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Round 31 Changes


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I'm thinking of the following changes for Round 31. Your feedback please:

  • No Manhattan project wonder. Replace with EMP Wonder (where nukes can target more technology and less infrastructure and vice versa, players get to decide what they want to target when they launch their nuke). Only top 5% can get nukes.
  • Get rid of the current prize structure. Bring back Most Casualties. Limit alliances in size to 10 members each. Top 3 nations prizes will be determined based on the top 3 nations by nation strength in the alliance that has the Most Alliance Casualties.
  • Can only trade within your alliance.
  • Bring back foreign aid. Can only aid within your alliance.
  • Roll out the war related improvements from SE to TE. Forward Operating Base adds +1 offensive war slot. As such, Forward Operating Base will be more expensive.
  • Roll out the crime index from SE to TE along with it's improvements and the airport improvement.

After reading through the feedback and thinking on things a bit more here's what I'm currently thinking:

  • Regarding Nukes - drop the top 5% requirement, MP will be required by everyone to purchase nukes, nukes cost $500,000 base, and requires 200 tech and 2,000 infras (these are also the same requirements to buy a MP), nuke limit will be 10 (+5 with HNMS)
  • Pentagon allows for +1 offensive war slot.
  • Nukes can target higher tech or higher infras damage based on player choice when launching the nuke.
  • Roll out the war related improvements from SE to TE. Also roll out the airport improvement.
  • Get rid of the current prize structure. Top two prizes will be Most Casualties and Highest Peak Infrastructure. Three additional prizes will be awarded to the top 3 nations by nation strength in the alliance that has the Most Alliance Casualties.

 

Round 31 will begin on Saturday 6/14/14 (mid-morning).

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I'm thinking of the following changes for Round 31. Your feedback please:

  • No Manhattan project wonder. Replace with EMP Wonder (where nukes can target more technology and less infrastructure and vice versa, players get to decide what they want to target when they launch their nuke). Only top 5% can get nukes.
  • Get rid of the current prize structure. Bring back Most Casualties. Limit alliances in size to 10 members each. Top 3 nations prizes will be determined based on the top 3 nations by nation strength in the alliance that has the Most Alliance Casualties.
  • Can only trade within your alliance.
  • Bring back foreign aid. Can only aid within your alliance.
  • Roll out the war related improvements from SE to TE. Forward Operating Base adds +1 offensive war slot. As such, Forward Operating Base will be more expensive.
  • Roll out the crime index from SE to TE along with it's improvements and the airport improvement.

 

 

EMP would be fine.

 

Casualties ftw.

 

Do not limit alliance size and trade. That would literally kill off any AAs that really try hard enough to have temp traders. Either limit Alliance size, or trade only within Alliance.

 

No Foreign Aid, no mercy to people who can't take a little bit more time to be a better builder.

 

Moar offensive slots is awesome.

 

Crime Index will confuse a lot of people, I don't like it.

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I'm thinking of the following changes for Round 31. Your feedback please:

  • No Manhattan project wonder. Replace with EMP Wonder (where nukes can target more technology and less infrastructure and vice versa, players get to decide what they want to target when they launch their nuke). Only top 5% can get nukes.
  • Get rid of the current prize structure. Bring back Most Casualties. Limit alliances in size to 10 members each. Top 3 nations prizes will be determined based on the top 3 nations by nation strength in the alliance that has the Most Alliance Casualties.
  • Can only trade within your alliance.
  • Bring back foreign aid. Can only aid within your alliance.
  • Roll out the war related improvements from SE to TE. Forward Operating Base adds +1 offensive war slot. As such, Forward Operating Base will be more expensive.
  • Roll out the crime index from SE to TE along with it's improvements and the airport improvement.

 

 

First, o/ Almighty Admin. 

 

1. It would be interesting to see what happens with an EMP wonder in the absence of MP. If I read this right, then only people at the top will have access to this technology since only people in the top 5% can get nukes. This would advantage the best building alliances for sure so you should keep this in mind. 

