CNRP OOC Thread

[King Kevz]

Here is my thoughts on Tech Sharing/Merging

I don't have any problems with sharing tech with other nations as it can and does happen in the real world however, I do have a problem with how it is handled.

You see when a nation shares its technology with another nation at the moment it is handled instantly which is very unrealistic as everyone knows it takes time to be able to study and learn to use the new technology whereas in CNRP as soon as someone shares or merges the technology they know instantly how to use it and that needs sorting out in my opinion. It should take at least a few months to be able to get to grips with the new technology and not to mention the training the soldiers/people will need.

Of course this all stems from the problem that their is no fixed time system which means whilst one person could be invading in one thread over a course of weeks another could have made a technology advancement in a matter of months whilst the war is being fought.

Anyway thats my two cents disect at will

[Triyun]

I disagree on point 3 for merged nations. My part of the nation really would not lose strength as we merged down, however, when RPing apple's divisions they really would not instantly move to my level of development, neither would Merger's. If you think about it realistically and even if you wanna use Germany as an example, West Germany's technological development was not severely retarded by the East merging in. However, the East never has completely adapted to the West.

Furthermore going to average doesn't make sense, because the proportion each nation contributes is not even. I contribute the most land, the most infrastructure, and the most tech to our arrangement. Applesauce contributes the least land, the least infrastructure, and the least tech. You aren't averaging two even sized countries.

In my view, the best arrangement here would be to have the divisions from the smaller nations use the tech sharing formula for x period of time.

Really having merged nations do this retroactively is kinda unfair. I agree tech combining has always been wrong and 2 out of the 3 of us never once did that. However, if you average the armies, when we let in little nations we really weaken the whole dramatically when those little nations make up a very low percentage of total infra and land. This would totally obscure the average and weaken us by decisions we would not have made otherwise.

It is akin to saying the US absorbed Cuba and we are averaging the GDP between the two countries.

Edited December 27, 2008 by Triyun

[Il Terra Di Agea]

Rule number 4 is definitely not fair to those who sell tech. They will constantly be rping a decline and rise. I rule number 4 needs to be revised, to removed that rp levels down.

Unless, that is, they went from like, 10,000 to 0 tech, or something with less exaggeration.

As someone who bought my own tech, before I became a tech seller, I agree to this 100%

[Triyun]

My proposal for dealing with merged nations, I think is more fair, though a bit more complex.

Because merged nations should be stronger than the sum of their parts and generally the nation with the highest tech contributes at least a plurality of strength to the nation where the smallest nation which would drag down the average contributes a much lower percentage of total NS would drag down the average, I think this would be a fairer system and reflect the greater integration the militaries would have as a unified force.

First each group is required to maintain an information thread.

Top Nation: Fields whatever military forces it can field in game just like a normal nation, in the U.F.E. that would be me. I would define what these divisions are by giving them a specific name in the thread.

Below me are the other nations Merger and Applesauce. They would have access to the tech sharing formula defined here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...p;#entry1077810 This formula would guide how strong the forces that they contribute to the nation are.

I feel this is a much fairer way than straight averaging for reasons already talked about, larger nations in the merger contribute more to infrastructure and land.

Edited December 27, 2008 by Triyun

[Epiphanus]

Why not let them take the tech of the larger nation? In someone's example they said US and Cuba merging and taking an average, in the same scenario, if the US and Cuba merged today (however unlikely that would be) they would take the US's technology. Because the US has more technology (I'm making an assumption here).

Adding them together wouldn't make sense because cuba wouldn't have "500" technology that the US doesn't already have in its 2000. It would maybe have 5 that wasn't in the US's 2000. We RP the tech as being equivalent to years of time developed. My nation having 3000+ tech is around 2020 or so. Why would me, merging with a nation who is still in 1954, not have any technology that the smaller tech nation has?

I think if we use the Tech:Year system, then the tech that the larger nation has should be the tech. No adding, no averaging, just the farthest advanced nation's tech is adopted by the merge.

[LeVentNoir]

<snip>

So the only change in a merged nation to the RP thing is that the smaller nations have to tech share with the bigger one, and thats it. They still control their proportion of the the army, and act pretty much like an independent nation in all but name?

Epiphanus to answer you, admin has said that in the game, it not only represents you level of tech, but your amount. So, if you take a nation with lots, merge it with a nation with not so much, the total amount is going to average out.

[Triyun]

So the only change in a merged nation to the RP thing is that the smaller nations have to tech share with the bigger one, and thats it. They still control their proportion of the the army, and act pretty much like an independent nation in all but name?

