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Alex0827a

Let's Play With Scorpions!

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[insert flag later, tablet isn't good for this]

 

For the purposes of full disclosure:

 

Emperor Mic left SPATR on the 21st while in peace mode. No history of active wars, no signs of any trouble. He asked to join us on the 29th, we said yes. Then yesterday, I get a pm from Auctor basically saying "he's on our target list, kick him or we'll attack you." For those of you who actually know me, you will recognize that threats are an awful way to go about getting anything from me. I told him I'm 100% against that, and here's my reasoning: 

 

Mic has no history of wars with anyone, let alone Sengoku.

Sengoku's last active war with SPATR was on June 3rd, so it's hard to believe that it's anything more than just a hobby for them. 

They waited a couple days, so obviously it wasn't important enough to follow him closely.

Technically, they should be declaring on KoN for the same reason, as they accepted Mic as a member.

Nobody who currently has an active war with SPATR has contacted me in any way saying that this was an issue.

 

Now, I personally prefer to fight, but that's not how TSC runs. I asked for a day to discuss it with the membership, because that's how we make important decisions. Auctor seemed agreeable, but then I woke up to find that Mic had been attacked. 

 

In summary, The Sandstorm Confederacy hereby recognizes a state of active war with Sengoku. Given their tech levels, I don't necessarily expect us to come out on top, but we can't let anyone attack someone on our AA without thorough discussion first, and this was not the case.

 

Maybe this time they won't feel the need to call in Pacifica and Umbrella just to handle us. Or maybe they will, because that's just what Oculus does. I used to like Sengoku, but I guess that was just hart (who I still like).

 

Signed for The Sandstorm Confederacy

 

Alex0827a - Elder of Travel

ConRed - Elder of the Treasury

Satan1612 - Elder of Organization

veracity - Elder of War

eXcessium - Tribal Elder

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Oculus has been at war with SPATR for months now... how exactly did you think this was going to go? You accepted a member from an alliance at war, you've been around CN long enough to fully realize that's generally a no no. I wish you good fortune in the wars to come.

Edited by Caustic

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To: Alex0827a    From: Auctor    Date: 6/29/2016 11:57:30 PM

Subject: Hello

Message: http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=555412

Is on our target list and will continue to be targeted until such time as the war with SPaTR ends. I highly suggest yall remove his membership status.

 

To: Auctor    From: Alex0827a    Date: 7/1/2016 4:18:42 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: He has no active wars, nor any history of recent ones. Given that, and that Sengoku is obviously not actively pursuing him (based on lack of wars), his membership status will remain.

Look man, I like you guys, but given that he's not really brought any trouble with him I can't justify feeding him to the wolves.

I would argue that given the lack of war history and current wars, it'd be best to just let it go.


To: Alex0827a    From: Auctor    Date: 7/1/2016 4:37:49 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: We did't have nations in range and he was in peace mode for a long period.

I'm fine if you want to force the issue. Let's do this.

 

To: Auctor    From: Alex0827a    Date: 7/1/2016 6:20:58 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: If he hasn't even done any damage to Sengoku, why do you care?


To: Alex0827a    From: Auctor    Date: 7/1/2016 6:29:36 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: I have no intention of letting any nation that was in that alliance leave the war until they've come to a suitable individual arrangement with us or their alliance makes a proper peace. I'm not really interested in being toyed with on it either. Decide how you want to handle this and we'll proceed from there.

 

To: Auctor    From: Alex0827a    Date: 7/1/2016 6:59:36 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: Given that we don't really do much without an alliance vote, give me a day to get people's input. Then I'll let you know whether we end up handing him over or not. I just posted the discussion topic about 5 minutes ago.

 

To: Alex0827a    From: Auctor    Date: 7/1/2016 7:08:12 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: I'll see what I can do on my end but frankly accepting a nation at war with us looks really really atrociously bad. My membership is pretty ticked.


To: Alex0827a    From: Auctor    Date: 7/1/2016 7:09:03 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: Are you actually saying your alliance voted to accept a nation at war with us?

 

To: Auctor    From: Alex0827a    Date: 7/1/2016 7:12:13 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: They haven't voted. But if an old friend showed up at your door with no history of any wars and wanted to be an active part of your alliance, what would you say?

I understand that your membership might be upset. But given that Sengoku hasn't had an active war with SPATR in a month, it's hard to justify why they might actually care. I thought that whole thing ended a while ago, tbh.


To: Alex0827a    From: Auctor    Date: 7/1/2016 7:13:55 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: Don't give me that crap. You're openly admitting to sheltering a nation at war with us. Either sack up and declare war or resolve this situation ASAP.

 

To: Auctor    From: Alex0827a    Date: 7/1/2016 7:20:34 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: Give us a day to work it out. I personally would rather fight (you guys were fun last time we fought, and I'd love to get mars wonders cheap), but wars and treaties are decided by membership vote, not my personal feelings. Checks and balances and whatnot. If the membership decides to leave him to you, that's what we'll do. I'll let you know one way or the other tomorrow though.