 

2. I love almost everything about this because it feels like the beginnings of an alliance crown. I take issue with the cap on alliance members. TPC has had members who have been in the alliance for years and a cap would almost certainly keep people out. I think the cap should be eliminated or at the very worst tweaked to reflect the reality that some alliances have had long term warriors fighting under their flag. You know I've been babbling about something like this though for years. PLEASE make this happen. This could be the start of something the radically changes this game for the better. 

 

3. Sounds good, especially if you eliminate/raise alliance member cap. Maybe this would make sanctions important again?

 

4. Yes, yes, and yes. This would be huge in building and war. 

 

5. Also agreed. Bringing war related improvements and FOB with the ability to add 1 offensive war slot would change how we think about war in a limited round. 

 

6. No real thoughts on this, but adding things generally is great. 

 

Overall these are thoughtful changes that would change the game for the better and finally incentivize war and playing at a high level. I love it. 

 

We should definitely discuss that cap though.

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The limitation on members in an alliance only seems like it would really work if the number was divisible by 6 when viewed in the context of only being able to trade within your alliance, as practically everyone uses trade circles.  Even then, there are several alliances that are legitimate and prefer to play together round to round (versus 'hashed together a week before the next round to flag-run') and a limitation of 10 per alliance will essentially force them to disband in game.  New Desolate Order, War Doves, Warriors, Roman Empire and NLON all come to mind immediately as AAs with core userbases of over 10 nations (in some cases over 20)  While AAs' on an individual level could "work around" it almost through a brigade system it adds a layer of complexity that seems more likely to drive people away and create friction.

 

I like the "Most Alliance Casualties" concept but seeing as it would depend on some form of equalization in maximum alliance numbers, would it be possible to go based on an average statistic within an individual AA?

 

Not sure how I feel about removing the MP wonder; the EMP wonder seems awesome though.  And I love the Forward Operating Base concept.  Eight wars at once.  /drool

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EMP would be fine.

 

Casualties ftw.

 

Do not limit alliance size and trade. That would literally kill off any AAs that really try hard enough to have temp traders. Either limit Alliance size, or trade only within Alliance.

 

No Foreign Aid, no mercy to people who can't take a little bit more time to be a better builder.

 

Moar offensive slots is awesome.

 

Crime Index will confuse a lot of people, I don't like it.

 

Maybe limit foreign aid to times of war? I can get behind Almighty Admin's idea to limit trade just because if alliances do it right it would literally make high level play impossible for most because those alliances (and you know who they are) would runaway the moment they have enough cash to not be impacted by war. 

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I'm thinking of the following changes for Round 31. Your feedback please:

  • No Manhattan project wonder. Replace with EMP Wonder (where nukes can target more technology and less infrastructure and vice versa, players get to decide what they want to target when they launch their nuke). Only top 5% can get nukes.
  • Get rid of the current prize structure. Bring back Most Casualties. Limit alliances in size to 10 members each. Top 3 nations prizes will be determined based on the top 3 nations by nation strength in the alliance that has the Most Alliance Casualties.
  • Can only trade within your alliance.
  • Bring back foreign aid. Can only aid within your alliance.
  • Roll out the war related improvements from SE to TE. Forward Operating Base adds +1 offensive war slot. As such, Forward Operating Base will be more expensive.
  • Roll out the crime index from SE to TE along with it's improvements and the airport improvement.

 

 

 

Foreign Aid will be exploited bad.  I would keep it simple and keep aid and Crime out.

 

Been asking people and there are two big themes everyone is saying --

1) TE is used to learn how to military

2) Awards need a big revamp.

 

 

In terms of Military

1. Adding a 4th war slot improvement is fun (I would make it a wonder).  But it is great!  

2. Adding EMT is good -- but most people in TE have little tech lots of infra and medium land.  I would try it as multiple types of damage -- standard, more tech and more land option.  I love the idea of an MP free round (30 days?) but if the big allure of TE is to test new military then you need to either  remove the 5% restriction or keep MP's.

