Nick GhostWolf Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Thats the thing with internal jokes, they don't make sense with people not in the know. Look at the war screens, look at SNX's... er... decisions for how they set up their nations, and all will be made clear. Unless you don't find SNX getting squashed to be funny, in which case I guess your lack of humor would be understandable. You were their protector undertheir illustrious and unequated Junka. You felt them ready to be "upgraded" from a protectorate to stand on their own. Maybe you should have worked with them? Or was that "upgrade" so you can sit back pointing fingers? Put yourself in their shoes, would you want to have to wipe SNX's ass for them every time they went and did something dumb? DK are nothing if not pragmatic, and cheap tech farms can be set up elsewhere without as much political damage control necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Put yourself in their shoes, would you want to have to wipe SNX's ass for them every time they went and did something dumb? DK are nothing if not pragmatic, and cheap tech farms can be set up elsewhere without as much political damage control necessary. No thanks, we turned Junka away long ago. Junka did not sign that protectorate or "upgrade" alone. DK signed it too, and insist it is "stronger" now (an actual upgrade would not weaken anyones position). Point was, she said others should have done it. They signed him on and upgraded him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick GhostWolf Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 No thanks, we turned Junka away long ago. Junka did not sign that protectorate or "upgrade" alone. DK signed it too, and insist it is "stronger" now (an actual upgrade would not weaken anyones position). Point was, she said others should have done it. They signed him on and upgraded him. The irony isn't lost on me. I'm of the opinion personally that if a leadership structure cannot, on its own, teach its members to fight properly then that leadership structure is to blame for the failings. Not a protectorate-turned-ODoAP. This has the appearance of a treaty holding-pattern; unwilling to commit military force to SNX's defense at this time but unwilling to scrub the relationship completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rileyaddaff Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I remember said 2 man AA going up against a much larger alliance and kicking their arses (or at least their lower tier), but I might be mixing SNX up with someone else.Thanks for the helheim and/or the lost vikings shoutout. We've been enjoying ripping our opponents to shreds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) This has the appearance of a treaty holding-pattern; unwilling to commit military force to SNX's defense at this time but unwilling to scrub the relationship completely. Don't be so harsh, they will defend SNX when the threat is minimal and make a big public show of it, like they did just over a month ago. I will take their in action going off previous standards of theirs as a show of fear of Polar and Oculus. Take it as a compliment and don't rub it in... Edited March 30, 2016 by the rebel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick GhostWolf Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Don't be so harsh, they will defend SNX when the threat is minimal and make a big public show of it, like they did just over a month ago. I will take their in action going off previous standards of theirs as a show of fear of Polar and Oculus. Take it as a compliment and don't rub it in... I'm not going to overtake it as a compliment. I can recall the Doom War, and those fights were nothing like these SNX pushovers I'm farming for XP engaged in an epic battle with now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 SNX has not requested the military assistance of our several allies and I asked them specifically to not engage because we are not afraid of holding our ground against braggarts and thugs. This is not our first rolling and will not be our last. If we were afraid of fighting I would not have asked for an upgrade from protectorate status. Are all of my members as good at war as our best fighters? No, that is an unreasonable expectation. One thing I am proud of though is the courage of Imperators who fight against overwhelming odds, their dignity in the face of constant insults, their dedication and willingness to fight for eternity to preserve the Imperial Truth against a crass and hateful enemy. I am proud to call them my family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarGod0001 Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 One thing I am proud of though is the courage of Imperators who fight against overwhelming odds, their dignity in the face of constant insults, their dedication and willingness to fight for eternity to preserve the Imperial Truth against a crass and hateful enemy. I am proud to call them my family. Sooo, you're definitely not proud of this guy right? Cause he didn't even fire one shot yet. To: WarGod0001 From: kajkajete Date: 3/29/2016 5:50:53 PM Subject: Peace Offer Message: A peace offer has been submitted by kajkajete for the following reason: Cessation of Hostilities As soon as both nations accept peace the war will end. If either nation attacks one another this peace offer will be automatically canceled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Sooo, you're definitely not proud of this guy right? Cause he didn't even fire one shot yet. You're one of the people in Polar I liked but again, more pointless chest thumping. The vast majority of our members under attack fight back, but you guys want to make a big deal out of a minority of inactives who just now login after receiving email alerts. Do you want me to expend the effort to put together a list of Polar's poor warfighters during the Doom war? Pointless bravado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Are all of my members as good at war as our best fighters? Are any of your members? