Subtleknifewielder Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 And there is the next escalation why I have problems with RP outside of IG-mode: way too many rules devised to create too many exceptions from (unliked) IG-stats and ability means too many rules to keep track of. The only hard and fast rules there are is what we have to go with IG for our nations. Keep it simple... Take out the option for wars, though, and you take out a big chunk of what can be done realistically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loannes Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I think at the very least, Justinian mode shouldn't be affective. The rules are if you don't recognize a war, the attacker wins. We shouldn't let people break that rule by saying "oh, lol, I'm in Justinian mode." Next thing you know, there's going to be a mode where the person doesn't recognize spy ops, or anything bad happening to their nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I think at the very least, Justinian mode shouldn't be affective. The rules are if you don't recognize a war, the attacker wins. We shouldn't let people break that rule by saying "oh, lol, I'm in Justinian mode." Next thing you know, there's going to be a mode where the person doesn't recognize spy ops, or anything bad happening to their nation. Someone pointed out once that that rule doesn’t exist. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but the fact is I’m not here to be the object of certain people’s lulz. I’m here to have fun. If a player has an undying need to rp a war with me they can suggest it, if I find it fun then I’ll run with it. End of story as far as I’m concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnost Dural Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Someone pointed out once that that rule doesn’t exist. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but the fact is I’m not here to be the object of certain people’s lulz. I’m here to have fun. If a player has an undying need to rp a war with me they can suggest it, if I find it fun then I’ll run with it. End of story as far as I’m concerned. I agree with this assessment. People take time to invest and develop their nations. I don't think it's appropriate to have them at the whim of novice and immature players seeking a "lol" RP. If somebody wants a war as Justinian said, they should contact the other player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loannes Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Someone pointed out once that that rule doesn’t exist. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but the fact is I’m not here to be the object of certain people’s lulz. I’m here to have fun. If a player has an undying need to rp a war with me they can suggest it, if I find it fun then I’ll run with it. End of story as far as I’m concerned. Then let me put it this way. Why block an IC action because you OOCly don't want to deal with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergerberger II Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) I agree with this assessment. People take time to invest and develop their nations. I don't think it's appropriate to have them at the whim of novice and immature players seeking a "lol" RP. If somebody wants a war as Justinian said, they should contact the other player. Except good wars are highly planned, at least by one side, and they are well-done, well-thought-out, and have a reason, whether it is a good one or not, for the invasion. For example, awhile back, in like March or something, the Nordic Confederacy invaded Slavorussia with precision, unity, and efficiency that really had never been seen before. Led by KaiserMartens, we planned out something that we all still consider to be our crowning achievement in this RP, the invasion of Slavorussia. And we did not speak a word of it to Slavorussia. We planned it completely without him and invaded him without his 'permission'. And it's not like people didn't see it coming. It was pretty damn obvious, with all the historical tension between Slavorussia and old 'Nordic' nations, in addition to the animosity that had been built up prior to the war between the Nordic Confederacy and Slavorussia, really made the threat of war a very real one. We of the NC planned for three weeks the invasion of Slavorussia. We knew everything that would happen. We deployed nearly a year before the invasion (RP time) and we knew exactly who would join, who would invade where, what would happen if Lynneth entered, and how quickly we needed to beat Slavorussia. And we did. Slavorussia surrendered before we expected and we didn't have to deal with what would become known as the ComIntern. Wars are not things that people just throw out randomly. At least not from our side. Many may consider us 'evil', or in one case 'Nazis' (and that's OOC hatred from Uberstein there), but it cannot be denied that we RP war damn well, and we are pretty good at what we do. Wars from us are not out of the blue, if you look, the warning signs are clear, and we plan in a way that makes sense. Our war posts are long and detailed, with pictures. If I could find the thread, I would show you it, I still consider it some of my best work and I know those of us 'Nords' consider it some of the best work we ever did. Three weeks of preparations, planning, and observation. Bloody hell it was great My point here is that wars should not be outlawed, and stupid things like crying Botha-mode when you're about to be invaded should be outlawed. People are deathly afraid of losing power, and thus they do Botha mode. Those that refrain from retreating to Botha mode are people that I can respect, while I really