The Discussion Bus

[Yerushalayim]

Yeah. Bump 'em all up by two, except for carriers and subs. :P

[Hereno]

The cap isn't very meaningful when given out of context. At what point would a nation hit that cap?

[Shave N Haircut]

The cap isn't very meaningful when given out of context. At what point would a nation hit that cap?

 

These caps, as they are based on my stats with a little bit of adjustment, would be hit around 50k NS.

[Hereno]

 

These caps, as they are based on my stats with a little bit of adjustment, would be hit around 50k NS.

 

I support it.

[Captain Enema]

I support it. Let's seem a polling option or two.

[Zoot Zoot]

Ok so last night whilst under the influence i had an idea. So here is the proposal.

 

At the moment navies are unbalanced and airforces even more so.

 

So using the present naval system (IG Navies and Mogars point system), I think we should incorporate FHIC's naval proposal of modifiers for destroyers and frigates of *2.

 

This means that small nations who use the points as a method of maintaining a navy, so for example 4000 points allows for six destroyers, using FHIC's modifier, this gets increased to twelve destroyers.

 

For larger nations like myself, it allows us to maintain a larger navy and have realistic fleet compositions based on screen vessels to protect our carriers whilst not granting too much power as to create an unbeatable force.

 

Now then for stage two. Some nations don't need 750k troops. I'm going to be using the British Isles as an example.

 

Using a max cap of 750k troops, 630 aircraft and a small fleet based on the above naval proposal.

 

Britain only needs for example between 100k and 200k soldiers to defend the land territory, its main defence comes in the form of its airforce and navy, but its navy is limited in its operations because of its lack of air cover. So I propose that we be able to substitute soldiers for more aircraft squadrons.

 

Going off my example of a minimal 200k standing army, we have 550k soldiers that are useless. I propose that for every 50,000 soldiers we subtract from our standing army, you can gain five aircraft squadrons.

 

So from 630 aircraft, this can be increased using the above example to 762 aircraft with an additional 11 squadrons of aicraft. This means that britains main defence comes from its navy and airforce, rather than a bloated and useless army which cant target airforces or naval formations.

 

To use another example I will use my own nation as a base.

I have 750k active troops, 460 aircraft (stealth planes count as 2 slots) and three carrier fleets (with 1 carrier per fleet).

 

To defend the territory I have, I need 500,000 men. This leaves me with 250k soldiers that I dont need. This grants me an additional five aircraft squadrons (50 aircraft as my squadrons are ten aircraft, not 12), raising my total airforce to 510 aircraft.

________________

I do realise this may be hard to follow so here it is in plain and simple English. The naval modifier should be a mixture of the current system, and FHIC's modifiers but without the proposed cap.

To bring back the airforce balance, I propose that we be able to sustitute soldiers for extra airfcraft squadrons for military customization. Each 50,000 men you decide you don't want, you get five squadrons of aircraft to replace them with 10,000 soldiers acting as one squadron. You get the picture.

 

This means that a nation like the Phillipines or Britain can have a smaller standing army in favour of greater air power and air cover for their now larger fleets based on the naval modification I'm suggesting to run in tandem with this proposal to their island nation status.

[Lynneth]

I'm not a fan of substitution shenanigans, to be honest, though this might permit some uniqueness between nations.

[Yerushalayim]

Would rather just rebalance the airforce by having each aircraft in the limit count as a squadron, and reduce the total cap of aircraft (that is, less squadrons than 630).

[Zoot Zoot]

So you want a smaller airforce than what we have now?

 

At present, the airforce cap we have is half of what it should be. If we used one IG aircraft as one squadron, nations with all the wonders and improvements would have 1260 aircraft.

[Hereno]

"Should be"

 

Qualify this as something other than wanting to base our IC aircraft off of an arbitrary limit Admin imposed in his game that is much smaller than the one we have for this RP.

[Yerushalayim]

What? Squadrons aren't two planes. Squadrons (at least in American military parlance) are between 12-24 aircraft (bomber squadrons tending to be at the lower end).

[bones wizard]

I support Zoot's proposal

[Zoot Zoot]

Ok so I talked to Mogar and I managed to make my proposal into a simple reading form.

 

prepare for a log dump.

