An Announcement from the Emperor of the Roman Empire

[Varianz]

TPF keeps its word in war.you think diffrent talk to me.

<@dogbite[TPF]> way i see it is re dont tell tpf who they can fight.so $%&@ them.

<@dogbite[TPF]> we get le and roll them.

That's all I have to say on that subject.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Tiberius12

[Gabryal]

To any member of any alliance that respects honor, I ask for clemency for RE now that Tiberius is gone.

Sorry Gabryal but you abandoned your allies when they most needed you because of 1 member... I thought you guys were better than that maybe Tiberius was doing the right thing anyways.

I am truly sorry IroNkiD, Tiberius left us with little choice if you think it through to it's logical conclusion.

1) Tiberius attempts to destroy his enemies by throwing his allies under the bus

2) Said Allies break alliance with Tiberius's Alliance.

What else could we do? If we had not broken our alliance it would appear that we were in collusion with this nefarious scheme, if it was "just one member" then we might have worked it out. It wasn't, it was your founder, who now flaunts his "brilliance" that he managed to be two faced for X number of rounds. We were left with little choice, and as I said before, RE will pay for Tiberius's sins. Whether this is fair or not is not relevant, fair is rarely a considered issue in TE. TPF respects honor, courage, loyalty, and skill in our allies and our enemies, however even we do not attempt to fight "fair". Frostbite was just on a receiving end of a TPF attack, we didn't try to hit them when they were prepared, we did our best to hit them when they were unprepared, this is war, this is TE.

That being said, I wish you luck, I understand if you are bitter, however until RE can prove that it is willing to stand by TPF's values then TPF will have nothing to do with RE. It can hardly be said that we should return to pet the snake that just bit us, even if the snake is well and truly dead. RE will endure this attack and next round will be better for Folger's leadership I am sure, if a time comes when TPF feels that we are safe from any scheme with RE, perhaps we will again be allied. The future is unknown, the present is that we, as all should, look out for our own members first.

I hope at least some of your bitterness is aimed at the creator of your destruction, Tiberius, than at the allies who he betrayed. Black is attacking you right now, MHA has declared war, TPF by all rights could do the same. We are not because we realize that Tiberius's treachery is not RE's treachery. However we will not stand in the way of any alliance who wishes more than that.

I wonder if the situations were reversed how you would feel, and what you would do. I find it ironic that Tiberius is so belligerent about being couped, when he suggested that Wiz and I should or would coup Burning Glory. I wish you well, but I will do nothing to stop the cry for blood to be paid for blood spilled. In many ways RE as a whole cannot be exonerated, with the exception of Folger. Would you honestly have done something had you known about Tiberius's plans? Can you look me in the eye and suggested Tiberius be overthrown if you had known? How do I know you didn't know? I can't, and because we can't know, TPF will not intervene in your behalf.

Look to Folger now RE, he is your one chance at survival. Tiberius would have led you to endless ruin, Folger knew that war would likely come from this revelation, but had the courage to do the right thing and uplift RE's name. Everyone loses at some point, take it with good grace and the knowledge that in future rounds, RE will be better led, and more respected, than ever before.

[Gabryal]

That's all I have to say on that subject.

What in the hell are you talking about? Your post not only made no sense, it reinforced the point dogbite was making. RE doesn't tell TPF who to fight, we never were your puppets snake, and what possible reason could you have to think we were? You thought you could enforce your will upon us, you were wrong. Slither back under your rock and stop pretending your words carry any weight anymore.

You could have been great, instead you have fallen on your own sword, and now cry foul that anyone dared think you were the snake you are, before it was revealed you are in fact a snake?

Again your hubris takes center stage, you thought you were smarter than everyone. You were wrong

[Varianz]

Way too many words.

TPF had no way of knowing that I was plotting against them, because until today at around 3PM, no one but myself knew (not even Folger). And yet, half a day earlier you sat in a channel with Thaisport, and discussed how to bring down RE. Apparently I wasn't the only one plotting a betrayal.

[dogbite]

wait what?

tibs dont make this ulgy with lies or buy putting this on owf.you want to talk be a man and talk to ,me off owf.

[dogbite]

i think its clear who lies and stabs there freinds.

[dogbite]

That's all I have to say on that subject.

o you took a joke i made and posted it.lot of class.

to be clear i never liked tibs.

Edited October 4, 2009 by dogbite

[Gabryal]

TPF had no way of knowing that I was plotting against them, because until today at around 3PM, no one but myself knew (not even Folger). And yet, half a day earlier you sat in a channel with Thaisport, and discussed how to bring down RE. Apparently I wasn't the only one plotting a betrayal.