can't respect those that do it. Don't misconstrue my words, however. I respect Botha and Junio, as they have both always been in that mode (though Junio is more questionable, but he does a good job of it), but people that just jump into it when they're not in power, especially when it is pretty clear what they're doing, just fall far in my eyes. Considering the fact that when they had power, they did not even consider going into Botha-mode, but as soon as their power is threatened, they dive under a rock and hide from the stronger folk. Disgusting. Edited November 11, 2009 by Mergerberger II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 My point here is that wars should not be outlawed, and stupid things like crying Botha-mode when you're about to be invaded should be outlawed. People are deathly afraid of losing power, and thus they do Botha mode. Those that refrain from retreating to Botha mode are people that I can respect, while I really can't respect those that do it. Don't misconstrue my words, however. I respect Botha and Junio, as they have both always been in that mode (though Junio is more questionable, but he does a good job of it), but people that just jump into it when they're not in power, especially when it is pretty clear what they're doing, just fall far in my eyes. Considering the fact that when they had power, they did not even consider going into Botha-mode, but as soon as their power is threatened, they dive under a rock and hide from the stronger folk. Disgusting. To me CNRP is a political simulator and part war is part of politics. Nobody is trying outlaw wars, that wouldn't make sense. What I want, like KaiserMartens wanted a few months ago is to be left alone. Let me play with my pixels and make a few remarks when the occasion calls for it. Although from your point of view the Slavo-NC war was fun, from mine it really wasn’t that great. I’m not putting down the amount of planning and rp that went into it, It was probably the most realistic war so far, but as you can plainly tell I am not a good at war rp. If we just took a moment to consider what other people though, and not fighting over a chunk of land, or teaching this person a lesson I think we’d all have a lot more fun and there’d be less ooc fighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergerberger II Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 To me CNRP is a political simulator and part war is part of politics. Nobody is trying outlaw wars, that wouldn't make sense. What I want, like KaiserMartens wanted a few months ago is to be left alone. Let me play with my pixels and make a few remarks when the occasion calls for it. Although from your point of view the Slavo-NC war was fun, from mine it really wasn’t that great. I’m not putting down the amount of planning and rp that went into it, It was probably the most realistic war so far, but as you can plainly tell I am not a good at war rp. If we just took a moment to consider what other people though, and not fighting over a chunk of land, or teaching this person a lesson I think we’d all have a lot more fun and there’d be less ooc fighting. I have no doubt that there would be less OOC fighting, though I doubt the fun, at least from the victor's side (obviously). Frankly, most of the war RP I do is based on surprise and deception, and having to go to someone and say 'hey, you want to fight and give me your land?' would destroy that. If I want my position on the map to grow larger, then I am going to have to surprise people with war, not go and ask their permission to take their land or kill their people. While I understand the ways it would be fun, there are certain aspects for which it would not be advantageous, and frankly land-grabbing in a political simulator in which I have no real stake in my citizens' or soldiers' lives is one of few ways to keep my attention, and with wars being forced to be agreed to by both sides, that would not be possible, and I would likely lose interest, and thus, I must support the unplanned war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generalissimo Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Yes, the Slavorussian war was all fun and games, but when most of the world turned against their armies your faction much of your coalition cried foul and rage quitted (including most notably, yourself MergerBringer, why do you go and do that Merger?). The way wars are carried now are the primary reason people leave CNRP, most don’t come back after being rolled over by a powerful coalition without forewarning, and I prefer a community where people where people don’t leave in anger and frustration. Edited November 11, 2009 by Generalissimo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Maybe those who want only to war randomly should make a Tourny-version of CNRP? That was we can have are respectful politics and planned wars, and they can have their unplanned blitzs on unsuspecting smaller nations. Just because some people get bored if they arn't blowing things up doesn't mean the rest of us should have to suffer the consequences of the fact that politics in a political simulator is boring to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loannes Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Maybe those who want only to war randomly should make a Tourny-version of CNRP? That was we can have are respectful politics and planned wars, and they can have their unplanned blitzs on unsuspecting smaller nations. Just because some people get bored if they arn't blowing things up doesn't mean the rest of us should have to suffer the consequences of the fact that politics in a political simulator is boring to them. Why make a new version of CNRP because