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      Cyber Nations Forum Rules   07/03/2016

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AlmightyGrub

Imperial Decree - New Polar Order

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5 hours ago, The Zigur said:

The reasonable position would have been to not attack ISX at all. However, relative to Terminator, Grub is open to reason. And reason dictates that policies like EZI and gag orders create more problems than they solved. I really have no position to bargain from and solely rely on reason to guide Polar away from the irrational dictates of those like Terminator.

 

As to ISX being attacked, the alliance has suffered massive infrastructure losses that will amount to untold billions in warchest and revenue losses. There's no rational purpose in fighting high-tech EMP turtles unnecessarily, which makes this peace agreement possible despite threats of a longer-term war.

 

The reasonable thing would have been to prevent you from returning from your little ghost expedition when they had the chance, when they were advised to do so.  Then none of this occurs.

 

As for the rest of your dribble, I spoke to Galerion in the first week of the war and told him exactly what my intentions were and what the outcome would be.  There was never a threat of extended war, the performance of iSX had absolutely zero impact on my decisions and we could not actually give a !@#$ about ''high-tech'' EMP turtles in this or any other war. 

 

Polar is not afraid of losing ''stuff'' to win a war.  You need to dispel these myths from your mind.  Nations with very low infra - high tech ratios are really cool and all but they can not win wars, only make them more costly post the fist week.  It is really cool for your nation to be at or close to ZI every day, without a Navy and pretty much shooting off one nuke per day until they run out... if you are into that sort of thing.  If iSX wants to fight like that they are more than welcome to.  Imagine if you will that we stay at war for another 3 weeks, they still have ZI, their tech is being smashed to bits by Battle Supported EMP nukes and they have run out of nukes, have to rebuy infra every day to buy more only for them to sail towards the SDI wall.  Sure some get through, but we have enough nukes to keep pounding until the war ends.  After a while you just forget to log in and hope that someone lets you escape to PM.

 

A solid plan?  Or would it not be better to cease being a target of opportunity by getting rid of the one thing that over and over has caused that alliance to be at war?  Someone should have told them after the first war they lost that you were a problem that would keep dragging them down, but it appears any attempts were drowned out by the drums of your personal victory parade.  You know the one where you awarded yourself Hero of the Imperium medals, enough to fill your shirt and trousers, all whilst vocally masturbating about your great leadership and glorious reign.  I always found it ironic that an alliance who never won a single war would dance so happily around the bonfire of loss and miss the opportunity to burn an effigy of you.

 

Well done glorious leader Junkalunka, you can do no further harm to these poor people.

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While I did actually command a few victorious expeditions, I never had the goal of beating down other alliances. My goal was to create an alliance culture that was resistant to the barbarism seen abroad, that rejected unnecessary violence and championed philosophy and free thinking. 

 

I have always wandered the ruins of a far greater Empire, hoping to re-establish the past, even as I try to guide thinking towards the future. Being a target of aggression however is not anything new to me.

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5 hours ago, The Zigur said:

While I did actually command a few victorious expeditions, I never had the goal of beating down other alliances. My goal was to create an alliance culture that was resistant to the barbarism seen abroad, that rejected unnecessary violence and championed philosophy and free thinking. 

 

I have always wandered the ruins of a far greater Empire, hoping to re-establish the past, even as I try to guide thinking towards the future. Being a target of aggression however is not anything new to me.

 

You will be guiding no one in their thinking towards the future.  You can not even deal with the past or the present.  You can wander naked around the whole planet, but the reality is there is no golden age to come, only war, preparation for war and the end.  It truly can not come fast enough.

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1 hour ago, AlmightyGrub said:

 

You will be guiding no one in their thinking towards the future.  You can not even deal with the past or the present.  You can wander naked around the whole planet, but the reality is there is no golden age to come, only war, preparation for war and the end.  It truly can not come fast enough.

 

I think that is an unfortunate thing to believe. It would be different were I running things. Because I take more joy in building than in destroying.

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8 hours ago, The Zigur said:

While I did actually command a few victorious expeditions, I never had the goal of beating down other alliances. My goal was to create an alliance culture that was resistant to the barbarism seen abroad, that rejected unnecessary violence and championed philosophy and free thinking. 

 

I have always wandered the ruins of a far greater Empire, hoping to re-establish the past, even as I try to guide thinking towards the future. Being a target of aggression however is not anything new to me.