3. I would add in the multiple CM's as an option (against planes, or tech or land).  Lets make TE a testing ground of new things so people feel they have enough to try.

4. An SDI reducing avoiding wonder is another one to test and get people to play.

 

 

In terms of awards

1) I like whats suggested, too much they are emphasized on round wide building.  My only fear is if I am debating being in a just for fun aa, that structure says i need to join together with the best fighters to win anything.

2) TB suggested doing casualties and destructive mid round at intervals, most casualties first 30 days, most caualties day 31-60 etc.  I think something like that is worth considering also -- it encourages consistent warring which is needed in the reward system.

3) scrap infra, money, soldiers.  Casualties destruction are the things that should matter besides ns, and they should be small prizes not big ones.

 

 

Also:

1)Trades: They keep people from doing it, its just extra work for a nation that disappears in 60-90 days and gets rolled in 20.  Would try and make them simpler any way possible.

2)Events.  Never considered it, but someone complained about them and I see no reason for them so why not eliminate events?

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This is going to sound silly, but if you add alliance aid, make it so that only larger nations can aid smaller nations.

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No Manhattan project wonder. Replace with EMP Wonder (where nukes can target more technology and less infrastructure and vice versa, players get to decide what they want to target when they launch their nuke). Only top 5% can get nukes.t.

 

I'm very worried about only allowing top 5% access to nukes.  It makes the dominant strategy in a given round to basically not fight, buy nukes, and get more NS to stay in the top 5%.

 

It *really* kills off a lot of incentive for people to fight early on.  After all, why fight if you can risk getting shut out of the top 5% and lose access to the most powerful weapons in TE?

 

 

 

I'm thinking of the following changes for Round 31. Your feedback please:

  • Get rid of the current prize structure. Bring back Most Casualties. Limit alliances in size to 10 members each. Top 3 nations prizes will be determined based on the top 3 nations by nation strength in the alliance that has the Most Alliance Casualties.
  • Can only trade within your alliance.
  • Bring back foreign aid. Can only aid within your alliance.
  • Roll out the war related improvements from SE to TE. Forward Operating Base adds +1 offensive war slot. As such, Forward Operating Base will be more expensive.
  • Roll out the crime index from SE to TE along with it's improvements and the airport improvement.

 

 

The rest of it sounds pretty nice.  Although as Auctor said, only allow larger nations to aid smaller nations.  

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The rest of it sounds pretty nice.  Although as Auctor said, only allow larger nations to aid smaller nations.  

 

Even still, day 1 friends builds up.  You do a 20 day back collect and rake in money up the wazoo.  It just feels too exploitable.

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I'm very worried about only allowing top 5% access to nukes.  It makes the dominant strategy in a given round to basically not fight, buy nukes, and get more NS to stay in the top 5%.

 

It *really* kills off a lot of incentive for people to fight early on.  After all, why fight if you can risk getting shut out of the top 5% and lose access to the most powerful weapons in TE?

 

 

 

The rest of it sounds pretty nice.  Although as Auctor said, only allow larger nations to aid smaller nations.  

 

I get the non MP concerns, but I have seen plenty of times where people who were in the top 5% got locked out after war. That's why the MP was so important. I've always used it as an insurance policy. Also, if we're going to be real, basing winners off of casualties requires just as build-centric strategy as normal NS prizes. You can't fight all round and win a casualty crown. You have to have a highly developed nation first. 

 

Still, I like the aid option, but only in a time of war. Is there a way we can tweak what aid provides?

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Even still, day 1 friends builds up.  You do a 20 day back collect and rake in money up the wazoo.  It just feels too exploitable.

 

A 20 day BC on an initial build won't do much against people who have been building and collecting over the same period (provided there isn't much war). 

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I definitely see these suggestions as a move in the right direction. However I would not limit AAs to 10 as King has stated already there are numerous AAs that have been around for years that maintain more than 10 members doing such a move would leave some long standing players out.

