what if we made a guide?

[Hereno]

one of the big things cnrpa is saying about why they've decided to leave is because "technobabble" and a high level of expertise necessary to compete with some of our more war-savvy players

for example, i remember when triyun offered to do my military for me, and he said it would be way better than mine, and i took it as him trying to fuck with me

but you know what?

he was actually pretty much correct and i know next to nothing about how modern war is fought. had we actually gone to war, i'd have been toasted.

but i think that rather than hampering his and the ability of others to do well in war, we can increase the overall quality of everyone's war by making a sort of war guide for the rp

ideally, in my head, it would provide some basics on how technology is used, perhaps link to a few decent options for boats, planes, etc. and work to prevent common but egregious errors (ie. that stuff where if you forget to do it because you don't know what you're doing, it completely destroys your military and you get shut down)

why do i think it is in our interests to do this? for two reasons

1. having better opponents means that the war game is more fun for everybody
2. it is encouraging to new people if we break down some of the basics and help them along

and i'm more than willing to contribute what i know, which is limited, but i obviously do know some stuff sometimes and i'd be willing to put in a backbone to be expanded on should there be a desire to make a thing like this. but if it's all made by someone like me, then it's going to be necessarily limited by my own inability to war correctly, and so the more collaboration we get, the better the guide will be and the more able it will be to draw on experience - particularly from those of you who have been here a while or whom have made mistakes yourself - in order to keep the guide short but heavily packed with useful information that WILL be relevant in most wars

[Hereno]

not only that, but

1. it would make wars more representative of what would actually happen
2. it would help even our more experienced users as a sort of checklist to go down to make sure they don't forget anything

i really don't think there's a downside to this and so i'm hopeful that there will be a desire to make it happen

not to mention how much rehashing of the same old garbage we can save by just making the guide and pointing to it and it being done

[Voodoo Nova]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/69203-technology-stats-help/

 

I made this thread for CNRP. It has been used as a way to help people make custom designs, but can easily be improved to be a technology guide for non-custom as well.

[Centurius]

A basic guide could work however the best thing probably is to have just a Q&A thread. Reason for this is that modern war is such a large field that it's difficult to truly make an accurate in depth guide, if for example someone wants to know how to best defend against cruise missiles it's a lot easier to list the different methods used and how to use them. I wouldn't have a problem at all answering questions in such a thread.

[Triyun]

"No battle plan survives contact with the enemy." - von Moltke.  

 

Following the Napoleonic Wars there was a religion placed based partially on Jomini's Art of War on getting interior lines on the enemy.  This worked great up until Napoleon III tried it against von Moltke and got eaten alive.  

 

The problem I've seen with this is that people assume when I'm fighting them and give them advice I either deliberately withhold a counter and use it later on, or the advice I give in the aggregate is true and without counters in all context.  There's a certain amount of instinct and theory that goes along with it.  

 

I think IRC is generally better, just talking cause each situation is unique, and frankly if a guide was written, when someone does something outside the conventional wisdom of the guide, someone's going to call god mode, even though the person may have no clue about the ideas which the guide was based on and the nuisances around that.  

 

To me you're on the right track if you think about structuring forces and actions to shorten your ooda lop and expand your opponents.

 

Edit:  Oh also the mm size of whatever ammo your using ranks relatively low on importance, people should remember that.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Triyun

[The Zigur]

I think if people put in the work to learn about military strategy they should be rewarded, not people who treat the roleplay like it's a high school clique. I had my disagreements with Triyun in CNRP1 but that was over the faults in the rules, there weren't any GM corruption issues like CNRP2 when the CNRPA GMs ran the show in a very total fashion.

 

Like I said before the key is establishing a uniform code of military conduct for any of the RP's, with more things on paper. Some whine about "Risk" but it's much better than having to be one of the in-crowd to have military operations go your way. CNRPA has some good rule revisions, but again, that high school clique mentality is rampant again with the GMs there. Dumbing down the "technobabble" to the idiot level is not the answer, alot of us like actual military strategy rather than just rolling dice or relying on often militarily ignorant GMs.

 

Only solution is concrete war standards that can be interpreted by the average roleplayer, and thus cut out alot of the GM middleman action.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[Yerushalayim]

I think we had a thread where people could ask for help in RP'40 with building their military. Something like that could be pretty useful. Or, as has been suggested, just a basic military Q&A type thread where people can go "Hey, do I want SSBNs or SSGNs?" and people can answer. I'd, personally, find it helpful (as I'll readily admit, I'm a navy noob, and frequently ambush more knowledgeable players in order to pick their brains anyway).

[Evangeline Anovilis]

Edit:  Oh also the mm size of whatever ammo your using ranks relatively low on importance, people should remember that.

This, so much. The specifics of rifle ammunition aren't all that important, compared to pretty much anything else.

 

Personally, I've thought about guides in the past, but writing them is a pain. I wrote guides on less extensive fields for CN, which include much less theory and still ended up quite large. I have, in the time I was here, tried at times to pass on some knowledge to people who asked for help and it wasn't easy (nor do I know whether it was effective, given there's been no war of theirs since).

 

Personally, I think the best approach, is to have that Q&A thread and maybe people asking others questions. I don't even know if the war guide would end up much shorter than your average paper (it will surely be shorter than all papers combined), but usually, asking things in person is the best way to get concise and good answers. If the other person knows. I for my part have gained much of what I know from talking to people like Kankou, Shammy, Tanis, MGL and Triyun.

 

Thinking on it, I'm aware that there might be issues with some people having a harder time to get replies and some having an easier time, given I personally, for example, wouldn't respond to a certain few people I hate talking to, but I'd think, most people are fairly tolerant and if some people go through the effort of explaining, it's only fair to expect a certain minimum amount of politeness and respect.

 

Lastly, for a good few of us, don't expect us to be perfect. People who asked me up to now have been given some useful advice, though, I did point out, that it is not invincible and it is more basic. When I talk about military issues, people might think I might withhold information out of a desire to not see people surpass me, and frankly, some extreme ideas for my forces, I rather not teach, given I value my own security, but the better part of why things tend to end up getting neglected is that it'd require lots of time, I don't have a structured curriculum and so much can be forgotten. Also, many still adapt things, as they learn from experience. I have yet to implement lessons learned from my past few wars, for example.

[Yerushalayim]

A bit of a mixed approach could work, too. Have some basic guides, such as descriptions of naval doctrine, that explain the very basics of stuff. And then have the Q&A for anything more advanced.

[Triyun]

That sounds like work and I don't wanna!  Besides lots of naval doctrine is around blockades.  Not super applicable in no resource constraint land.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Triyun