 

Actually you created a culture that is resistant to reality. From my conversations with many of the ISX members, their beliefs are very insular and cult-like. Most do not come on OWF, they aren't on discord, and they don't know how you act. They hear only your lies and rhetoric.

 

Great job on creating a cult.... too bad for you that the head has been cut off

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18 minutes ago, MaineGOP said:

 

Actually you created a culture that is resistant to reality. From my conversations with many of the ISX members, their beliefs are very insular and cult-like. Most do not come on OWF, they aren't on discord, and they don't know how you act. They hear only your lies and rhetoric.

 

Great job on creating a cult.... too bad for you that the head has been cut off

 

Yeah well don't expect people to love a shill that's in an alliance attacking them I guess. You can blather on about "lies" and "rhetoric" yet you are so eager to play the propagandist that you resort to these yourself.

 

Maybe in your obnoxious obsession with me you are missing the part where my arguments are actually based on sound logic rather than personally attacking the messenger.

Edited by The Zigur

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13 hours ago, The Zigur said:

 

Yeah well don't expect people to love a shill that's in an alliance attacking them I guess. You can blather on about "lies" and "rhetoric" yet you are so eager to play the propagandist that you resort to these yourself.

 

Maybe in your obnoxious obsession with me you are missing the part where my arguments are actually based on sound logic rather than personally attacking the messenger.

 

I think you resort to this line of deflection way too often.  ''I am the messenger of truth and life'' is of your own creation.  Your theories and assertions are just that, yours.  You can argue until the cows come home about these assertions but they have been soundly rejected by anyone who bothers to read them.

 

People attack you and your arguments because your ideas are seen entirely as an extension of your fruit cake existence.  Fresh from failure after failure, you front up to tell the world how you could do it better when the demonstrated track record you present is of constant self-promotion, lack of comprehension of your own circumstance and status and of course insular  xenophobic cult like attitudes towards anyone who would dare question your mediocre (at best) qualifications to rule the world.

 

Perhaps you can dismiss everyone who puts !@#$ on you every time you post, it is easy to see you are not respected by many, but surely the evidence that your schemes and plots fail time and time again should be evidence enough that you are done as a leader of anything.  Your last alliance, the one you invaded and took control of in a moment of opportunist crisis, has struggled for existence, let alone relevance, and even it has chosen to reject you as even a citizen.  All the evidence points one way and it isn't up.

 

As for the rest of my comments about the golden age, blind Freddy can see what is happening to Bob, the fact that you persist in believing in a dream that can never come true says as much about your ignorance as it does your naivety. 

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it's incredible that tywin is literally the only person ever that's right and everyone else is wrong and lying on purpose too

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20180501_145505.png

 

Grub.exe has stopped working :rolleyes:

 

Anyway, my ideas are not "soundly" rejected unless they are debated on the basis of their merit. You confuse material success with philosophy and your primary argument against my ideas is that I'm being successfully hounded by the hegemony. However, I am arguing against the premise of the current hegemony in the first place, therefore my personal material position is irrelevant beyond providing a partial motive for my words and actions.

 

I see you have latched onto Mihails somewhat on-point cult analogy and try to use it as a rhetorical weapon. However in reality the hegemony itself is also like a cult, one who's foundations I am vocally challenging. I plan to discuss this particular point further when i finish my essay about hegemonic influence on the Overton window.

 

It used to not be considered unusual for a personality to be a world leader one year and a fugitive the next, however it seems that I am simply one of the last such people around because everyone else gave up.

Edited by The Zigur

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On 5/1/2018 at 5:31 AM, The Zigur said:

While I did actually command a few victorious expeditions, I never had the goal of beating down other alliances. My goal was to create an alliance culture that was resistant to the barbarism seen abroad, that rejected unnecessary violence and championed philosophy and free thinking. 

 

I have always wandered the ruins of a far greater Empire, hoping to re-establish the past, even as I try to guide thinking towards the future. Being a target of aggression however is not anything new to me.

What is this "culture" that is so different from the other alliances? 

 

There is meeting place for members to record messages and for others to respond?

There are some regulars and a larger number of irregulars at this meeting place?

There are leaders with fancy tags at this meeting place?

People aid each other or sell their national resources?

Some folk talk too much, while some can't be arsed to open their mouth?

 

Wake up dolt. All you did was a me too.

 

 

Oh and if your own behaviour is something to go by, you can take the culture, and stuff it.

Edited by Helbrecht

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Do you really think the culture of every alliance is the same? Is culture comprised of the things you mentioned or something more?