 

To: Alex0827a    From: Auctor    Date: 7/1/2016 7:27:40 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: I'll see about getting that going for you.

 

To: Auctor    From: Alex0827a    Date: 7/1/2016 7:30:22 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: Well, let my folks decide first, just in case they feel I'm wrong :P

I'm not so arrogant as to let their nations burn just because I feel a certain way about one particular matter. I don't force anything the alliance doesn't want, regardless of personal feelings.


To: Auctor    From: Alex0827a    Date: 7/1/2016 7:31:11 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: On that note, I'm heading to bed - I have to get up for work in 5 hours lol

Edited by Auctor

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Is it my Birthday? I feel like only this amount of stupidity happens on my birthday.

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You asked for a whole day to vote on Mic but it took you all of fifteen minutes to vote to go to war (after update at that)?

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24 minutes ago, James Spanier said:

You asked for a whole day to vote on Mic but it took you all of fifteen minutes to vote to go to war (after update at that)?

Kind of an easy vote when they are being attacked.

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They committed an act of war against us and we're the bad guys.

 

 

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No no no no no. Only we're allowed to do Bad Decision Fridays

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i'm not sengoku fan in the least, but accepting someone knowingly they're at war with, and then telling them to $%&@ off when they're understandably tight about it is pretty dumb,

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2 hours ago, Auctor said:

To: Alex0827a    From: Auctor    Date: 7/1/2016 6:29:36 PM

Subject: RE: Hello

Message: I have no intention of letting any nation that was in that alliance leave the war until they've come to a suitable individual arrangement with us or their alliance makes a proper peace. I'm not really interested in being toyed with on it either. Decide how you want to handle this and we'll proceed from there.
 

 

You know this is !@#$%^&* Auctor, I haven't heard of a single case of Oculus allowing individual surrenders, in fact multiple people have stated that it is never been allowed, correct me if I'm mistaken on that point.

 

Frawley made it abundantly clear that the war with SPaTR/MONGOLS won't end until BONEs is at 0 tech, so you're essentially claiming any nation on an alliance led by a person who, whilst on another AA, sanctions a member of your alliance must endure being curbstomped for months.

 

[OOC] Then you claim that Oculus is in no way damaging the game [/OOC]

 

TSC was pretty reckless here, but Alex's reasoning not unsound, Sengoku nor anyone else in Oculus has any rational reason to be pissed here, other than just wanting to beat on alliances that have no hope of fighting back.

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At no point have any of these nations approached me for an individual surrender. They've either sent intermediaries, which I don't accept, or simply left the AA and declared themselves free of it, which is unacceptable as well. Given the very real concern about the lack of autonomy of some of these nations, some level of proof that the people we're letting go aren't the people we are still fighting is reasonable. To date, none of them has bothered to provide it or even seek peace for themselves.

 

So either $%&@ off or do something about it.

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Considering the rather unique links between lots of those nations, letting them get away from war would be rather silly as all that would happen is magically tech would go bones way. 

 

 

I'm sure we could have handled this nicely, but seeing as though our warning was thrown back at us I'm glad you saved us from having to write up a post. 

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3 hours ago, Auctor said:

At no point have any of these nations approached me for an individual surrender. They've either sent intermediaries, which I don't accept, or simply left the AA and declared themselves free of it, which is unacceptable as well. Given the very real concern about the lack of autonomy of some of these nations, some level of proof that the people we're letting go aren't the people we are still fighting is reasonable. To date, none of them has bothered to provide it or even seek peace for themselves.

 

So either $%&@ off or do something about it.

 

Pure !@#$%^&*.

 

Sengoku, Oculus and Auctor specifically have denied dozens of nations that have approached him and others. I have logs. They have been blown off with statements such as "peace comes from within," "not my problem," "I understand where you are coming from but it's not my decision and I don't know whose decision it is," and so on and so forth. 

 

This war has been going on for almost 4 monthes now. Other wars have started and ended, but Oculus, Sengoku and Auctor have basically sentenced our entire sphere to PZI. 

 

Auctor has stated that he will only deal with Bones* -- including on issues such as individual surrenders for NEW, Kaskus and SP&TR nations who have never interacted with Bones. 

 

* = Not to mention Bones has been MIA except in game for months. 

 

EDIT:

When Mic approached Oculus government they said "Who are you?" when he asked for peace. When he linked his nation to them (IRC) he was ignored on 3 separate occasions. On the fourth occasion he was told that Bones, Vibi and a few others were saying that they were going to quit the game after they ran out of WCs so Auctor and others in Oculus have sentenced the other 89 nations on NEW/SP&TR/Kaskus AA to PZI, for crimes commited by a nation on the Mongols AA. 

Edited by Unknown Smurf

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Of course you haven't been allowed to individually surrender. You claim to be a government member and as such are being held responsible with the others.