Epiphanus to answer you, admin has said that in the game, it not only represents you level of tech, but your amount. So, if you take a nation with lots, merge it with a nation with not so much, the total amount is going to average out.

Well, in the case of the UFE for example, yes I would control the whole nation. But a certain percentage of my soldiers would be at Triyunican combat levels. That being the amount of forces that Triyunica can field in combat. There would be a certain percentage at Merger levels, and there would be a certain percentage and Guardsville and Kahikilan levels.

How I would RP it is the Triyunican Army is considered the forward combat army, the Merger army are high level reserve battalions, and the smaller nations are paramilitary forces and irregulars.

So to illustrate:

Triyunica can field about 1.4 million men at arms in mobilization, so when we are at war the top field divisions are not too exceed this number.

Behind these divisions at full mobilization are however much Merger can fields, these units are his quality plus the tech bonus he shares with me.

Behind these divisions at full mobilization are what Guardsville and Kahikila can field plus tech bonuses. These units are the worst quality.

Should the UFE ever come to full mobilization there would be a limit too how much advanced military hardware it could field. All these units are under the command of the UFE Emperor, but only some are as good as the Triyunican military force. This way you get some tech advantage and the unification of command that a single country implies, but you still reflect that certain provinces within that country have not achieved the same level of economic development.

[Mirreille]

You know the question that has never been asked so far I think is should merged nations be allowed in the first place? I'm not talking about the RP aspects of doing it, I mean in the terms of the tech sharing, and maybe to a limited degree the infra sharing parts of it. It seems like the only reason to do it, is to gain some form of advantage over those who don't.

The suggestion made by Triyun isn't bad at all, but I don't see why a merged nation should get an advantage like that, while some people who are against tech sharing go so far as to want to prevent sales of higher tech toys to lower tech nations. I really don't mind the selling of things, most people seem to handle them without going overboard, and if you have a real problem with it you can just say that even though they have that top-of-the-line gear they can't use it to full effectiveness, or just don't recognise that person's RP. I'd much rather try to keep things limited by common sense then some hard and fast rule.

[LeVentNoir]

You know the question that has never been asked so far I think is should merged nations be allowed in the first place? I'm not talking about the RP aspects of doing it, I mean in the terms of the tech sharing, and maybe to a limited degree the infra sharing parts of it. It seems like the only reason to do it, is to gain some form of advantage over those who don't.

The suggestion made by Triyun isn't bad at all, but I don't see why a merged nation should get an advantage like that, while some people who are against tech sharing go so far as to want to prevent sales of higher tech toys to lower tech nations. I really don't mind the selling of things, most people seem to handle them without going overboard, and if you have a real problem with it you can just say that even though they have that top-of-the-line gear they can't use it to full effectiveness, or just don't recognise that person's RP. I'd much rather try to keep things limited by common sense then some hard and fast rule.

This is a good point, and I, for one am against them. Merged nations should only be allowed if you can only control what parts you contributed to the merge. (With the tech share bonus). This stops nations taking control of forces they would otherwise be unable to use.

[Subtleknifewielder]

I favor a combination of two and three. Stats should be reflected in the RP, but if you use what you have well, and make a few smart purchases here and there, you can do some decent things. You don't need fancy spider mechs (which even if were possible to make, I doubt they'd stand up well against a few tanks. They couldn't possibly be that effective) to do things. Remember, just because something looks cool doesn't mean it'll work.

Well, I Rp'd spider-mechs once, though I think I did them fairly realistically. They weren't physically as powerful as a tank, even (they only had some high-caliber machine-guns), but they were much faster and could cover more types of terrain than any tank could ever hope to.

[Stormcrow]

I'd like to add the following information to the dialogue:

1. If a nation gets rolled IG, he shouldn't have to pay for it in the RP. It's as simple as that.

2. MercyFallout is now a Game Master; so all those lovely continuity violations and crazy posts? Mercy, it's all yours.

[Lynneth]

Triyunica can field about 1.4 million men at arms in mobilization, so when we are at war the top field divisions are not too exceed this number.

A small question:

Since when can you, with less infrastructure than me, field more soldiers than me?

If you're using the modified soldiers and not the real amount (which is roughly civilian population*0.8), then I kindly ask you to use the proper amount of 0.8*civilian population, like everyone else.

[Sargun II]

A small question:

Since when can you, with less infrastructure than me, field more soldiers than me?

If you're using the modified soldiers and not the real amount (which is roughly civilian population*0.8), then I kindly ask you to use the proper amount of 0.8*civilian population, like everyone else.

I believe he's using the combined total of all the merged nations.

[Stormcrow]

Changing the Topic Real Quick:

No OOC References in News Reports without an OOC tag, right?

