but I have zero respect and frankly I'm outright disgusted with you. Make no mistake, I have been one of your most loyal & strongest defenders, for a short time I tried to spin your departure and give some people an insight as to why you did what you did. Of course all that was !@#$%^&*, because deep down I knew you had betrayed everything you've ever said you valued. ...... Lastly the issue that bothers me the most, affects me personally. I will never get the two things I deserve, which is to be respected & trusted. When you or the rest of high gov can't clue me in on what the plan is for my department and I have to find out from my banks, that does not fly with me. I am one of the most accessible government members in TPF and you can't even pay me the courtesy of letting me know? fark you. I may ask stupid questions or make assumptions, but I do it because I have to operate on only finding out bits and pieces here and there. You have no idea how that makes me feel, especially considering I am one of the Elysium Crew. If it wasn't for a couple of people I'd be completely cut off. In truth I pretty much am, I can accept that regardless of the reasoning or lack there of. I do not need to be clued in on everything, most of it bores the crap out of me, but to have an idea of what is going on would be great. Communication has never been one of your strong suits, TPF membership knows this all too well. Which is rather sad when you think about it, because of all the people who want to hear from you the most, you rarely talk to them. So my intention is to finish the war with TPF doing whatever I can to help and then part ways quietly. I realize that this decision counters everything I've worked for. That is my burden to carry. I have no grudge against you, you will not see me trashing you or any other petty crap. I've said everything I need to here and I'm going to leave it at that. I wish you the best mhawk, regardless of how I feel you are still a good person. I just can't in good faith serve or follow you. We've had some great times and I will always remember those. So it is best that I take my leave and pursue a different path. Regards, DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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