a few people don't like the idea of a blitz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Maybe those who want only to war randomly should make a Tourny-version of CNRP? That was we can have are respectful politics and planned wars, and they can have their unplanned blitzs on unsuspecting smaller nations. Just because some people get bored if they arn't blowing things up doesn't mean the rest of us should have to suffer the consequences of the fact that politics in a political simulator is boring to them. I wouldn't go that far. Quoting one of my previous statements on the matter, however, There should be a rule on Nation strength. Keep the spontaneous wars. KEEP THEM COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY! Just, make it so an immensely stronger nation IG'ly cannot pre-emptively take hostile actions up to and including war against a nation that IG'ly is a fly to them without the fly's consent. This does not rule out defensive actions. CN itself has this rule, why can't CNRP? Basically, this is an open market system with a little command thrown in. If Nation A ~ Nation B in terms of brute IG statistics (~ = approximately equal to), or perhaps solely on the actual IG Nation Strength value. The current system of 'spontaneity' exists. Anything goes, do what ever you want (open for discussion/modification). If Nation A >>>>Nation B Nation A cannot pre-emptively take hostile actions up to and including war against B, unless both parties agree to RP out the scenario A proposes. Or A has no choice due to IC reasons, (ie: protectorate nation is under attack, Treaty Obligations, etc etc). This is of course null if B decides to perform its own pre-emptive strike on A. The above scenarios would always, however, follow SOM's statement: ...at least have the courtesy of backing off if the RPer doesn't want to war[.] Barring the previously stated idea that A or B must follow through with the scenario due to IC (and well documented IC at that) reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Why make a new version of CNRP because a few people don't like the idea of a blitz? I'm just saying, if there are people here only for the war, leave those of us here for the politics alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Terra Di Agea Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) I'm just saying, if there are people here only for the war, leave those of us here for the politics alone. Or, they could alternatively learn how to RP war without god-modding, whining, rage-quitting, getting indignant and maybe, just maybe learn how to use a tactic other than " I IZ MOVING MAH TANKS INTO YOUR LANDZ!! MY TANKZ KILLZ ALL YUR DUDZ!!" That alone would be nice. Edited November 11, 2009 by Il Terra Di Agea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Or, they could alternatively learn how to RP war without god-modding, whining, rage-quitting, getting indignant and maybe, just maybe learn how to use a tactic other than " I IZ MOVING MAH TANKS INTO YOUR LANDZ!! MY TANKZ KILLZ ALL YUR DUDZ!!" That alone would be nice. That would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahsir Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 This pole ends when ww1 ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) I'm just saying, if there are people here only for the war, leave those of us here for the politics alone. War plays a major part when it comes to politics. Edited November 11, 2009 by Voodoo Nova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynneth Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 War plays a major part when it comes to politics. Not IRL. And not on the scale we do it in CNRP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Not IRL. And not on the scale we do it in CNRP. In real life, the threat of nuclear annihilation during the cold war most certainly affected the way politics went for at least 45-50 years. Right now, the war in Iraq & Afghanistan affects our political relations with nation's such as Iran, India,Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan. War and the threat of war does play a major part in politics. Quick Edit: Post 3000. Edited November 11, 2009 by Voodoo Nova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Yes, but no nation exists ONLY for war. If somebody only wants to RP war, then he should RP a general in somebody's nation or we could have what is already made for CN, a separate version of the game that is purely for war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botha Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Take out the option for wars, though, and you take out a big chunk of what can be done realistically. Really? Not having the option of RP warring doesn't seem to restrict me, does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahsir Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 16 to 16, however, since some people voted yes when they meant to vote no (there was a poll question) No wins at 14 to 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Wilding Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 What exactly is the difference between Botha mode and Justinian mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahsir Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 What exactly is the difference between Botha mode and Justinian mode? Botha moders are pure IG stuff. Except Botha does it the best. Justinian mode is "GTFO unplanned stuff". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDCJT Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I voted no. Thus, the balance is thrown off balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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