Franz Ferdinand Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said: Also going to point out that Diadochi getting peace is a matter for the Imperium and A-Team to sort out; as Diadochi is no longer a member of PoSSE it would not be a global norm to hunt down a dissenter regardless of Alonso's personal ideas about how the world should function. Although what Alonso said there is true in that if you leave an alliance before peace has been secured, then you are a war deserter. Especially if you declared war and then abandoned ship within a few hours of initiating the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) Hello folks i'm here to confirm tht Stone has my approval and support in Creating the A-team alliance, Stone Be fruitful and increase in numbers ; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the hyenas in the land and the crows in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground 0/ A-team. Edited February 12, 2017 by Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Franz Ferdinand said: Although what Alonso said there is true in that if you leave an alliance before peace has been secured, then you are a war deserter. Especially if you declared war and then abandoned ship within a few hours of initiating the war. The Imperium is comprised of all sorts of former rogues, deserters, tech slaves and such who have integrated into our producerist system. Once a member is accepted we expect them to wipe the slate clean and embrace their new identity as Imperators. People have deserted from ISX and I never pursued them for that fact alone, this honestly sounds more like a political grudge held by a dictator than anything reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Lucis Caelum Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Diadochi Von Seleucids said: Consider that throughout the whole day, Alonso with held information from his fellow government as to why the conflict began, allowing its escalation to occur. Sometimes things happen in life which are out of your control and you don't have access to a computer for a day because of an emergency. Being on Skype at different times than the rest of gov doesn't mean he was withholding information. You just weren't online at the same time as him and he didn't have the time to be on all day. You were attacked and chose to abandon the alliance rather than try resolving the situation, leaving us with no MoFA when we had a diplomatic issue which needed to be dealt with. Me and Alonso ended up reaching out to Stonewall in order to resolve it. However you left as you were the only nuclear POSSE nation fighting Stonewall & the other POSSE nations fighting him had no military wonders. So you really left them hanging and the alliance when suddenly our MoFA quits in the middle of a crisis. As long as you aren't acting against our interests, we won't have reason to attack you. I don't think trying to throw blame around and continue arguing about this is to your benefit. I suggest you keep your head down for a while and wait for this to blow over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diadochi Von Seleucids Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Noctis Lucis Caelum said: Sometimes things happen in life which are out of your control and you don't have access to a computer for a day because of an emergency. Being on Skype at different times than the rest of gov doesn't mean he was withholding information. You just weren't online at the same time as him and he didn't have the time to be on all day. You were attacked and chose to abandon the alliance rather than try resolving the situation, leaving us with no MoFA when we had a diplomatic issue which needed to be dealt with. Me and Alonso ended up reaching out to Stonewall in order to resolve it. However you left as you were the only nuclear POSSE nation fighting Stonewall & the other POSSE nations fighting him had no military wonders. So you really left them hanging and the alliance when suddenly our MoFA quits in the middle of a crisis. As long as you aren't acting against our interests, we won't have reason to attack you. I don't think trying to throw blame around and continue arguing about this is to your benefit. I suggest you keep your head down for a while and wait for this to blow over. So informing non-governmental members such as yourself and not informing the rest of his government, say through a short message in game or even in any other form of communication we hold, seems quite a good thing to do. Considering the only reason the origin of the conflict was only found out was as a result of a non-governmental member unintentionally saying it near a few hours from downtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kay Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said: People have deserted from ISX and I never pursued them for that fact alone, this honestly sounds more like a political grudge held by a dictator than anything reasonable. That's strange I read somewhere about you take over of SNX and your chasing and war of former members and government... Funny that you contradict yourself in every post, is lying natural for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jay Kay said: That's strange I read somewhere about you take over of SNX and your chasing and war of former members and government... Funny that you contradict yourself in every post, is lying natural for you? If you spent more time reading