Tryptamine Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm looking forward to seeing how this shapes up-- I'm glad to see a new dynamic appearing in the game, even if it does leave some of the former issues unaddressed. Early math made it seem like the lunar base was the way to go, hands down, but it sounds as though that may need reconsidering now... It's nice to have some optimization problems at hand again. Thanks to the gameplay team for the efforts here-- Dissent will always exist, but your time and considerations are appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesteut Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 One observation: These wonder's will actually benefit younger nations more than older nations. Since newer nations will mostly have less tech than older nations while having a similar infra, they will be able to get similar benefits with less base cost, meaning they can now close the gap. This used to be impossible due to the limit on foreign aid (tech younger nations can get), and frankly, even if there wasn't a limit on foreign aid and tech deals, older nations would just accelerate their tech advance, making it even more impossible for newer nations to catch up. Of course, if we aren't meant to be able to catch up, then... I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaciaut Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Why was potassium nerfed SO MUCH? :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc1701 Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 A little math for the Moon base based on my nation... Cost: 259m Revenue if always used at 100% efficiency: 276m I don't plan on buying any of these wonders unless the prices are reduced dramatically. I'de suggest either reducing the multiplier by a factor of 10 "50,000,000 + (300 * (Nation Strength - Technology Purchased * 2)" OR using tech as a divisor... "50,000,000 + (3,000 * ((Nation Strength* 1,000) / Technology Purchased)" Though using tech as a divisor could create huge differences between different nation builds, but for mine it would give a reasonable price about 83m total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sande Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I think you have to get at least 2 space wonders for them to pay off... Also, when you buy then and grow larger, your income will rise too. And a colony giving 6% population extra or whatever, could make it worth it. And the mine for collection/infra cost... Just the base is not useful. 2 or 3 or nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamlin Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 A little math for the Moon base based on my nation...Cost: 259m Revenue if always used at 100% efficiency: 276m I don't plan on buying any of these wonders unless the prices are reduced dramatically. I'de suggest either reducing the multiplier by a factor of 10 "50,000,000 + (300 * (Nation Strength - Technology Purchased * 2)" OR using tech as a divisor... "50,000,000 + (3,000 * ((Nation Strength* 1,000) / Technology Purchased)" Though using tech as a divisor could create huge differences between different nation builds, but for mine it would give a reasonable price about 83m total. It was already stated that the base is likely a break even wonder that is built only to allow access to the other 'better' wonders (specifically the mine). Although in the new changes mines are almost as expensive as the base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oktavia Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 So it would cost $825,000,000 for the Mars Base for me. Definitely not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer1557 Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Again, this benefits smaller nations a little more, since the minus 3-4% cost to infra purchase/upkeep, not only will buying more infra be cheaper, but you will gain more benefit out of the income boosts from the colony/mine/base. Larger nations will either not be able to purchase as much infra, or do not want to, and as such won't get as much benefit. I think this is a good thing. QUESTION: Will we be able to see the percentage efficiency we are at for our base/mine/colony, or will we just have to watch our income carefully and guess from that? Also, will the base, colony, and mine have to stay together or will we be able to move them separately (and possibly find the hotspot)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 So it would cost $825,000,000 for the Mars Base for me. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Taylor Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I don't really think these wonders were designed with any sort of target audience of player type in mind. the MP and WRC, ADP and MIC, AADN and SDI, each of these respective couple of wonders have their target nations, whether it's about creating nuclear supremacy, being an economic oddity, or building a defensive fortresses. Is the target nation for these new for any type of player? I think the closest thing you could get would be the massive RP community of CN.. Don't we have an area in the forums for that sort of ridiculous RPing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer1557 Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 It would only cost approximately 120 million for the moon base for me, considering how much I plan to grow over the course of 600 days I'd say that's a good deal, and I plan on buying it as soon as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeldor Posted July 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Hey ender, you should be careful with your 1 word posts, or you might get banned... Edited July 23, 2009 by steeldor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Question: If the base expires, but one still has a colony and/or a mine, how does that play out? Do they still work? If they fail, will there be a grace period, or does the space player have to plan in advance for that? Will there be a warning prior to the base's expiry? Will purchase of the base be required as the next wonder if there's a colony/mine? Or can a player choose to leave space without further ado? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamlin Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I don't really think these wonders were designed with any sort of target audience of player type in mind. the MP and WRC, ADP and MIC, AADN and SDI, each of these respective couple of wonders have their target nations, whether it's about creating nuclear supremacy, being an economic oddity, or building a defensive fortresses. Is the target nation for these new for any type of player? I think the closest thing you could get would be the massive RP community of CN.. Don't we have an area in the forums for that sort of ridiculous RPing? I think the target audience is nations with several billion lying around, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedestro Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 The bonus resources seem unbalanced if you ask me, they support the 7BR trade set up more than anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryptamine Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 The bonus resources seem unbalanced if you ask me, they support the 7BR trade set up more than anything That's not all bad. 7BR was pretty non-optimal as it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 well maybe one we see them in action I might feel differently but right now it looks like a fairly blatant attempt at a cash