 

I do love the trend towards basing prizes on a team oriented basis.

 

The idea of a 4th offensive war slot is a great one but can it be a wonder?

 

How about eliminating the SDI all together for a round but also limiting nukes to 10 or some number. Too much luck involved in the blocking of nukes as it is.

 

Just my opinion but limiting nukes to just the top 5% may have unforeseen negative effects. I can see the better builders dominating the game and monopolizing nukes and the top 5%, I would keep the MP in order to get people to test out the EMP and regular nukes.

 

I love the idea of foreign aid but I can see how it can be gamed so I will bow to some others for a critique and proposed possible way of implementation without destroying gameplay.

 

Get rid of events in TE.

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I'm thinking of the following changes for Round 31. Your feedback please:

  • No Manhattan project wonder. Replace with EMP Wonder (where nukes can target more technology and less infrastructure and vice versa, players get to decide what they want to target when they launch their nuke). Only top 5% can get nukes.
  • Get rid of the current prize structure. Bring back Most Casualties. Limit alliances in size to 10 members each. Top 3 nations prizes will be determined based on the top 3 nations by nation strength in the alliance that has the Most Alliance Casualties.
  • Can only trade within your alliance.
  • Bring back foreign aid. Can only aid within your alliance.
  • Roll out the war related improvements from SE to TE. Forward Operating Base adds +1 offensive war slot. As such, Forward Operating Base will be more expensive.
  • Roll out the crime index from SE to TE along with it's improvements and the airport improvement.

 

1. With only the top 5% having nukes this what is going to happen: the top players with nukes would raid anybody without nukes with nearly zero risk of retribution. Most AA wars would be one-way. Both TE veterans and new players would stand no chance and would leave in droves. I would.

Estimated TE numbers after that - 200/300 :P

EMP is fine

 

2. I don't care about the prizes. Limiting AA numbers would be bad. People join certain AAs for a reason, because they like the culture there. If you introduce 10 membership caps, I'll tell you what happens: Big AAs would divide themselves into AA branches, which would not be independent, but would be under the same leadership and would be just  tools to achieve certain goals for the "mothership" AA. TE would become a less fair place yet again.

 

3. Trade only within one AA? Why to inflict more pain? It's the same like we were stuck with the same resources for the entire round and couldn't change them. Less fun, more tedious.

 

4. Foreign aid? Good for flag runners, I guess. Not interested

 

5.War-related improvements are worth a try.

 

6. No idea how crime rate and airports work, so can't contribute here. 

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6. No idea how crime rate and airports work, so can't contribute here. 

 

Airport makes planes cheaper to buy (and a very minor upkeep saving).

 

 

Crime is complicated in contrast.

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Could be fun. If keeping trade in AA only I would at least raise AA cap to 12? people probably want more like 18 or 24.

 

Only top 5% for nukes will be interesting, very interesting.

 

Can we hold the crime index off for another round, as some still strugle to build a nation, and Ive only collected once in SE since that was brought in.

 

Aid can be good, I dont see why you would cripple a nations growth to serve a big nations interest anyways. I would want the smaller nation to "catch up"

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I'm thinking of the following changes for Round 31. Your feedback please:

  • No Manhattan project wonder. Replace with EMP Wonder (where nukes can target more technology and less infrastructure and vice versa, players get to decide what they want to target when they launch their nuke). Only top 5% can get nukes.
  • Get rid of the current prize structure. Bring back Most Casualties. Limit alliances in size to 10 members each. Top 3 nations prizes will be determined based on the top 3 nations by nation strength in the alliance that has the Most Alliance Casualties.
  • Can only trade within your alliance.
  • Bring back foreign aid. Can only aid within your alliance.
  • Roll out the war related improvements from SE to TE. Forward Operating Base adds +1 offensive war slot. As such, Forward Operating Base will be more expensive.
  • Roll out the crime index from SE to TE along with it's improvements and the airport improvement.