 

The great thing about alliance sovereignty is that it allows people who are similar to forge those similarities into a larger theme. For the Imperium cultural values includes kindness, self-sacrifice, philosophy, freedom, endurance.

 

For a barbarian alliance, cultural values includes things like sociopathy, backstabbing, casualty worship, violence in response to free speech, and so forth. 

 

Polar seems closer to the latter these days. They will not give me peace, they will not let me be part of society. I have nothing better to do for the next few months than to post content and wait in peacemode until Polar starts another war of aggression down the road.

 

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1 hour ago, The Zigur said:

Do you really think the culture of every alliance is the same? Is culture comprised of the things you mentioned or something more?

 

The great thing about alliance sovereignty is that it allows people who are similar to forge those similarities into a larger theme. For the Imperium cultural values includes kindness, self-sacrifice, philosophy, freedom, endurance.

 

For a barbarian alliance, cultural values includes things like sociopathy, backstabbing, casualty worship, violence in response to free speech, and so forth. 

 

Polar seems closer to the latter these days. They will not give me peace, they will not let me be part of society. I have nothing better to do for the next few months than to post content and wait in peacemode until Polar starts another war of aggression down the road.

 

 

 

Quit propagating your false dichotomy. Two things can be true. Polar and the hegemony can be evil warmongers and still be justified in coming after you.

 

There is a bully running around school, beats people up left and right, total jerk. One day a kid he has never messed with, comes and pisses in his food. He might be a jerk, he might be evil, but he is justified in beating the crap out of that kid.

 

You pissed on the bullies food.

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2 hours ago, The Zigur said:

 

For a barbarian alliance, cultural values includes things like sociopathy, backstabbing, casualty worship, violence in response to free speech, and so forth. 

 

 

You have a biased and uniformed opinion about the culture of so called “barbarian” alliances.  As someone who has been in many different alliances (including highly traditional alliances) and done diplomatic work with even more (which does require an understanding of their culture, at least to do the job well), the only part of the above which is correct from my experience is “casualty worship”  and I suspect you do not fully get the reasons behind even that otherwise you would be less critical.

 

Regarding backstabbing, nothing is farther from the truth.  I have never met a more loyal group of people to each other and their allies than those you have consistantly named “barbarians.”   Can they be mean to enemies?  Absolutely.  However being a !@#$ to one’s enemy is not backstabbing.  “Backstabbing” is generally done (if done at all) for perceived political gain.  In CN history, that is more likely to have been done by alliances that in general are large and care about holding political power.  As a general rule, “barbarians” (with their “casuality worship” culture)  do not give a !@#$.

 

As for free speech, no alliance that I can think of has been any type of champion of public free speech and why should they?  The OWF is a public forum where in theory people get their news and form opinions based on that news.  Allowiing someone else to say something in public that might harm one’s alliance,  bloc or person IF it can be stopped makes sense.  In short, free speech is well and good until it is used to be critical of someone , another alliance or allies.  Then all bets are off.

————-

Oh yeah, Congrats on peace SNX.

Edited by White Chocolate

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1 hour ago, MaineGOP said:

 

 

Quit propagating your false dichotomy. Two things can be true. Polar and the hegemony can be evil warmongers and still be justified in coming after you.

 

There is a bully running around school, beats people up left and right, total jerk. One day a kid he has never messed with, comes and pisses in his food. He might be a jerk, he might be evil, but he is justified in beating the crap out of that kid.

 

You pissed on the bullies food.

 

The actual situation is more like this.

 

 

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1 hour ago, White Chocolate said:

You have a biased and uniformed opinion about the culture of so called “barbarian” alliances.  As someone who has been in many different alliances (including highly traditional alliances) and done diplomatic work with even more (which does require an understanding of their culture, at least to do the job well), the only part of the above which is correct from my experience is “casualty worship”  and I suspect you do not fully get the reasons behind even that otherwise you would be less critical.

 

Regarding backstabbing, nothing is farther from the truth.  I have never met a more loyal group of people to each other and their allies than those you have consistantly named “barbarians.”   Can they be mean to enemies?  Absolutely.  However being a !@#$ to one’s enemy is not backstabbing.  “Backstabbing” is generally done (if done at all) for perceived political gain.  In CN history, that is more likely to have been done by alliances that in general are large and care about holding political power.  As a general rule, “barbarians” (with their “casuality worship” culture)  do not give a !@#$.