sink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryptamine Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Nothing wrong with a cash sink. Unless you're in a rogue for FAN-style situation, saving beyond a certain point is frivolous and excessive anyway. At lower levels, it doesn't make sense to purchase one of these, but that's why there are existing build orders for young nations to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adolf Von Sippycup Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I was so excited for these and then I realized it would cost me 454 Million to build just the Mars Base at my current state. And then add on the 395 Million for EACH of the wonders you can build after that. 1,244,000,000 for all three. And that's only if I don't do ANYTHING to raise my NS. And now I have to repeat the 790 Million every month to try and find the "hotspot". And that's only for these. You plan on adding more bull like this? Not worth it ever. Not even when I've reached the point when I can't buy anything else. While I'm on the topic of the "hotspot" what the hell is the point of making it every month? I can only build ONE Wonder a month. If I have to pull my Wonders down to move them to a new location isn't that just wasting my Wonder slot? How the hell am I supposed to move 2 Wonders to the "Hotspot" if I can only use one Wonder slot? Such a disappointment, I was really looking forward to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 So it would cost $825,000,000 for the Mars Base for me. Definitely not worth it. No. I get your Mars Base cost coming in at $497million, not $825. QUESTION: Will we be able to see the percentage efficiency we are at for our base/mine/colony, or will we just have to watch our income carefully and guess from that? Also, will the base, colony, and mine have to stay together or will we be able to move them separately (and possibly find the hotspot)? Here is admins nation map (using for testing): http://www.cybernations.net/national_wonde...p;Location=Mars As you can see they are separate and you can move them around to help you chase the hotspot. You as an outsider can't see the efficiency, but the owner can see it. By clicking on the wonders you can see information such as the size of the colony, mine resource, days till expiry, date moved etc. Question: If the base expires, but one still has a colony and/or a mine, how does that play out? Do they still work? If they fail, will there be a grace period, or does the space player have to plan in advance for that? Will there be a warning prior to the base's expiry? Will purchase of the base be required as the next wonder if there's a colony/mine? Or can a player choose to leave space without further ado? They still work, you just can't build any more wonders unless you rebuild your base first. If you don't want to rebuild your Base, you can leave the Colony and Mine there until they expire. You can see how long your Wonders have before they expire on your map (check admins map above). The bonus resources seem unbalanced if you ask me, they support the 7BR trade set up more than anything That's not all bad. 7BR was pretty non-optimal as it was. Bingo. The Moon mine is geared more to boost less optimal standard resources. Mars Mine is geared more to boost less optimal trade sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I was so excited for these and then I realized it would cost me 454 Million to build just the Mars Base at my current state. And then add on the 395 Million for EACH of the wonders you can build after that. 1,244,000,000 for all three. And that's only if I don't do ANYTHING to raise my NS. And now I have to repeat the 790 Million every month to try and find the "hotspot". And that's only for these. You plan on adding more bull like this? Not worth it ever. Not even when I've reached the point when I can't buy anything else.While I'm on the topic of the "hotspot" what the hell is the point of making it every month? I can only build ONE Wonder a month. If I have to pull my Wonders down to move them to a new location isn't that just wasting my Wonder slot? How the hell am I supposed to move 2 Wonders to the "Hotspot" if I can only use one Wonder slot? Such a disappointment, I was really looking forward to this. The current cost to move a wonder is quite small in relation to the setup, it costs just NS * 10 to move. (Also, you can move your wonder up to every 7 days). So for you that is only ~582k to move each wonder, you don't have to 'pull them down' to rebuild, you just drag them across your map and pay a fee for doing it. My calc on your nation brings the cost of the base in at $415mill, (not $454) and the cost of the others in at 363mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adolf Von Sippycup Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 The current cost to move a wonder is quite small in relation to the setup, it costs just NS * 10 to move. (Also, you can move your wonder up to every 7 days).So for you that is only ~582k to move each wonder, you don't have to 'pull them down' to rebuild, you just drag them across your map and pay a fee for doing it. My calc on your nation brings the cost of the base in at $415mill, (not $454) and the cost of the others in at 363mill. Thank you for answering my question and I just realized what I was doing wrong in my calculations. What I don't get is it seems like you're trying to kill two birds with one stone. On one hand it seems that with these ridiculous prices you're trying to give the people who don't have anything to do but save up money something to do. But then again you seem to be trying to fix the problem of people with less than desired resources. The problem I see is that people still won't want these resources because they have to spend an insane amount of money to make them remotely good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drai Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) How much will it cost to roll for a new resource when you move, or is that still undetermined? Edited July 23, 2009 by Drai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Thank you for answering my question and I just realized what I was doing wrong in my calculations.What I don't get is it seems like you're trying to kill two birds with one stone. On one hand it seems that with these ridiculous prices you're trying to give the people who don't have anything to do but save up money something to do. But then again you seem to be trying to fix the problem of people with less than desired resources. The problem I see is that people still won't want these resources because they have to spend an insane amount of money to make them remotely good. It's more about balance. We are trying to make the wonders expensive for everyone, (unlike other wonders which are very expensive comparitively for some, but lunch money for bigger nations). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxley Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 How much will it cost to roll for a new resource when you move, or is that still undetermined? I'm not sure if that one is finalised as yet. I think the tentative cost was NS * 100 but don't quote me on that. I believe you may get a 'free move' if you roll for a new resource as well, eg, the move will cost NS * 10, then you will have an option to re-roll, for * 10 of the move cost (essentially NS * 100). but again, don't quote me on that just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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