about our history rather than trying to be a rebel all of the time you would have known this wasn't the case. You might be as annoying to me as Diadochi is to Alonso but I never threatened to take punitive actions against you for abandoning your oath. Edited February 12, 2017 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Kay Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said: If you spent more time reading about our history rather than trying to be a rebel all of the time you would have known this wasn't the case. I read the whole story and not just your narrative, its a good way to distinguish the truth from the propaganda Quote You might be as annoying to me as Diadochi is to Alonso but I never threatened to take punitive actions against you for abandoning your oath. Still need those reading lessons I see, I wasn't around during your take over of SNX and asking DS to help war those who didn't want to be ruled by a tactical moron. ------ As for the topic, may your new alliance be more fruitful than your last one. Edited February 12, 2017 by Jay Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Noctis Lucis Caelum said: However you left as you were the only nuclear POSSE nation fighting Stonewall & the other POSSE nations fighting him had no military wonders. It's not really Diadochi's fault that Alonso placed his ill-prepared membership at risk because of his desire to constantly break norms. PoSSE had a treaty with the Imperium until Alonso cancelled it. Edited February 12, 2017 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Lucis Caelum Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said: It's not really Diadochi's fault that Alonso placed his ill-prepared membership at risk because of his desire to constantly break norms. PoSSE had a treaty with the Imperium until Alonso cancelled it. Everyone doesn't need to be with you or against you; we don't need a treaty if you're unlikely to back Alonso when he breaks whatever you consider the norms. You think every alliance needs to fit a certain mold and can't stand it when people deviate from it. Although alliances and how they function can evolve from experimenting with new ideas I see nothing wrong with trying something different, even if it breaks your norms. I think you use treaties as a way of trying enforce your norms on other alliances, although I think the way we function is better and SNX policy would be a downgrade. If that treaty was still active, would you have countered TAT even if it meant also fighting SLAP? If the answer to that is you wouldn't have been willing to jump in under such circumstances, that treaty wouldn't have mattered here. Its only purpose would be for you to try using to try influencing us politically, as a control mechanism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) Diadochi seems to have a good head on his shoulders and I suspect he would have been a better leader in PoSSE than Alonso. Therefore I see value in him. If PoSSE functions better than ISX then it should have no issues handling Alonso's policy decisions... ergo, Diadochi leaving was not a critical blow to PoSSE like you claimed. If people choose to deviate from our viewpoint then it is not the responsibility of my membership to rescue them from the dilemmas that result... the point of our treaties isn't to backup stupidity, but to increase mutual prosperity and stability. Edited February 12, 2017 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Lucis Caelum Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Immortan Junka said: Diadochi seems to have a good head on his shoulders and I suspect he would have been a better leader in PoSSE than Alonso. Therefore I see value in him. If PoSSE functions better than ISX then it should have no issues handling Alonso's policy decisions... ergo, Diadochi leaving was not a critical blow to PoSSE like you claimed. If people choose to deviate from our viewpoint then it is not the responsibility of my membership to rescue them from the dilemmas that result. Its not a critical blow, since I'm able to fill the void. This might even be a time of improvement, seeing how Diadochi handled this issue. Escalating it by doing a spy op and then abandoning the alliance isn't what a good Minister of Foreign Affairs would do. If they mess up, they try to fix the situation. If they want to resign, they should make sure a replacement is lined up and its not right after they got the AA they're on attacked. You are praising Diadochi, but had he done the same as a member of SNX; your viewpoint of him would be completely different. I doubt you would let him leave without pursuit. You're right on having no responsibility to assist if we don't have a treaty, but somehow I think you're referring to if we had a treaty you still wouldn't need to. You don't strike me as the type who would jump in for an ally who is in a lopsided war, since from your viewpoint if they're getting curb stomped and you aren't; they must have deviated from your viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Noctis Lucis Caelum said: Its not a critical blow, since I'm able to fill the void. This might even be a time of improvement, seeing how Diadochi handled this issue. Escalating it by doing a spy op and then abandoning the alliance isn't what a good Minister of Foreign Affairs would do. If they mess up, they try to fix the situation. If they want to resign, they should make sure a replacement is