 

As for free speech, no alliance that I can think of has been any type of champion of public free speech and why should they?  The OWF is a public forum where in theory people get their news and form opinions based on that news.  Allowiing someone else to say something in public that might harm one’s alliance,  bloc or person IF it can be stopped makes sense.  In short, free speech is well and good until it is used to be critical of someone , another alliance or allies.  Then all bets are off.

————-

Oh yeah, Congrats on peace SNX.

 

I will concede I spoke too harshly in regards to barbarians backstabbing. I was thinking of Polar's cancellation on ISX taking effect on Banned's birthday. 

 

Actually, Maine's shilling was enough to throw me into using invectives when I shouldn't lower my debating to the level of others here, so I apologize. The term barbarian isnt necessarily an insult, but rather reflects the embracing of behavior that is counterproductive to the development of civilization. 

 

Barbarians are certainly less of an existential threat than tyrannical hegemony, and I know of at least one situation where a commander of civilization lead a barbarian revolt [ooc: Arminius against Roman occupation of Germania).

 

As to free speech, it is one thing to counter speech calling for aggressive violence, it is another thing to shut down dissidents and debate. Indeed, shutting down free speech reduces the circulation of new ideas and leads to corruption and decay.

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28 minutes ago, The Zigur said:

 

I will concede I spoke too harshly in regards to barbarians backstabbing. I was thinking of Polar's cancellation on ISX taking effect on Banned's birthday. 

 

Actually, Maine's shilling was enough to throw me into using invectives when I shouldn't lower my debating to the level of others here, so I apologize. The term barbarian isnt necessarily an insult, but rather reflects the embracing of behavior that is counterproductive to the development of civilization. 

 

Barbarians are certainly less of an existential threat than tyrannical hegemony, and I know of at least one situation where a commander of civilization lead a barbarian revolt [ooc: Arminius against Roman occupation of Germania).

 

As to free speech, it is one thing to counter speech calling for aggressive violence, it is another thing to shut down dissidents and debate. Indeed, shutting down free speech reduces the circulation of new ideas and leads to corruption and decay.

 

You are simply waffling on with !@#$%^&* yet again.

 

Polar cancelled on iSX because you were told, over and over and over, to modify your behavior and over and over and over you allowed your ego to erode the relationship.  There was no backstabbing, we stabbed you directly in the face just like we told you we would.  Please stop being a revisionist twit.  Actions have consequences, you were warned of the consequence but proceeded anyway. 

 

You throw around these terms like barbarian, but I am not sure you have fully considered that the New Polar Order is one of the most developed alliances in terms of culture, history and politics.  Far from being barbarian, we are among the most successful alliances ever to set foot on Bob.  All your creations and opportunistic takeovers rank towards the bottom.  I am sure you believe that by flinging enough poo around your cage someone will notice you, agree with your message and provide support to your ideas, as ridiculous as they really are.

 

I don't need to argue with you for a thousand pages in order for your ideas to be fully explored.  I have ripped you apart a thousand times already.  You have nothing, you know nothing and until you drop the chip on your shoulder you will forever impede your path to enlightenment.

 

No one wants to counter free speech, unless it is one of an ally damaging relationships or throwing their weight around based on their treaties rather than their power.  Polar was very very correct to cancel your treaty for these exact reasons.  In fact, you will find that iSX has lost most treaties for the same reasons, you don't know when to keep your fat trap shut.

 

Debating with you won't prevent decay or corruption, it just gives you a vehicle to see your words in a public place without every post being consecutive.

 

They say is it retarded to argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.  Most people recognized this applies directly to you many years ago.  You are most experienced at posting dribble as a trap.

 

I feel I have contributed enough to your line of vanity posting in this thread, whilst this war was about you and your actions, nothing about the future is anything to do with you and this thread has nothing to do with you, but rather iSX of which you are no longer a part.  We have seen to that, you are fully exposed as the mental midget who went ''there'.  Enjoy the sound of your own voice in the echo chamber of this forum.

 

Vote Grub - en-slaver of fools, protector of sanity.

 

 

Edited by AlmightyGrub

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Barbarians backstabbing - Check

Tyrannical hegemony - Check

Stupid moto movie clip - Check

Ignoring facts/logic/reason - Check

 

All of Zigur's usual responses have been covered.  Thank you for the giggle at "fruit cake existence."

Edited by CrinkledStraw

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5 hours ago, AlmightyGrub said:

 

You are simply waffling on with !@#$%^&* yet again.