 

 

1. Could be interesting for a round.  Consider eliminating SDI wonder as well however.

2. Ok, but...

3. If you only allow trading within an alliance, the limit of alliance size should be divisible by 6 for obvious reasons.

4. You're inviting people to create nations solely to act as tech farms.

5. yes!

6. and yes again

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I'm thinking of the following changes for Round 31. Your feedback please:

  • No Manhattan project wonder. Replace with EMP Wonder (where nukes can target more technology and less infrastructure and vice versa, players get to decide what they want to target when they launch their nuke). Only top 5% can get nukes.
  • Get rid of the current prize structure. Bring back Most Casualties. Limit alliances in size to 10 members each. Top 3 nations prizes will be determined based on the top 3 nations by nation strength in the alliance that has the Most Alliance Casualties.
  • Can only trade within your alliance.
  • Bring back foreign aid. Can only aid within your alliance.
  • Roll out the war related improvements from SE to TE. Forward Operating Base adds +1 offensive war slot. As such, Forward Operating Base will be more expensive.
  • Roll out the crime index from SE to TE along with it's improvements and the airport improvement.

 

1.Maybe make the top 10% able to buy nukes

2. We would have to kick members we had for years to keep it at 10 members. The lowest i would go is 25.

3. I am ok with this.

4. maybe only the big can aid the small.

5. TE is a testing ground

6  This could be to complex.

Edited by dogbite
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SDI is pure luck, but it is a part of the game that must be dealt with and planned around when doing target lists. 

 

MP is needed, just look at last round. TEPD utterly destroyed Roman Empire and Skaro during our first war, neither alliance had nations in the top 5% (or very little) until very late into the round. If they didn't have access to an MP, they would be at a great disadvantage to anyone that didn't get hurt as bad first war or that didn't even fight a first war at all. With that said, people would be inclined to large downdeclares to save pixels or not declaring war at all to be able to stay within nuclear buying range.

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  • No Manhattan project wonder. Replace with EMP Wonder (where nukes can target more technology and less infrastructure and vice versa, players get to decide what they want to target when they launch their nuke). Only top 5% can get nukes.

I don't now about this EMP, it sounds like it will add more offensive strategy.

The top 5% only getting nukes is good and bad for various reasons, lets trial it for a round.

  • Get rid of the current prize structure. Bring back Most Casualties. Limit alliances in size to 10 members each. Top 3 nations prizes will be determined based on the top 3 nations by nation strength in the alliance that has the Most Alliance Casualties.

We should have a balance of prizes for Econ and War. Most Casualties, most definitely.

I'd increase alliance member count up to 15. This will make alliance wars more fair and as a result, we might see less crying on the owf. I make no promises.

Can you just make a rule so nations from different alliances cannot get together near the end of the round to win "Most Alliance Casualties". Otherwise, I'm sure this is how it will be exploited among groups of friends from various alliances.

  • Bring back foreign aid. Can only aid within your alliance.

Just as long as it has caps and just to throw out some numbers. Only money can be sent, max of 3 mil, 1 slot every 10 days, 2 slots with the Foreign Aid Commission wonder and your nation must be 15 days old to send or receive foreign aid.

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Whatever the changes, please let us know when the round starts, admin.

 

I realize I'm being mostly on the negative side, but a lot of changes which had been suggested in the initial post by admin give a lot of room for the game abuse. I'm sure those who are flag running and playing SE (knowing how to use Foreign Aid ect) can see even more loopholes than I.

 

I guess we'll deal with whatever admin would throw at us - not much choice.

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This idea is really what i'd like to see implemented.

 

Get rid of the current prize structure. Bring back Most Casualties. Limit alliances in size to 10 members each. Top 3 nations prizes will be determined based on the top 3 nations by nation strength in the alliance that has the Most Alliance Casualties.

 

 

I'd just add a lock out time frame. For example, 2 weeks before the round resets, no nation can join any alliance.

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