lined up and its not right after they got the AA they're on attacked. You are praising Diadochi, but had he done the same as a member of SNX; your viewpoint of him would be completely different. I doubt you would let him leave without pursuit. You're right on having no responsibility to assist if we don't have a treaty, but somehow I think you're referring to if we had a treaty you still wouldn't need to. You don't strike me as the type who would jump in for an ally who is in a lopsided war, since from your viewpoint if they're getting curb stomped and you aren't; they must have deviated from your viewpoint. You are correct, being that our treaties are ODoAPs, we would not backup an ally who does something stupid like splitting AA's to raid other alliances. I can't speak for Umbrella but I suspect our position is not that dissimilar to theirs. As to Diadochi he only left after Alonso logged in and posted his own statements contrary to Diadochi's handling of the situation as MoFA. If Alonso does not respect other government officers I would not be surprised when they resign in protest, especially when Diadochi helped write the charter. Edited February 12, 2017 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franz Ferdinand Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Jay Kay said: That's strange I read somewhere about you take over of SNX and your chasing and war of former members and government... Funny that you contradict yourself in every post, is lying natural for you? CRV24 was indeed locked into Peace Mode and an agreement was eventually struck with GATO in order to resolve that loose end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Lucis Caelum Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said: You are correct, being that our treaties are ODoAPs, we would not backup an ally who does something stupid like splitting AA's to raid other alliances. I can't speak for Umbrella but I suspect our position is not that dissimilar to theirs. As to Diadochi he only left after Alonso logged in and posted his own statements contrary to Diadochi's handling of the situation as MoFA. If Alonso does not respect other government officers I would not be surprised when they resign in protest, especially when Diadochi wrote the charter. Alonso posted his opinions on OWF? Most alliances let their members express their individual thoughts and don't need to parrot a party line whenever they speak. SNX is one of the few alliances who have such restrictions on freedom of speech, but in most alliances its normal to hear more than one viewpoint from an alliance. Although I have no interest in arguing with you on whether Diadochi did the right or wrong thing. I don't have a personal grudge against him and I don't mind if you accept him. I have no interest in condemning him, good luck to him in restoring his reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diadochi Von Seleucids Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, Noctis Lucis Caelum said: Alonso posted his opinions on OWF? Most alliances let their members express their individual thoughts and don't need to parrot a party line whenever they speak. SNX is one of the few alliances who have such restrictions on freedom of speech, but in most alliances its normal to hear more than one viewpoint from an alliance. Although I have no interest in arguing with you on whether Diadochi did the right or wrong thing. I don't have a personal grudge against him and I don't mind if you accept him. I have no interest in condemning him, good luck to him in restoring his reputation. Ah mate but doesnt BringMeTheHorizon have such a great reputation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Noctis Lucis Caelum said: Alonso posted his opinions on OWF? Most alliances let their members express their individual thoughts and don't need to parrot a party line whenever they speak. SNX is one of the few alliances who have such restrictions on freedom of speech, but in most alliances its normal to hear more than one viewpoint from an alliance. Although I have no interest in arguing with you on whether Diadochi did the right or wrong thing. I don't have a personal grudge against him and I don't mind if you accept him. I have no interest in condemning him, good luck to him in restoring his reputation. Alonso is apparently Minister of War in PoSSE, despite being in a separate AA in order to raid other alliances. It seems the Minister of War failed to allow the Minister of Foreign Affairs to do his job uninterrupted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Lucis Caelum Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Immortan Junka said: Alonso is apparently Minister of War in PoSSE, despite being in a separate AA in order to raid other alliances. It seems the Minister of War failed to allow the Minister of Foreign Affairs to do his job uninterrupted. You seem to care about us a lot, but not in the good way. Your obsession has been noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Noctis Lucis Caelum said: You seem to care about us a lot, but not in the good way. Your obsession has been noted. I'm merely here to correct any misconceptions being spread by Alonso's loyalists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Lucis Caelum Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 Just now, Immortan Junka said: I'm merely here to correct any misconceptions being spread by Alonso's loyalists. You have a