Evangeline Anovilis Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 This isn't about leveling the field, it's about making things suck slightly less for smaller nations. This. The objective is not to make everyone be able to be about equal. It's to rebalance enough, so that small people do matter... if they can play the diplomacy game and get together with others. Currently, a group of small to mid-tier nations might still be unimportant, if they are up against anything significant. But after rebalancing, it would hopefully be rectified. In essence, in the future, decent people, who can read situations and get themselves into a good diplomatic position, will be able to contribute to politics, even if they are at minimum stats. Maybe not much, but they can also not be discounted any longer. Those who maneuver themselves into a dead end as outcasts though, will however not be able to pose a significant threat to others. Smaller RPers thus are encouraged to RP together and cultivate ties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 But the real question is...do I have to wear pants? because the other thread said I don't Could start out everyone having stats off of a 50k ns nation. would level the playing field for smaller nations a bit. Only Sarah is allowed to wear pants. I think Eva and Melech may have the right of it in the sense that many different ways to get to 50k. One system I like but others don't, is to have a bloc of points like CN RP 40 and then ability for your stats to make up any difference, with your stat the maximum. So say a small nation may allocate a lot of points to get 600000 soldiers but could only have 200000 in game. I could also invest in that, but I'm caped at the 2.5 mil or whatever number is my max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangeline Anovilis Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Only Sarah is allowed to wear pants. I think Eva and Melech may have the right of it in the sense that many different ways to get to 50k. One system I like but others don't, is to have a bloc of points like CN RP 40 and then ability for your stats to make up any difference, with your stat the maximum. So say a small nation may allocate a lot of points to get 600000 soldiers but could only have 200000 in game. I could also invest in that, but I'm caped at the 2.5 mil or whatever number is my max. So, what? I first thought you mean a system of having a fixed X points base, with a variable value of Y points based on ingame stats, which you can invest in whatever. But reading your post, I do actually doubt that is what you meant. Care to explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Wait nvm I just found the flaw in my mind. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangeline Anovilis Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I think, a good floor for military should be 250,000 soldiers, with no minimum tanks. The regular 300 aircraft and no minimum ships. This force count is about representative of a nation with around 3k infrastructure. I see this as a decent combat force for anyone below 3k infra. The reason I made no minimum in armour (instead of the corresponding 2,500), is most of all, because the nation in question can decide for themselves whether to stay with the quite sizeable 250,000 soldiers, lacking armoured firepower, or whether to opt for exchanging some of their soldier count for more tanks. Best would be something inbetween, I guess. I mean, you can get 500 tanks for 10,000 soldiers, as per multiplier, so it is perfectly viable to exchange 40,000 soldiers or so for 2,000 tanks and have a smaller army with ore heavy armour, however I'm not so sure people should aim for a great lot of tanks anyway, when in that size bracket. It just seems not survivable and infantry with ATGMs in defensive terrain might be just better off. But others might think different, what do I know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangeline Anovilis Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiserMelech Mikhail Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 If we're going to implement a ground floor for soldiers, I don't think that they should be able to be traded. It's easy enough to draft your population and give them all AKs in real life, stocking up on large numbers of tanks is a bigger issue. You can certainly trade with the number of soldiers that you're allotted through IG stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yawoo Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 If the purpose of reform is to assist lower-tier members, we should eliminate all multipliers, and go back to relying on what we have IG is what we get in CNRP. As usual though, I am in favor of status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 If the purpose of reform is to assist lower-tier members, we should eliminate all multipliers, and go back to relying on what we have IG is what we get in CNRP. As usual though, I am in favor of status quo. How does that assist lowbies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted October 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 How does that assist lowbies? Yeah, multipliers go across the board on most stuff and the only effect of that will be having weird ratios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 If the purpose of reform is to assist lower-tier members, we should eliminate all multipliers, and go back to relying on what we have IG is what we get in CNRP. As usual though, I am in favor of status quo. I tend to agree with others on this point. x10 soldiers helps all evenly. What it does d is enable nations to get bigger. I am against nations getting much smaller than they are now, because that's too much white space, I want people to be next t each other and have reason to