I did? That's an interesting revelation, how odd of me, I thought we were discussing philosophical differences, apparent weaknesses we saw in each other, the breach of the 1st amendment that the city he was living in was attempting to pull by destroying a Buddhist Temple, oh and how RE's god complex was bad for TPF and discussed various theories on how to end it.

Of course by RE we ment you, and of course by theories we were having a good philosophical debate not planning to throw RE to the dogs. Thaisport is a friend of mine, we have much in common, we like to debate, discuss, and talk about many issues. However since I have no power outside what is granted to me at the discretion of Burning Glory, my debates on what were the weaknesses of any alliance, including MHA and TPF, on purely theoretical basis, you words are meaningless. If TPF had decided to turn against RE, we would have done it out in the open, not behind the back. If I had stabbed you Tibs you'd be able to see it in my eyes when the blade went in. I'm not a coward like you.

That being said, you have brought to my attention many things that amuse me, and will be the subject between thai and myself in our next theoretical discussion. I missed him tonight, wish I hadn't, this whole situation would have been very interesting.

Oh and if people don't know what I'm talking about, it's called the "What if" game, it's for people who can use things like "reason" and "logic" to predict the outcomes of various events without 100% of the data available.

So do I admit to discussing with thaisport various ways that RE could be brought down? Yes I do, however I also have talked to him about ways of bringing down MHA, TPF, LE, Fark, PU ( briefly, to little information as of yet to analyze your intentions ) Frostbite, and pretty much every alliance in TE that has existed in the last six months.

Why? Because it's a fun mental game that I enjoy, I believe thai enjoys, and I will continue to do so. However, is there any seriousness to any of it? Since most of it is far fetched, no there is not. Ironically the situation that happened today, with you being dethroned snake, and the war that has followed with TPF sitting on the sidelines, never came up.

I never once thought I would see the day RE betrayed TPF, nor the day that Burning Glory would dissolve the TPF/RE alliance. Amazingly in all the scenario's that have played out in my intellectual discussions with many people who have an active higher brain function, I never considered the one we are in now. Congratulations on surprising me with the amount of duplicity you can bring to the table.

In the past people warned me you would turn on TPF eventually, I denied you would, not so much for your personal ethics, but because you liked to swing the TPF hammer at people who would challenge RE, I also counted on Folger to be ethical, as he and I have had a long and happy friendship since I arrived on the scene.

I was half right.

Oh, and way to think you were smarter than everyone else, one thing that did come up was that if you were ever brought down, it would be because of your hubris, your belief that you were untouchable and simply more clever than everyone around you.

That one was spot on.

Edit: To add the part after "I was half right"

Edited October 4, 2009 by Gabryal

[dogbite]

guy is trying to tread water.hes pulling things that have nothing to do with this.i for one am a man of my word.ill back anything i said.

Edited October 4, 2009 by dogbite

[IRoNkiD]

Dont worry about us Gabryal its TE most of us were waiting for something like this to happen or else whats the point of building up your nation and losing it after reset without doing anything.

In my perspective TE is the place to practice your evil plans rather than getting unwanted trouble in SE lol

sadly no one wants to play with me come on MHA it will all be reset anyways

[thaisport]

I'll keep it simple...

1) I wish all the best to Folger and Roman Empire. Though we are currently at war I have no ill will or feelings towards you and RE and have no problem working towards a positive relationship in the future.

2) Tiberius12 - Lies will only get you so far in this game and in life. You lied to me about the Frostbite issue, been spying on our forums for ages (and yes we have IP traces and matches), not to mention other issues.

You can't expect people to honor their words to you when you don't honor yours and lie to people. How do you expect someone to trust you when you have "managed to fool you and god knows how many other people for...well, for pretty much as long as I've been playing TE..."

3) To those that think Tib's is a bad leader and want to troll him they are sorely mistaken. I have no problem saying he's brilliant and cunning and RE did do well. He has his plans, did well with it for a while, but now he fell. The work that goes in building and leading alliance is no easy feat. RE and Tibs may no longer be a fit, but Tibs succeed in making RE strong. Folger is a smart leader and RE will move forward from this. And so will Tibs.

Thaisport

[dogbite]

thai spoke and it was good.thai you know me a bit and you know i dont trust tibs.but know he made a enmey of tpf and we will kill him.and when he changes his name i will find him and kill him again.

Edited October 4, 2009 by dogbite

[KingOfKinks]

All I have to say on this is that ABSOULTE power corrupts ABSOULTELY.

[Varianz]

thai spoke and it was good.thai you know me a bit and you know i dont trust tibs.but know he made a enmey of tpf and we will kill him.and when he changes his name i will find him and kill him again.