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galerion Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Sooo, you're definitely not proud of this guy right? Cause he didn't even fire one shot yet. Even NpO have people who don't fight back. Edited March 30, 2016 by Galerion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rileyaddaff Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 It's not that they aren't fighting. They are just waiting for the perfect time to strike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurthwaite Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Even NpO have people who don't fight back. Meh. Next you're going to complain about him turtling. I'm too lazy to go find it, but I'm certain I remember complaints from SNX about Minc using wonder heavy nations in the bottom tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Meh. Next you're going to complain about him turtling. I'm too lazy to go find it, but I'm certain I remember complaints from SNX about Minc using wonder heavy nations in the bottom tier. Polar is relentlessly mocking us because of a couple nations, I think that was a fair rebuttal by Galerion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Even NpO have people who don't fight back. As per someone saying a fair point .. actually not... after three days and someone is not fighting back one would think that the nation in question would go to another war to help a fellow member. Just saying instead of boasting about dominating a inactive nation..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 As per someone saying a fair point .. actually not... after three days and someone is not fighting back one would think that the nation in question would go to another war to help a fellow member. Just saying instead of boasting about dominating a inactive nation..... Why are people too lazy to review the situation before posting? Galerion is in nuke anarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Why are people too lazy to review the situation before posting? Galerion is in nuke anarchy. well just nuke anarchy you can actually declare TBH .. but that was not the point just saying in general Edited March 30, 2016 by brucemania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 SNX has not requested the military assistance of our several allies and I asked them specifically to not engage because we are not afraid of holding our ground against braggarts and thugs. This is not our first rolling and will not be our last. If we were afraid of fighting I would not have asked for an upgrade from protectorate status. *needs billions in aid and allied fighters when facing a handful of nations* *along comes a sanctioned alliance, suddenly needs no help at all* Yeah pull the other leg Junka, you probably have requested and they denied it or you haven't requested because you know they will deny it. Or maybe they coming in at the right time... Those are the valid options and not what you said. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Some things can't be taught. I'm sure if they could have been, you guys as their protectors would have stood up. We assisted them a great deal when we were their protectors. Lord Hershey helped with getting a tech dealing program and they did a good job with that. I don't think there was one time where tech wasn't provided when it was paid for. We assisted with their war against AFRO and then with LN. We tried to resolve that and provided a ton of aid. Maybe you should have worked with them? Or was that "upgrade" so you can sit back pointing fingers? We had planned on upgrading in January but they got into their war with Methrage, aNiMaLz. and MI. So upgrading the treaty got put on the burner until after the war. As I said above, we tried hard to resolve that war with the help of GATO on the GATO forum. Some progress was made but the talks failed. After both of us decide it was time to end the protector-protected relationship regardless. Also... No thanks, we turned Junka away long ago. Junka did not sign that protectorate or "upgrade" alone. DK signed it too, and insist it is "stronger" now (an actual upgrade would not weaken anyones position). Doom Kingdom actually almost always signs optional treaties and often stays there. It avoids e-lawyers. We do have two M level treaties. This has the appearance of a treaty holding-pattern; unwilling to commit military force to SNX's defense at this time but unwilling to scrub the relationship completely. See my last point below. Do you want me to expend the effort to put together a list of Polar's poor warfighters during the Doom war? Pointless bravado. No. We have no complaints about Polar as far as them being an alliance that fights well. If nothing else, I think DK and Polar have mutual respect in that area for each other. To everyone: Personally I find "you" - "no, you" arguments regarding military actions extremely boring and (OOC: considering that once learned, it's fairly basic) unnecessary. The ONLY reason, imo, for bothering to do that on the OWF is to bait the other side and even in that area should be done very little. Too much, in my opinion, makes the people who do so on both sides of the conflict look like an egotist. See the SNX-Limitless Nexus war for reference. Yeah pull the other leg Junka, you probably have requested and they denied it or you haven't requested because you know they will deny it. Junka did not request help. In general, there are a number of people who have expressed the opinion to me that Polar attacked SNX for the purpose of playing some sort of treaty manipulation type trick to bait DK into attacking Polar. Considering that we DID have a protectorate with SNX for a long time my personal opinion is that IF that were correct it would of happened sooner. However Polar waited until after we posted the change and personally I respect Polar leadership for waiting. In addition, we do have some M level treaties that, if some alliance were gunning for us, could be used for that purpose. But continue to speculate - I know it is fun. Edited March 30, 2016 by White Chocolate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick GhostWolf Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Doom Kingdom actually almost always signs optional treaties and often stays there. It avoids e-lawyers. We do have two M level treaties. That's exactly what I meant by pragmatic. Keep everything optional and you hold the cards on making decisions and you can't be plied into action. SNX