Polar cancelled on iSX because you were told, over and over and over, to modify your behavior and over and over and over you allowed your ego to erode the relationship.  There was no backstabbing, we stabbed you directly in the face just like we told you we would.  Please stop being a revisionist twit.  Actions have consequences, you were warned of the consequence but proceeded anyway.

 

The treaty was an ODoAP. That means if I somehow legitimately got ISX in trouble, Polar wasn't obligated to defend us. Polar didn't seem to mind my mouth when I was doing what Polar wanted. I can drop logs and texts if you really want to contest that.

 

However, once Polar got into Oculus I believe you found it expedient to throw us away (on Banned's birthday), and let us nuke your strategic adversary for you. Considering ISX was in trouble with Banned in the first place for not bandwaggoning Polar's ally, it was certainly a very Machiavellian move.

 

Quote

You throw around these terms like barbarian, but I am not sure you have fully considered that the New Polar Order is one of the most developed alliances in terms of culture, history and politics.  Far from being barbarian, we are among the most successful alliances ever to set foot on Bob.  All your creations and opportunistic takeovers rank towards the bottom.  I am sure you believe that by flinging enough poo around your cage someone will notice you, agree with your message and provide support to your ideas, as ridiculous as they really are.

 

I never said Polar was an outright barbarian alliance, but your nihilistic beliefs have lead to the contamination of Polaris with barbarian customs like casualty worship.

 

Quote

I don't need to argue with you for a thousand pages in order for your ideas to be fully explored.  I have ripped you apart a thousand times already.  You have nothing, you know nothing and until you drop the chip on your shoulder you will forever impede your path to enlightenment.

No one wants to counter free speech, unless it is one of an ally damaging relationships or throwing their weight around based on their treaties rather than their power.  Polar was very very correct to cancel your treaty for these exact reasons.  In fact, you will find that iSX has lost most treaties for the same reasons, you don't know when to keep your fat trap shut.

Debating with you won't prevent decay or corruption, it just gives you a vehicle to see your words in a public place without every post being consecutive.


They say is it retarded to argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.  Most people recognized this applies directly to you many years ago.  You are most experienced at posting dribble as a trap.

I feel I have contributed enough to your line of vanity posting in this thread, whilst this war was about you and your actions, nothing about the future is anything to do with you and this thread has nothing to do with you, but rather iSX of which you are no longer a part.  We have seen to that, you are fully exposed as the mental midget who went ''there'.  Enjoy the sound of your own voice in the echo chamber of this forum.

Vote Grub - en-slaver of fools, protector of sanity.

 

 

If you want to give up debating, that is understandable. I am but one dissident and many weighty matters no doubt rest upon your shoulders. If none have the wit or intelligence to meaningfully debate with me, then I will simply narrate monologues by myself.

 

However, it is silly to say I have a chip on my shoulder when I would be perfectly content to walk away from this without any fighting. It is Polar who hounds me, a "rogue" who never actually attacked Polar.
 

Edited by The Zigur

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18 hours ago, AlmightyGrub said:

 

You are simply waffling on with !@#$%^&* yet again.

 

Polar cancelled on iSX because you were told, over and over and over, to modify your behavior and over and over and over you allowed your ego to erode the relationship.

I can attest to this as I was in 3 different or tied to 3 different AAs that cancelled on ISX due to same reasons. He simply will not shut up or cease and desist no matter who or how much one implores him. The best strategy IMO is to ignore him on OWF and stop responding and he may fade away, although I'm sure beating on him and his former minions is more fun...:P

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The world would be a lot better if more only said Good luck to ISX in the future. Stop feed the animal from now on, plz

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If you guys don't like my posting Polar could simply leave me alone instead of hounding me.

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yeah just let me lie about and generally antagonize you in peace guys

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5 hours ago, The Zigur said:

If you guys don't like my posting Polar could simply leave me alone instead of hounding me.

 

No one is hounding you.  We don't like your posting because it is factually inaccurate, deliberately misleading and always self-serving.

 

Die another day martyr, no one is watching, no one cares.... well I do because Grub is Love.

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2 hours ago, AlmightyGrub said:

 

No one is hounding you.  We don't like your posting because it is factually inaccurate, deliberately misleading and always self-serving.

 

Die another day martyr, no one is watching, no one cares.... well I do because Grub is Love.

 

Ok so are you saying Im free to join an AA? Because term said I have to fight "several rounds" (read: until bill-locked) and then Polar still might threaten/attack anyone I try to join or get aid from.

 

If thats true literally the most rational option for me is to remain in peacemode until I can volunteer to defend Polar's next victim.

Edited by The Zigur

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