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Will NPO's membership revolt?


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Will NPO's membership revolt?  

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Has KARMA proved otherwise when it contradicts itself daily, is incapable of meeting its own "moral" compass and can hold to an idea for once?

Please state exactly what you mean and back this up with some examples.

Ones with links prefferably.

EDIT: Also, I do not think that the membership will revolt or change in any way. But if any Pacificans have any sense they will throw out the current emperor for dragging them headlong into a battle they were unable to win to begin with.

Edited by ShinRa
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There will be no revolt, there will be no coup. Join the NPO and see for yourself how many levels of hierarchy they build. Lots of folks have something to lose if there was something as chaotic as a revolt or even a coup. It is why they have someone set up to replace the top dog. Because in times of need they can make a grand procession of a new emperor taking over which is supposed to symbolize a new Order even though in this case the next emperor is one of the current emperor's Imperial Officers.

It is all about the show and they know how to make the show a success internally.

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For what I can gather from your post, Penlugue Solaris, you have just affirmed that absolute facts are those that I choose to believe in? You have just say that it depends on who says it?

There is no such thing as an absolute fact. Everything varies based off of your opinion on it, and anything can be skewed to mean basically anything. What we try to do is take the information from the people who we believe to be the most trustworthy. For me and most of CN, it is those statistics of Gremlins that are believable. For you all in NPO, you believe in the statistics that have somehow been produced by your government. I do not believe that all of of what was said by Gremlins is true, but it doesn't serve their interests to lie in any way shape or form. So, I assume that their math is relatively correct. However, for Pacifica, what you are saying does have a reason to be manipulated because it serves your interests to.

So, by evolving your idea, a thing is a lie or a truth based solely in what you want to believe?

Good gracious God! And I spent this many years under the impression that there were universal truths...

Then you are a fool. People do not always believe things for the most part because they are true, but because of their own personal bias. We see this with NPO's belief in your statistics over the statistics from Gremlins. You will believe in what you want to believe, and you believe that is the truth.

Truth is about perception.

Wait, what the $%&@?

Did you just say that the facts are correct depending on who submitted them? Seriously?

No, I said that NPO has a reasoning to submit "facts". By "facts", I mean manipulated information to serve your interests.

Edited by Penlugue Solaris
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Wait, what the $%&@?

Did you just say that the facts are correct depending on who submitted them? Seriously?

It is clear that NPO has everything to gain by making everyone believe you can't pay it, or say your nations will be crushed for a good amount of time whereas Gre obviously has no interest in the matter.

The thing is, Karma already gave you the appropriate numbers and those have not been refuted by NPO. (At least from my perspective.)

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*snip*

You fail to see that not only you change your speech everyday, but the propaganda machine behind you changes with it and you don't even notice or openly enter denial...

*snip*

What are you talking about? They're at war with Eurasia, because Eurasia is a threat to them. The forces of Eastasia will always be there to oppress all those who do not stand up and that's why they fight them.

Now, why do you think a coup will actually solve anything? As I recall, (before my time, so I'm going by what's been said/written) there was a coup before and Ivan left. NPO was still seen as the bad guy. Why would the members of the Order even attempt to believe that a coup would do anything to benefit them, other than as desperate power struggle, which would only serve to further endanger the Order and all the member-states that comprise her. So, to answer your question, No.

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It is clear that NPO has everything to gain by making everyone believe you can't pay it, or say your nations will be crushed for a good amount of time whereas Gre obviously has no interest in the matter.

The thing is, Karma already gave you the appropriate numbers and those have not been refuted by NPO. (At least from my perspective.)

This got a good chuckle out of me, thanks.

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This got a good chuckle out of me, thanks.

Please, explain GRE's interest in this matter.

They aren't at war with you, and they are against high reparations for the most part.

Now, please explain the manipulated ideals you have that lead you to believe GRE has a reason going for them to lie to hurt you, so we may amuse ourselves as well :)

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It is clear that NPO has everything to gain by making everyone believe you can't pay it, or say your nations will be crushed for a good amount of time whereas Gre obviously has no interest in the matter.

The thing is, Karma already gave you the appropriate numbers and those have not been refuted by NPO. (At least from my perspective.)

Do you even notice the fallacies in what you are saying? Anything we give to you is automatically wrong, because we're "biased"?

Seriously, this line of thought is really an Ad-Hominem argument, and that kind of thing is never logical.

None of the numbers offered by either side have ever been seriously refuted as using incorrect mathematical models. Do you know why? Because they are using different base data. Your conclusions are only as correct as the inputs you use to arrive to them.

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For all your speculation (and by your I mean the general community of Bob's) about those who speak up get hammered down... sorry, but no. You have no idea what Pacifica is really like. All you have is your biased opinion of us.

That, and I can't vote yet since I've not received today's newsletter telling me all the opinions I'm supposed to have today.

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For all your speculation (and by your I mean the general community of Bob's) about those who speak up get hammered down... sorry, but no. You have no idea what Pacifica is really like. All you have is your biased opinion of us.

That, and I can't vote yet since I've not received today's newsletter telling me all the opinions I'm supposed to have today.

What about those of that were once apart of the community. ;)

In any case, NPO is essentially coup proof. Internally it's impossible and externally it wouldn't be accepted by the membership. The worse that could possibly happen is a bleed of members that are not loyal to their alliance.