has not requested the military assistance of our several allies and I asked them specifically to not engage because we are not afraid of holding our ground against braggarts and thugs. This is not our first rolling and will not be our last. If we were afraid of fighting I would not have asked for an upgrade from protectorate status. Are all of my members as good at war as our best fighters? No, that is an unreasonable expectation. One thing I am proud of though is the courage of Imperators who fight against overwhelming odds, their dignity in the face of constant insults, their dedication and willingness to fight for eternity to preserve the Imperial Truth against a crass and hateful enemy. I am proud to call them my family. You spin around like a top. Ultimately the performance of your fighters is going to be the measure of their worth, not their "heart". You speak of holding your ground and yet the numbers tell a whole different tale. You have 50 accepted members, 9 members ghosting (some of whom are also burning for you). 18 of your people are in peace mode, the majority of whom are 50k+ NS. Most of the rest of SNX is in anarchy. Counter-declares are sparse and limited wholly to the lower tier. I have visually inspected every war screen and the majority of NpO vs SNX wars thus far show SNX nations either refusing to return fire or being simply outdamaged, with a few notable examples to the contrary. If you call what is very visibly a pile of turtles and peacemoders "dedicated and willing to fight" you are totally delusional. I invite you to do as I have done, inspect the war screens, and actually put action into motion. It's right there for all to see. If you've given an order to stand valiantly your troops are failing to uphold it. If you have not given them this order, you are failing your troops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 That's exactly what I meant by pragmatic. Keep everything optional and you hold the cards on making decisions and you can't be plied into action. You spin around like a top. Ultimately the performance of your fighters is going to be the measure of their worth, not their "heart". You speak of holding your ground and yet the numbers tell a whole different tale. You have 50 accepted members, 9 members ghosting (some of whom are also burning for you). 18 of your people are in peace mode, the majority of whom are 50k+ NS. Most of the rest of SNX is in anarchy. Counter-declares are sparse and limited wholly to the lower tier. I have visually inspected every war screen and the majority of NpO vs SNX wars thus far show SNX nations either refusing to return fire or being simply outdamaged, with a few notable examples to the contrary. If you call what is very visibly a pile of turtles and peacemoders "dedicated and willing to fight" you are totally delusional. I invite you to do as I have done, inspect the war screens, and actually put action into motion. It's right there for all to see. If you've given an order to stand valiantly your troops are failing to uphold it. If you have not given them this order, you are failing your troops. The people who turtle, I've ordered to turtle. The people in peacemode, I've ordered to peacemode. The handful of inactives your buddies like Zoskia point out are just that, inactives, and they don't respond to private messages. Our only fault there is an excess of lenience in regards to discipline. Overall I am pleased with our performance this war,and have no issues taking responsibility as Emperor for both our positive and negative performance therein. In certain ways Polar is doing us a favor by compressing our lower-tier nationstrength, so I am hardly mad at NpO, but I do have disdain for the noisy public display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoskia Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) LOL... this isn't even about "turtling", but about seeing a constant use of unescorted air attacks using 70 bombers against nations with 100 fighters.... They fail, so they purchase again 70 bombers and do it again (?????). An obsession with the weird spy attacks ("Destroy Infra", "incite religious propaganda"... or the classic "destroy generals" ---> "Success, but no generals were found"..... and again: "destroy Generals" ---> Damn, don't you get that there are NO generals with the first message???) And a huge list of etceteras that makes anyone wonder: "Do they have war guides???? Is their Minister of Defense monitoring their wars and helping the ones who have no idea about how the whole thing works?" Edited March 30, 2016 by zoskia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarGod0001 Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 You're one of the people in Polar I liked but again, more pointless chest thumping. The vast majority of our members under attack fight back, but you guys want to make a big deal out of a minority of inactives who just now login after receiving email alerts. Do you want me to expend the effort to put together a list of Polar's poor warfighters during the Doom war? Pointless bravado. Whoa, whoa, whoa!! There was no chest thumping there. I was merely pointing out, after your boisterous "Friends, Romans, Countrymen" speech that not everyone of your nations have taken up the cause. You have the bravado to try and sell this to your members as some sort of righteous fight. That the attack was unwarranted, when the truth is that they are suffering because their leader's ego has put them in this spot. I don't know what lies you feed them, but the rest of us don't eat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes the wise Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 The Flying Kiwis will be watching this conflict in earnest! Lots of Kiwis itching for a good old fashioned scrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihail the Just Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 The Flying Kiwis will be watching this conflict in earnest! Lots of Kiwis itching for a good old fashioned scrap.Don't tell me - let me guess... you're awaiting SNX to weaken us so that Flying Kwis can jump in there and finish us off, claiming victory once and for all.. :)Solid plan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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