trade and interact. RPs about just taking white space are super lamesauce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangeline Anovilis Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 The multipliers aren't really as much what a nation makes strong, than the difference between a small nation and a large nation ingame. Currently, the multipliers allow nations to have decently-sized militaries, with decently-sized airfleets. And in the naval area, they ensure a proper ratio of capital ships to escorts, because otherwise, people would have one escort ship per ship to be escorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentDavid Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 I tend to agree with others on this point. x10 soldiers helps all evenly. What it does d is enable nations to get bigger. I am against nations getting much smaller than they are now, because that's too much white space, I want people to be next t each other and have reason to trade and interact. RPs about just taking white space are super lamesauce. Sometimes it's nice to have neighbors, but I don't remember the last time anyone RPed trade :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted October 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Sometimes it's nice to have neighbors, but I don't remember the last time anyone RPed trade :P It's definitely happened at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangeline Anovilis Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Sometimes it's nice to have neighbors, but I don't remember the last time anyone RPed trade :P I tried selling you tea. I got rolled. I tried buying Padraig's iron, I got kicked out. I tried selling Curristan weapons. He rerolled and never paid. That's why I don't RP much trade. That, and because it's boring to write lines like "Three container ships docked in Tokyo bay. After all papers were checked by the port authority, the enormous harbour cranes were slowly brought into action to unload the hundreds to thousands of containers filled with cheap mass produced Tianxia potatoes/cars/T-shirts/notebook batteries..." Economic RP is fun to do. Sadly, I lost my trade outposts. But (modern) Japan is a nation of maritime trade and peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generalissimo Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Sometimes it's nice to have neighbors, but I don't remember the last time anyone RPed trade :P http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/121514-procinctia-armament-mark-iv-arm-harder/?p=3293965 I hear Generalissimo roleplays trade. Jarl Frost and Generalissimo are doing a joint international trade for Sunday even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Perhaps we should start bringing this to a vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) I'd like to propose the following, in terms of military and multipliers. All nations have a minimum of 200,000 soldiers. Naval Rules 0-4,000 Infra, 0-500 tech: x2 4,001-5,000 Infra, 501-1,000 tech: x3 5,001-6,000 Infra, 1,001-2,000 tech: x4 6,001-infinity Infra, 2,001-infinity: x5 Air Forces 0-5,000 Infra, 0-1,000 tech: x2 5,001-6,000 Infra, 1,001-2,000 tech: x3 6,001-infinity Infra, 2,001-infinity: x4 If you're in different brackets for tech and infra, go with the higher one. Edited October 29, 2014 by Voodoo Nova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Seems reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generalissimo Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'd like to propose the following, in terms of military and multipliers. All nations have a minimum of 150,000-200,000 soldiers. Naval Rules 0-4,000 Infra, 0-500 tech: x2 4,001-5,000 Infra, 501-1,000 tech: x3 5,001-6,000 Infra, 1,001-2,000 tech: x4 6,001-infinity Infra, 2,001-infinity: x5 Air Forces 0-5,000 Infra, 0-1,000 tech: x2 5,001-6,000 Infra, 1,001-2,000 tech: x3 6,001-infinity Infra, 2,001-infinity: x4 If you're in different brackets for tech and infra, go with the higher one. Still doesn't help nations without planes, boats, or aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'd like to propose the following, in terms of military and multipliers. All nations have a minimum of 200,000 soldiers. Naval Rules 0-4,000 Infra, 0-500 tech: x2 4,001-5,000 Infra, 501-1,000 tech: x3 5,001-6,000 Infra, 1,001-2,000 tech: x4 6,001-infinity Infra, 2,001-infinity: x5 Air Forces 0-5,000 Infra, 0-1,000 tech: x2 5,001-6,000 Infra, 1,001-2,000 tech: x3 6,001-infinity Infra, 2,001-infinity: x4 If you're in different brackets for tech and infra, go with the higher one. I'm assuming air forces are squadron multipliers, not in place of a squadron? If so I'm good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Still doesn't help nations without planes, boats, or aircraft. You get the max ig possible aircraft already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Still doesn't help nations without planes, boats, or aircraft. Aircraft you start off with a base of 600 aircraft just by having a nation. What's the issue here. As for boats no you don't have big ships but you have as many shore based missiles, helicopters, missile boats, patrol planes, as you want dictated by common sense plus in Voodoo's iteration 1200 combat aircraft. That's more than enough to patrol an EEZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm assuming air forces are squadron multipliers, not in place of a squadron? If so I'm good. You are correct, it would be squadron multipliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangeline Anovilis Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Are there any further proposals on voting options? Otherwise, tomorrow I'll put it up for vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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