Terrifying. Coming from someone who's typing abilities are, to say the least, lacking, I am shaking in my (metaphorical) boots. Your inability to strategize your way out of a one-door room also contributes to my fear.

to be clear i never liked tibs.

The feelings is mutual, I assure you. You've always been a problem within TPF- unable to control your temper, unable to see the bigger picture.

To those that think Tib's is a bad leader and want to troll him they are sorely mistaken. I have no problem saying he's brilliant and cunning and RE did do well.

Thaisport

I think you should cut the rest out. Just my personal opinion .

All I have to say on this is that ABSOULTE power corrupts ABSOULTELY.

Speaking as someone who has been there, I can agree with that (me in Round 5 comes to mind).

Edited October 4, 2009 by Tiberius12

[Darklink7748]

All I have to say on this is that ABSOULTE power corrupts ABSOULTELY.

Not true. It merely depends on he who wields it. If he is greedy his actions will reflect that, if he is fair his actions will be so. I've had absolute power for a long period of time, and it never changed my views or actions one bit. Some people cannot handle it, simply put.

Edit: P.S. By sheer definition however, absolute power can never be corrupt. Since you have absolute power you define what corruption is, and have the ability to define all that you do un-corrupt. As a supreme authority it's impossible to be corrupt anyways.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Darklink7748

[KingOfKinks]

[02:31] <Tiberius12> people like Gabryal and Dog, their the Bishops and Rooks and Knights

[02:31] <Tiberius12> people like Thai and BG and I are the Queens

[02:31] <Tiberius12> and the kings are our reputations

[02:32] <Tiberius12> and our influence

[02:59] <Tiberius12> power is when people fear, love, or respect you enough to obey you

[02:59] <Tiberius12> power is the ability to bend things to your will

Make of it what you will.

[Darklink7748]

[02:31] <Tiberius12> people like Gabryal and Dog, their the Bishops and Rooks and Knights

[02:31] <Tiberius12> people like Thai and BG and I are the Queens

[02:31] <Tiberius12> and the kings are our reputations

[02:32] <Tiberius12> and our influence

[02:59] <Tiberius12> power is when people fear, love, or respect you enough to obey you

[02:59] <Tiberius12> power is the ability to bend things to your will

Make of it what you will.

That refutes nothing, my point still stands. Also, the chess analogy made me chuckle a bit.

[Infidel Israeli]

haha, entertaining

[Owned-You]

I chuckle at this entire situation...simply chuckle.

[lonewolfe2015]

I think what's funniest in this situation is Tiberius thought he was fooling everyone and was some sort of mastermind that no one was able to handle.

History will show otherwise

[Clash]

<Tiberius12> we can help Gabs and Wiz coup BG...they're much more amenable to our plans then he is

If this was an important part of your plan it was going to fail. This was not going to happen.

Wiz and Gabs are loyal to the core, and BG knows it - I imagine Folger knew it, too.

At the TPF forums, I believe just about every member of the Government has some type of Admin powers, with the exception of one: Burning Glory. It's not like this power is kept from him, he's just never asked for it or needed it. What needs to get done, gets done, without BG wanting or needing to look over anyone's shoulders. As always the bonds between members of TPF are not based on power, they are based on honor, friendship and trust. BG is fair and open-minded and he shares his power freely - to those he finds worthy of it. This makes BG one of the most un-coupable leaders in all of CN.

Here is a PM that was sent to many members of the TPF gov from Tibs:

To: ClashPoint From: Tiberius12 Date: 10/1/2009 9:09:37 PM

Subject: You guys hitting Frostbite

Message: Hey guys (CC'd this to Clash, BG, and Wiz). I'm talking to Gabs and Dog right now, and they inform me that you guys plan on hitting FB tomorrow night. We have 100% solid intel that FB is going to hit MHA tomorrow. That would be a perfect scenario for TPF and RE. We get the chance to grow in peace while FB and MHA knock each other down. We'd be in a much better position for rounds end. I'm asking you guys to call off your attack. We should meet on IRC to re-plan another scenario. Hope to hear from you.

Tiberius12

Since FB did not hit MHA, I'd say that either Tibs was lying or his intel is less than 100%. Since his plan was to get FB, MHA and TPF decimated, and without us hitting FB they don't get hit at all, I'd say the latter is more accurate. Just more evidence that this plan wasn't going to work. I'd guess Folger knew this as well, regardless of the dishonorable intentions of Tibs' plan. As more and more info on these events roll into this thread, the less and less likely Tibs's plan seems workable.

