Judge X Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 How many of those "new" alliances are led by new leaders? How many alliances have people in their government that have been on Bob for led than 2 years? How many alliance leaders that have been here for than 4 years? Yes this treaty may not last long, but every single new nation, every single utility new alliance is suffocated on the battlefield & in the political arena. Understand I am not talking about/for TPF or our place in the world nor our future. Bob need to become an atmosphere where those of us that have been around for a long time steward in the truly new, let the kids run wild for a time, and make it fun for them politically and/or on the battlefield. I am saying all of this completely neutral. I don't want back in on some level. I don't want any gain for myself or TPF. It is not a personal attack at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) The world is not suffocating because of the treaty web. The world is suffocating due to the exploitation of tech producers. Nothing drives a new nation into inactivity more than realizing that it isn't valued by an alliance "elite" (often just upper tier nations that hide from wars). The treaty web is a good thing because it allows any nation ruler to figure out global politics without having to "know people" or be "part of the clique" (i.e. fossils cited above). Edited January 15, 2016 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) The world is not suffocating because of the treaty web. The world is suffocating due to the exploitation of tech producers. Nothing drives a new nation into inactivity more than realizing that it isn't valued by an alliance "elite" (often just upper tier nations that hide from wars). The treaty web is a good thing because it allows any nation ruler to figure out global politics without having to "know people." Isn't Doom Sphere among the main exploiters of tech dealers? SNX was under heavy attack from them in your "shark week" until you allied & enslaved your alliance to their tech program. Do you guys get at least a slot full of cash for each slot of tech, or is your alliance being exploited? Edited January 15, 2016 by Sephiroth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 SNX independently operates the Interstellar Program, which operates at producerist rates similar to Polaris and Doomsphere: 18/300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 SNX independently operates the Interstellar Program, which operates at producerist rates similar to Polaris and Doomsphere: 18/300 You must be talking about a specific alliance doing this on a wide scale, so who's exploiting the tech sellers & would you ever stand up to them? Â (Although I think I may know who you refer to, if you're talking about an alliance) Â However throwing in clause in a NAP for alliances who don't exploit sellers to agree on continuing what they're already doing won't effect something like this. It would require laying the framework for a color agreement where anyone on the color falls under the optional joint protection of team. If an alliance is being exploited with the threat of attacks if they don't comply, simply by being on Brown we'd be in a position to help them if they deserve it. Â I don't think just saying you think its a problem will be a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 However throwing in clause in a NAP for alliances who don't exploit sellers to agree on continuing what they're already doing won't effect something like this. It would require laying the framework for a color agreement where anyone on the color falls under the optional joint protection of team. If an alliance is being exploited with the threat of attacks if they don't comply, simply by being on Brown we'd be in a position to help them if they deserve it. Â That's exactly what the Imperium does, but we have more sense than to spread ourselves thin protecting everybody. Supernova X and those allies who work with us are enjoying the brown dream. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Holton Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 When people sign treaties like this one - with one side they hate only marginally less than the other - it really calls into question who/what is competing against whom/what. It would be just as interesting (and about as arbitrary) if you all just drew random numbers and then lined up to have an even fight. You've already abandoned any pretense of principle, so what difference does it make who ends up on your side, and who on the other? After all, you're relevant! Â Some consider it in bad taste to leave your alliance and immediately have something bad to say about them. Â How many of those "new" alliances are led by new leaders? How many alliances have people in their government that have been on Bob for led than 2 years? How many alliance leaders that have been here for than 4 years? Yes this treaty may not last long, but every single new nation, every single utility new alliance is suffocated on the battlefield & in the political arena. Understand I am not talking about/for TPF or our place in the world nor our future. Bob need to become an atmosphere where those of us that have been around for a long time steward in the truly new, let the kids run wild for a time, and make it fun for them politically and/or on the battlefield. I am saying all of this completely neutral. I don't want back in on some level. I don't want any gain for myself or TPF. It is not a personal attack at all. Â Â I completely agree with your points that new blood being allowed into leadership is a good thing. The "old guard" mentality combined with the lack of influx of new nations creates a stagnant political environment. Â How can anyone expect to be able to "take a stand" while still functioning as anything more than a target or an irrelevance when it is literally the same people making the calls in politics for years at a time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Moon Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 Â Some consider it in bad taste to leave your alliance and immediately have something bad to say about them. Just signed Polaris up to defend NG. Is concerned about bad taste. Okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Just signed Polaris up to defend NG. Is concerned about bad taste. Okay. Now, who would NG need defending from? I'd think that bloc containing 30% of the total NS in CN would make it so the treaty is of more benefit to Polar than to NG, but what do I know about calculating sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Now, who would NG need defending from? I'd think that bloc containing 30% of the total NS in CN would make it so the treaty is of more benefit to Polar than to NG, but what do I know about calculating sides. A questioning mind would think Polar is being used as a meat shield, because last I heard there was little love for Polar within Oculus, but what would I know about cloak and dagger politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) A questioning mind would think Polar is being used as a meat shield, because last I heard there was little love for Polar within Oculus, but what would I know about cloak and dagger politics. I heard there was little love for Sparta too, and yet VE still signed with them, it's