Edited by Voodoo Nova
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For all your speculation (and by your I mean the general community of Bob's) about those who speak up get hammered down... sorry, but no. You have no idea what Pacifica is really like. All you have is your biased opinion of us.

That, and I can't vote yet since I've not received today's newsletter telling me all the opinions I'm supposed to have today.

Hammered down? Maybe not, but they certainly cannot rise up and they are certainly not going to be "popular" with the upper ranks of which a majority of the population in NPO wish to be on good terms with. It does indeed have shades of resemblance as a cult of personality. Do not fall out of favor with those at the top of that cult else those lower will not favor you either.

The NPO runs those out who do not fully follow the party line with hostility and not with direct banishment.

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For all your speculation (and by your I mean the general community of Bob's) about those who speak up get hammered down... sorry, but no. You have no idea what Pacifica is really like. All you have is your biased opinion of us.

That, and I can't vote yet since I've not received today's newsletter telling me all the opinions I'm supposed to have today.

yes you have! You forgot to check the brainwashing forum today.

Lord Of Destruction

You are hereby authorized to vote "No" in the poll. Any action to vote yes will result in strict disciplining.

Your allowed thoughts for today: "I love the NPO." "The NPO is Perfect." "We are winning the war!" "Karma will be just as bad as they say we were."

You may not think any other thoughts, any posts contrary to that effect will be deleted.

Your next brainwashing session is tomorrow at 12:45 PM.

Seriously, yall have a twisted view of how the NPO operates.

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Do you even notice the fallacies in what you are saying? Anything we give to you is automatically wrong, because we're "biased"?

Seriously, this line of thought is really an Ad-Hominem argument, and that kind of thing is never logical.

I never said your numbers are automatically wrong just because you're NPO. Just that you have everything to gain by trying to convince others of the way you paint things. Gre however is neutral in this matter and can therefore voice their opinion without any accusation of being biased.

None of the numbers offered by either side have ever been seriously refuted as using incorrect mathematical models. Do you know why? Because they are using different base data. Your conclusions are only as correct as the inputs you use to arrive to them.

I will not debate the reps terms in public, this has already been done multiple times, all I will say is that I disagree with NPO's story.

Edited by Tromp
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Seriously, yall have a twisted view of how the NPO operates.

You are right, some seriously don't know and their view of the NPO from the outside sometimes to me is similiar to a dream state vision. It is not quite based in reality.

Since you said "yall" that could mean you are referring to me though and that would not be true muff.

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Since they have a large bureaucracy, and since they would have to depose their entire system of IOs to get a material change, I don't think there is enough governmental irresponsibility to start a revolution.

You have no idea what Pacifica is really like. All you have is your biased opinion of us.

There are plenty of ex-Pacificans who confirm the impression that one gets from reading Pacifican posts on these boards. Even now you see people posting to say that the war was not NPO's fault, that NPO was attacked, even that the war was planned and executed specifically to take NPO down.

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I'm waiting on my text message from Moo on how to vote on this poll. He keeps trying to send but his hooves are so big he keeps sending unintelligible messages.

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I never said your numbers are automatically wrong just because you're NPO. Just that you have everything to gain by trying to convince others of the way you paint things. Gre however is neutral in this matter and can therefore voice their opinion without any accusation of being biased.

So you're not saying it, you're just implying it. Everything is fine then.

I will not debate the reps terms in public, this has already been done multiple times, all I will say is that I disagree with NPO's story.

You've never freaking "debated" the terms in public. Two sides present different data, and your "argument" always boils down to "Well, I don't believe your assumptions" and "Well, we'll change it in the end anyway" within 3 posts.

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I'm waiting on my text message from Moo on how to vote on this poll. He keeps trying to send but his hooves are so big he keeps sending unintelligible messages.

It's your job to tell people how to vote, you must have missed the memo where he delegated that to you.

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I never said your numbers are automatically wrong just because you're NPO. Just that you have everything to gain by trying to convince others of the way you paint things. Gre however is neutral in this matter and can therefore voice their opinion without any accusation of being biased.

I will not debate the reps terms in public, this has already been done multiple times, all I will say is that I disagree with NPO's story.

Neutral ideally and by definition would be an alliance that did not take any part during the whole of the conflict.

Edited by shahenshah
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Since they have a large bureaucracy, and since they would have to depose their entire system of IOs to get a material change, I don't think there is enough governmental irresponsibility to start a revolution.

There are plenty of ex-Pacificans who confirm the impression that one gets from reading Pacifican posts on these boards. Even now you see people posting to say that the war was not NPO's fault, that NPO was attacked, even that the war was planned and executed specifically to take NPO down.

I don't need someone to tell me what I see CONFIRMED in posts by our enemies, but whatever :)

As for voting I must wait for that information to be determined and passed down. I do not compute free choice

/sarcasm off

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It's your job to tell people how to vote, you must have missed the memo where he delegated that to you.

No no no, you have it wrong! Bilrow is not one of those IMPERIAL LACKEYS that needs to tell us all how to think, Enderland.

Really... You guys haven't considered that perhaps we like who and what we are? Have you?

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It's your job to tell people how to vote, you must have missed the memo where he delegated that to you.

That's not in my job description.

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