grudge against Alonso, good for you. You spread way to many misconceptions among your loyalists to even make it worth trying to correct them all. Just correcting the misconceptions you spread about other alliance leaders is like a full time job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Noctis Lucis Caelum said: You have a grudge against Alonso, good for you. You spread way to many misconceptions among your loyalists to even make it worth trying to correct them all. Just correcting the misconceptions you spread about other alliance leaders is like a full time job. You folks are attacking Diadochi's character despite the fact that he has defended Alonso's character to me in the past, purely out of loyalty and sense of duty as MoFA. Diadochi helped to write the PoSSE charter and represented a voice of sanity within the alliance. If the situation were just, Alonso's AA fragment would have been disowned, but Diadochi stuck his neck out for Alonso; in return he was disrespected and ignored. You seem quite ruthless and ambitious in your desire to supplant Diadochi as MoFA; if the rest of PoSSE wants to follow along with that it is their right to do so. Edited February 12, 2017 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diadochi Von Seleucids Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said: You seem quite ruthless and ambitious in your desire to supplant Diadochi as MoFA; if the rest of PoSSE wants to follow along with that it is their right to do so. As well quite willing to circumvent the laws established in the charter of The Protectorate towards executive action to put yourself in the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctis Lucis Caelum Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Immortan Junka said: You folks are attacking Diadochi's character despite the fact that he has defended Alonso's character to me in the past, purely out of loyalty and sense of duty as MoFA. Diadochi helped to write the PoSSE charter and represented a voice of sanity within the alliance. If the situation were just, Alonso's AA fragment would have been disowned, but Diadochi stuck his neck out for Alonso; in return he was disrespected and ignored. You seem quite ruthless and ambitious in your desire to supplant Diadochi as MoFA; if the rest of PoSSE wants to follow along with that it is their right to do so. I've repeatedly said I don't want to discuss what he did and its better people stop bringing it up. You're the one who keeps constantly bringing him up and trying to use him as a source of argument. I tried convincing him for around an hour on skype to stay after he left, giving him many suggestions of what we could do. I wanted him to stay and wished him well when he left. Its just your distortion of the facts and constantly involving him makes him and what he did the center of discussion. I think you should stop trying to make the conditions in which he left the primary topic of discussion, its you who's doing him a great disservice. I've repeatedly tried moving the discussion away from him personally, since I have nothing against him. He made a mistake, we don't need to keep talking about it in loops. I said you are free to accept him and I wish him luck. I don't want to condemn him to any kind of terrible fate, I tried convincing him to come back. It was him who put himself in his current situation, I never had any desire to remove him. Although the MoFA is an important position, so I will do my best to fill the position. Its not official yet, but I have volunteered to fill position for the good of the alliance. Edited February 12, 2017 by Noctis Lucis Caelum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 I don't think Diadochi made a mistake at all, he is a political dissident, not a deserter, and as one of the people who wrote the charter he believes in the rule of law, not the insanity of an alliance raider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franz Ferdinand Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 Just now, Noctis Lucis Caelum said: I've repeatedly said I don't want to discuss what he did and its better people stop bringing it up. You're the one who keeps constantly bringing him up and trying to use him as a source of argument. I tried convincing for around an hour on skype to stay after he left, giving him many suggestions of what we could do. I wanted him to stay and wished him well when he left. Its just your distortion of the facts and constantly involving him makes him and what he did the center of discussion. I think you should stop trying to make the conditions in which he left the primary topic of discussion, its you who's doing him a great disservice. I've repeatedly tried moving the discussion away from him personally, since I have nothing against him. He made a mistake, we don't need to keep talking about it in loops. I said you are free to accept him and I wish him luck. I don't want to condemn him to any kind of terrible fate, I tried convincing him to come back. It was him who put himself in his current situation, I never had any desire to remove him. Although the MoFA is an important position, so I will do my best to fill the position. Its not official yet, but I have volunteered to fill position for the good of the alliance. Once the MoFA position has been filled, could Umbrella have a heads up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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