Well, Sargun has brought up an old rule that says you can bring up game mechanics in News Reports, but that hardly makes sense innasmuch as N.R. is the only place real IC ever happens in CN.

Thoughts?

[HHAYD]

Please remove my CNRP nation from the map, I have just surrendered to Lubeck, Nova Imperium, and Dellian Empire.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...60&start=60

[Sumeragi]

MercyFallout is now a Game Master; so all those lovely continuity violations and crazy posts? Mercy, it's all yours.

Way to go Mercy!

[LeVentNoir]

1. If a nation gets rolled IG, he shouldn't have to pay for it in the RP. It's as simple as that.

Which is why I asked for a amendment of MVs tech guideline #4, and I wish that the data base accurately maintained.

EDIT:

Lynneth, he goes on 10x efficentcy, i asked him last nigh.

And on game mechanics, keep them out of IC, and PM are OOC unless stated IC.

Edited December 28, 2008 by LeVentNoir

[Lynneth]

I believe he's using the combined total of all the merged nations.

Triyunica can field about 1.4 million men at arms in mobilization, so when we are at war the top field divisions are not too exceed this number.

Behind these divisions at full mobilization are however much Merger can fields, these units are his quality plus the tech bonus he shares with me.

Behind these divisions at full mobilization are what Guardsville and Kahikila can field plus tech bonuses. These units are the worst quality.

Top field divisions are not to exceed 1.4 million.

After that, Merger and the others come, from what I understand. But I'd like Triyun to clarify that.

Because in that case, I'll just use the mod too if Triyun refuses to change.

>>Lynneth, he goes on 10x efficentcy, i asked him last nigh.

10x the modificated soldiers? Okay, then I kindly ask him to not use that.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Lynneth

[Sumeragi]

I believe Triyun meant top FIELDED divisions, meaning total soldiers field from regular and reserves.

[LeVentNoir]

Here is a question:

Sumeragi said she evacuated DKT to several countries. This is fine. Since these countries allow exit to other foreign countries, and no force was RP'd as stopping them, is it possible to RP a small number of DKT citizens coming to your country? I am talking about a dozen.

And just a note, form 50,000,000 evacuated, even with 99.9% obedience to stay in the country where they were evacuated to, that is still 50,000 people that would not obey

This is a case of common sense, logic and human nature vs a RPs will.

[Lynneth]

I believe Triyun meant top FIELDED divisions, meaning total soldiers field from regular and reserves.

If that is so, then I'd like confirmation from Triyun himself. Nobody is able to answer my question as well as he.

Here is a question:

Sumeragi said she evacuated DKT to several countries. This is fine. Since these countries allow exit to other foreign countries, and no force was RP'd as stopping them, is it possible to RP a small number of DKT citizens coming to your country? I am talking about a dozen.

And just a note, form 50,000,000 evacuated, even with 99.9% obedience to stay in the country where they were evacuated to, that is still 50,000 people that would not obey

This is a case of common sense, logic and human nature vs a RPs will.

Unfortunately for Sumeragi, I must agree with LVN. Some dozen people could easily appear somewhere on the world, be it the middle of a jungle or a modern nation like Rockport.

[Triyun]

LVN is correct, its by Efficiency, I've always RPed by efficiency and so has everyone I've foughten. I could see an argument to be made for efficiency means more skill soldiers but if that was the case, you still have the issue of everyone saying their soldiers are super awesome and then you get into OOC arguments. To me efficiency equalling numbers seems the simplest way to reflect military wonders in the RP.

[Sargun II]

Efficiency?

Sweet, I have hundreds of thousands of more soldiers, yippee

[Mirreille]

LVN is correct, its by Efficiency, I've always RPed by efficiency and so has everyone I've foughten. I could see an argument to be made for efficiency means more skill soldiers but if that was the case, you still have the issue of everyone saying their soldiers are super awesome and then you get into OOC arguments. To me efficiency equalling numbers seems the simplest way to reflect military wonders in the RP.

See, now I am confused. I thought soldiers was based on your maximum troops possible at your infrastructure, with that 10 X multiple. So what are you using, 10 x efficiency, for all the nations combined in UFE? I'm not complaining, I just want to know how you are calculationg things.

Also, regarding the DKT citizens, that makes sense. Even when Katrina hit New Orleans, there were thousands of people who didn't leave.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Mirreille

[Triyun]

I'm not sure... a lot. I don't see why we shouldn't use efficiency, when you go to full and total mobilization (geurilla camps) its a way to recruit more people. The way I view it in RP if you construct the improvements and wonders that give you greater efficiency you are paying the economic cost for a higher mobilized army.