almost like while being a member of a bloc you can still maintain somewhat independent FAs. If Polar was as disliked as some would suggest then MI6 would not have been the victim of the last war. Edited January 16, 2016 by Mogar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 I heard there was little love for Sparta too, and yet VE still signed with them, it's almost like while being a member of a bloc you can still maintain somewhat independent FAs. If Polar was as disliked as some would suggest then MI6 would not have been the victim of the last war. A supremacy bloc wouldn't be that secure without a few useful but disliked outsiders padding the walls when its time to make a move. If it took months of planning for an isolated Mi6 then I dread the time frame it would of took for Polar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 I heard there was little love for Sparta too, and yet VE still signed with them, it's almost like while being a member of a bloc you can still maintain somewhat independent FAs. Â That's been the case all along. Too much overthinking going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 A questioning mind would think Polar is being used as a meat shield, because last I heard there was little love for Polar within Oculus, but what would I know about cloak and dagger politics. A common enemy can be a powerful force in uniting alliances, its very possible both are using each other for a mutual goal. Where that goal lies is yet to be see, but if Oculus' goal is to establish themselves as the current Hegemony without leaving any doubts; I can imagine where this is leading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canik Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Just signed Polaris up to defend NG. Is concerned about bad taste. Okay. Damn, Prodigal! You don't just talk the talk, you walk the walk. Rare to see that these days. Very admirable. o/ Â Now, who would NG need defending from? I'd think that bloc containing 30% of the total NS in CN would make it so the treaty is of more benefit to Polar than to NG, but what do I know about calculating sides. Â How long have you been here Mogar? Still unaware that blocs/hegemonic powers come and go eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Damn, Prodigal! You don't just talk the talk, you walk the walk. Rare to see that these days. Very admirable. o/ Â Â How long have you been here Mogar? Still unaware that blocs/hegemonic powers come and go eh? I've been here long enough to know there's only a few more battles left to fight, and risking a loss at this point in the political game would be unwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dajobo Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 There's some really interesting side debates going on here! Judge I get your point and I feel some sympathy to it but I also know the big picture in politics and any new direction has to start somewhere. Polaris staying isolated wasn't contributing anything towards a changing planet Bob so even by your own metric you should welcome this move. Prodigal Moon once you changed AA you couldn't see your resignation thread but it is filled with good wishes from your comrades in Polaris. You left because you're a man of principles and we respect that, please respect that we've not lost our own principles as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick GhostWolf Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 LOL... You fools don't get what is killing Bob... In order for the Bob to survive there has to be some semblance chance at competition. Oh well, one more nail I guess. Can we call Bob2 Richard? You know long Dick...because someone will be bound from Bob1 to $%&@ it if it were ever to happen. Horrible power mongering treaty that makes for a boring uncompetitive world. If admin took away war on Bob at least 50% of treaties would be cancelled. People would go to TE to blow off steam specially of it had a longer cycle and a limited numbed of nations per alliance.  Actually, most of us play TE because we get to war much, much more often. Makes us better fighters, lets us have fun with the war mechanics it takes years to acquire in SE, and frequently new features hit TE before they hit SE (XP and Generals come to mind) so we get to preview the fun stuff first. Some alliances use TE as a means of "boot-camping" new members, getting them familiar with how to war.   I always knew I would be welcomed back as a hero once more :P  In your dreams, kid. You are openly despised in Polaris.  When people sign treaties like this one - with one side they hate only marginally less than the other - it really calls into question who/what is competing against whom/what. It would be just as interesting (and about as arbitrary) if you all just drew random numbers and then lined up to have an even fight. You've already abandoned any pretense of principle, so what difference does it make who ends up on your side, and who on the other? After all, you're relevant!  Maybe this is about reconciliation, not convenience. Reconciliation is most definitely a principled move. I personally like this, it was unexpected and we may have complicated history with NG but seeing relations between two alliances change from negative to positive seems like a step in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Moon Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Prodigal Moon once you changed AA you couldn't see your resignation thread but it is filled with good wishes from your comrades in Polaris. You left because you're a man of principles and we respect that, please respect that we've not lost our own principles as well. Thanks, Dajobo. I have immense respect for you as well, so I'll try to give you all the benefit of the doubt. I'll really miss being a part of the Polar community. NGW: reconciliation can be admirable, but I'm not opposed to this treaty just due to an NpO-related grudge. And thanks, Canik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick GhostWolf Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Thanks, Dajobo. I have immense respect for you as well, so I'll try to give you all the benefit of the doubt. I'll really miss being a part of the Polar community. NGW: reconciliation can be admirable, but I'm not opposed to this treaty just due to an NpO-related grudge. And thanks, Canik.  I read your goodbye post and I do understand your thought process and respect your decision to leave. You'll be missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Hakai Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Prodigal Moon we will miss you dearly and wish you all the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 When people hate you enough to leave an alliance over it, you know you're doing something right :smug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margrave Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 So who you folks hitting? Not like this is a love match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 I'd call it a respect match, but hey, the OWF thinks what it will so don't let me rain on your collective hate parade :popcorn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Clearly it's all a setup for NG to betray Pacifica, let the second disOrder war begin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.