 

Zoot: Mogar:
[5:31pm] Zoot: shall talk in here other channel is getting congested
[5:32pm] Mogar: 12:32:06 <@Uberstein> "more more more"
[5:32pm] Mogar: this is my concern
[5:32pm] Mogar: look at how inflated CNRP1 has become
[5:32pm] Mogar: i dont want to go down that path
[5:32pm] Zoot: My proposal honestly doesnt benefit any one group over another, it simply allows nations to sacrifice strength where its not needed, to reallocate it to somewhere it is.
[5:32pm] Zoot: CNRP1 is out of control with no caps, substitions and insane modifiers
[5:33pm] Mogar: i would definitely get rid of troops for more aircraft
[5:33pm] Zoot: the soldier hard cap for a start massivly prevents abuse
[5:33pm] Mogar: i dont need 680k troops as japan
[5:33pm] Mogar: as having a full compliment of aircraft would be signifigantly more useful
[5:34pm] Zoot: even if you decided to only have a 50,000 man army, that leaves you with 168 extra aircraft
[5:34pm] Zoot: so 798 total aircraft
[5:35pm] Mogar: i would go with more like a 300-400k army tbh
[5:35pm] Zoot: All it is is shifting the weight around to where its needed, and with our current naval rules which is IG+ Points, a nation with no ig navy, but uses his points for five destroyers, can double his destoryer numbers with the modifier
[5:35pm] Mogar: but i get what you are saying
[5:35pm] Zoot: more ships and more aircraft, less ground forces

[Lynneth]

That sounds like it could be good. I support for now.

[Yerushalayim]

Need more hard numbers. Or, need them to be posted again. :P How many troops per aircraft or ship?

[Zoot Zoot]

For christ sakes.

 

The naval rules wont change much with the exception of FHIC's proposal to use a x2 multiplier on destroyers and frigates.

 

The airforce rules currently allow 630 aircraft.

 

But subtracting 50,000 men at a time from your army, you gain five squadrons of aircraft.

10,000 men per ONE squadron, 50,000 men per FIVE squadrons, 100,000 men per TEN squadrons.

 

You get the picture.

[Mogar]

+corvettes

[Zoot Zoot]

+corvettes

 

I would say no, as Corvettes are useless in a fleet role and are only suited for brown water operations or shallow blue water, like littoral combat ships. i can use 12 so far IG, and I dont need any more to be honest.

[PresidentDavid]

What about nukes can they be converted? I could get behind that.

[Mogar]

it isnt about what you want/need, I am saying corvettes were on the list.

[Hereno]

There are too many proposals and everything is so convoluted. Someone needs to grab up the main 2-3 ones and simplify them all in one post that could actually be voted on.

[Lysergide]

Why is the term squadron being thrown around for aircraft, when its being based on actual in game count in addition to the modifier? Not based on squadrons of planes?

[Zoot Zoot]

Lyser I dont know if you have just come straight to the last page and missed everything else. But we are using the term squadron to describe a formation of aircraft ranging between 10 and 12 aircraft. With 1 IG aircraft converted into 10/12 CNRP2 aircraft, up to a maximum cap of 630 as stipulated in the CNRP2 aircraft rule.

[Lysergide]

Lyser I dont know if you have just come straight to the last page and missed everything else. But we are using the term squadron to describe a formation of aircraft ranging between 10 and 12 aircraft. With 1 IG aircraft converted into 10/12 CNRP2 aircraft, up to a maximum cap of 630 as stipulated in the CNRP2 aircraft rule.

 

in-game aircraft limit...

x2 IG numbers 0-2k infra. (realistically 100 to 120 planes) no wonders included
x4 IG numbers 2k to 4k infra. (200 to 240 planes) no wonders included
x6 IG numbers 4k+ infra (300 to 630 planes) with 630 as a max cap including all possible wonders and navy.

 

The Rules stipulate that aircraft = to actual aircraft count, not squadron of 10-12 aircraft. So if you are 3500 infra and have 60 in game aircraft, you would then 240 aircraft. It is based on actual count not a squadron count. You are suggesting that we allow the use of replacing soldiers with planes, while I am not against it, your figures are not related to the current in game rules, 10,000 soldiers = 1 Plane, that would be a better replacement value not a whole squadron of planes. A squadron of planes would allow for bloated airforce figures in comparison to the rules already set up.

[Zoot Zoot]

My proposal is building on the existing rule which you just quoted. I simply work out the rule as IG planes x6 as i have all the improvements etc, so its simpler in my head. Apologies for that not being clear.

 

My proposal is to substitute 10,000 soldiers for 1 squadron of aircraft, a squadron being measured as 10 or 12 aircraft to allow great flexibility. The chatlog with Mogar further up on this page explains the premise in simple terms.

 

Any aircraft gained from swapping soldiers for more planes are added to the maximum of 630 aircraft.