We'd been planning on hitting FB for about a week or so at this time. We were tired of fighting the same old groups every round, and FB looked like fun and good times. Originally Tibs wanted RE in on this war, but BG shot him down because we don't like curbstomps. We obviously turned Tibs down on this PM, too. It seems to me the main reason Tibs turned on TPF is because we wouldn't do what he wanted us to do. TPF just aren't infra-huggers, as apparently Tibs wanted RE to be.

One clear conclusion from these events: TPF is NO ONE'S lapdog.

I think we've proven this.

To all those commenting on these events being evidence of why Treaties are bad for TE, I would say that's not quite the right lesson to be learned here. All a treaty is, is an agreement (based on the honor of the participants to uphold it) between people who either trust each other or need each other. TPF, for one, has never "needed" RE, or anyone else, for anything. We trusted Tibs though for a while, and which turns out to have been a mistake. We still trust the other members of the RE government however - it would be silly to think our trust for Carp or Folger has gone anywhere but up after the revelations in the thread. Folger's honor has been proven 100% over by his actions, just as Tibs' lack of honor has been proven by his.

Many people believe that honor means nothing. I think it merely means these people are not honorable or trustworthy. Tibs is now in this category. I would now think that anyone trusting him, or thinking to find honorable dealings with him (OR an alliance he leads), is an idiot. Tibs is also willing to risk his alliance's welfare on large- scale plots and plans that are unlikely to work. These points alone cripple his dealings with not just other alliances, but within his own. His actions have already gotten PU, MHA and Fark to hit RE (now with no one to get RE's back), and many people to (unfairly) view RE as a whole as dishonorable - so how have they been good for RE? Since his plans were unlikely to work in the first place, and more likely fail miserably - how much good is Tibs for RE's future?

I will hope that the majority of RE members can see all of this for themselves.

In retrospect, on many levels, RE is better off without Tibs at the helm.

o/ Folger

o/ Carp

o/ RE

Edited October 4, 2009 by ClashPoint

[Lysander]

YOU BRUTUS! YOU JUDAS ISCARIOT! OH YOU TRAITOROUS WRETCH! YOU HAVE SEIZED POWER FOR YOURSELF! As you are Brutus so I am an Octavius, let the hell hounds rage and the dogs of war be loosed and all CRY HAVOC! Folger, you may have deposed what you think a Caesar, but you yourself have become like him in turn. As Caesar wanted power so Brutus did also. I denounce you as a traitor. I have read what Tiberius said and I do not believe you have the authority for this. I for one believe this game is all about power, power in Rome. Who shall seize that power? We shall see. You have fractured the Empire into two sides, but more will follow. Some will denounce you both as traitors and create their own factions of the Empire. IF ONLY YOU HAD CALLED A VOTE, A VOTE! ALAS! all is ruin and war. And we few true Romans must pick up the pieces. Tiberius may have been a deceiver. But you are the traitor, tell me which is worse. Curse you to Hades Brutus! May Caesar's ghost haunt you.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Tycho Silvanus Valerius

[Folger Soldier]

YOU BRUTUS! YOU JUDAS ISCARIOT! OH YOU TRAITOROUS WRETCH! YOU HAVE SEIZED POWER FOR YOURSELF! As you are Brutus so I am an Octavius, let the hell hounds rage and the dogs of war be loosed and all CRY HAVOC! Folger, you may have deposed what you think a Caesar, but you yourself have become like him in turn. As Caesar wanted power so Brutus did also. I denounce you as a traitor. I have read what Tiberius said and I do not believe you have the authority for this. I for one believe this game is all about power, power in Rome. Who shall seize that power? We shall see. You have fractured the Empire into two sides, but more will follow. Some will denounce you both as traitors and create their own factions of the Empire. IF ONLY YOU HAD CALLED A VOTE, A VOTE! ALAS! all is ruin and war. And we few true Romans must pick up the pieces. Tiberius may have been a deceiver. But you are the traitor, tell me which is worse. Curse you to Hades Brutus! May Caesar's ghost haunt you.

Well, you should know that Tiberius named me heir to the throne when he resigned. I was made Emperor by him and had the roll to do as I see fit for the Roman Empire... even if that meant sending Tibs packing.

A traitor to Tibs, yes, but never to the Roman Empire.

[Lysander]

Well, you should know that Tiberius named me heir to the throne when he resigned. I was made Emperor by him and had the roll to do as I see fit for the Roman Empire... even if that meant sending Tibs packing.

A traitor to Tibs, yes, but never to the Roman Empire.

You should at least have called a vote man! If you seize authority to do this than you are a traitor to the Empire. You must be ruled by the will of Rome, SENATUS POPULUSQUE ROMANUS!

[Lysander]

History will show this as a sad sad day for our Empire. The day it was rended in two by a struggle of tyrants.