 

I've said I'm open to speaking to Murtibing or sgt gus as well, just not to you because you're a dishonest person and I have no idea what you're empowered to do and I don't really care to negotiate with you regardless. The other alliances governments have *always* been allowed to contact me if they wish to obtain peace and so far, only TIR has done so. They balked at surrender and no reentry, so yeah, there really hasn't been a lot of interest in playing games with it. If any of the other alliances think the starting point is going to be something different, they're delusional.

 

I've never spoken once to Emperor Mic, so that's news to me. Given this was a war started against Sengoku in the first place, I or one of my staff would have been the appropriate ones to contact.

Edited by Auctor

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7 minutes ago, Auctor said:

Of course you haven't been allowed to surrender. You claim to be a government member and as such are being held responsible with the others.

 

I've said I'm open to speaking to Murtibing or sgt gus as well, just not to you because you're a dishonest person and I have no idea what you're empowered to do and I don't really care to negotiate with you regardless. The other alliances governments have *always* been allowed to contact me if they wish to obtain peace and so far, only TIR has done so. They balked at surrender and no reentry, so yeah, there really hasn't been a lot of interest in playing games with it. If any of the other alliances think the starting point is going to be something different, they're delusional.

 

I've never spoken once to Emperor Mic, so that's news to me.

 

1) Please learn to read. I said Mic and dozens of others in NEW/SP&TR/Kaskus have approached you ingame or otherwise (IRC) about individual surrenders, this has nothing to do with me.

 

2) Where did I ever claim to be a government member? At the start of the war I was in TBC.

 

3) You demand to speak to those that have no experience with CN negotiations for individual surrenders? Why would governments of certain alliances be involved in individual surrenders regardless? It is clear that you are demanding to speak to inactives/others who have decided to quit in order to hold others who want to keep playing CN at perma-war. 

Edited by Unknown Smurf

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Just now, Unknown Smurf said:

 

1) Please read. I said Mic and dozens of others in NEW/SP&TR/Kaskus have approached you ingame or otherwise (IRC) about individual surrenders, this has nothing to do with me.

 

2) Where did I ever claim to be a government member? At the start of the war I was in TBC.

 

3) You demand to speak to those that have no experience with CN negotiations for individual surrenders? Why would governments of certain alliances be involved in individual surrenders regardless? It is clear that you are demanding to speak to inactives in order to hold others who want to keep playing CN at perma-war. 

 

1) that's untrue.

 

2) it's in the SPaTR recognition of war.

 

3) Yeah, I expect people that want to surrender to actually show me they wish to surrender rather than taking anyone else's word for it.

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Just now, Auctor said:

Of course you haven't been allowed to surrender. You claim to be a government member and as such are being held responsible with the others.

 

I've said I'm open to speaking to Murtibing or sgt gus as well, just not to you because you're a dishonest person and I have no idea what you're empowered to do and I don't really care to negotiate with you regardless. The other alliances governments have *always* been allowed to contact me if they wish to obtain peace and so far, only TIR has done so. They balked at surrender and no reentry, so yeah, there really hasn't been a lot of interest in playing games with it. If any of the other alliances think the starting point is going to be something different, they're delusional.

 

I've never spoken once to Emperor Mic, so that's news to me.

 

Obviously, a surrender/no reentry would mean walking away from allies, leaving them to burn and be subjected to you unwillingness to reach a conclusion to war.

 

We(our side) was ready to agree to white peace and call it a day, you were not by adding terms.

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Not sure where the idea came from that we're 'sposda just hand out white peace as a door prize for starting an offensive war on us, but that must sound nice in your head.

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Just now, Auctor said:

Not sure where the idea came from that we're 'sposda just hand out white peace as a door prize for starting an offensive war on us, but that must sound nice in your head.

 

Says the alliance who hit the declare war button first.

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4 minutes ago, Auctor said:

 

1) that's untrue.

 

2) it's in the SPaTR recognition of war.

 

3) Yeah, I expect people that want to surrender to actually show me they wish to surrender rather than taking anyone else's word for it.

 

1) No it's not.

 

2) "Unknown Smurf - Resident Kanye West" is clearly a joke about how much I post/how loud I am. Especially when you consider all the other signatures contain official titles (Ex: Executive Officer, Security Council Member)

 

3) Yeah.. like the messages they sent you multiple times asking about individual terms and being repeatedly ignored? If you want to actually post proof of ANYWHERE you ever acknowledged individual surrenders were on the table or you ever considered them, that would be a great first step.

 

But, as always you continue to brush off statements and spout bull under the implication of fact without any proof posted. 

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Closest thing I can think of was some dude that pm'd hartfw that he hopes he was a victim of parental abuse of an unsavory nature and then hopping to "Oculus PoW" for a day and then back to MONGOLS. I have yet to have receive anything that seemed serious aside from third parties attempting to intervene and I actually have discussed the issues we'd have with it with them.

 

But go on. Tell everyone how NEW and Kaskus and TIR are being held to eternal war because surrender/no reentry is evil.

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