IRON is the new ODN?

[milkmanrox100]

IRON is doing what IRON always does.  realpolitics

 

On a side note, Rotavele: as Lord High Regent of the Grand Global Alliance alliance affiliation, I demand that you remove "Grand Global Alliance" from your Alliance Name forum field. 

[trimm]

I for one am happy to see that someone on this God forsaken hunk of rock had the courage to actually invoke a non chaining clause and stand by it.

[Omniscient1]

Yeah, if there was ever a reason to abandon a side it was because of how LoSS decided to conjure a treaty to hit IRON solely for the purpose of being able to be on the other side. They basically hit NG unprovoked with no treaty though they want to claim they have one. That IRON would decline that activation is about as pathetic as it gets. If you're wondering I haven't cared for LoSS in a long long time and have wished the treaty gone for just as long. Years by now. They had sympathizers in GATO until this pathetic stunt. I hope I finally get that cancellation. Do the right thing IRON. Roll those little shits.

To be fair, it's far more complicated than that given one of IRON's treaty partners were already on that front, and .....other things. I'm with you though. That was pretty patheticLoSS.

[Rayvon]

To be fair, since they were informed many days in advance by IRON where they stand then NG should of cancelled the treaty... You could say they used each other.

Except that IRON was actively plotting against NG and her allies, not just simply telling them they shouldn't be on the other side because they didn't want to be there or didn't agree. Since they were already apart of that other coalition, they should have at some point or some manner said 'hey - this is going to happen. We're involved.' but instead they kept playing games with NG and pretending to care about the relationship and that everything was kosher. If they really did care, at some point they would have had a shred of honesty dribble out between their gums.

It's a very large difference from not wanting to be on 'this side' of the war because some of you don't like NSO than it is to simply shrug your shoulders as your ally is attacked out of the blue in attachment to the situation you helped create. ['you' general, not 'you' specifically down at this point, rebel]

IRON was 100% on board with everything that was going on, and was alright until "2 days before the war when the targets got changed" but couldn't at any point say shit, and couldn't stand up for themselves when they got played - decided to just sit and play with themselves instead.

Some bits remind me of our Legion war, TPF seemed to know what was up ahead of time - but it was Pez (or maybe Tyga?? I'm 95% sure Pez though, and 300% sure it was STA) that actually contacted me and told me. Edited November 16, 2013 by Rayvon

[Montosh]

Except that IRON was actively plotting against NG and her allies, not just simply telling them they shouldn't be on the other side because they didn't want to be there or didn't agree. Since they were already apart of that other coalition, they should have at some point or some manner said 'hey - this is going to happen. We're involved.' but instead they kept playing games with NG and pretending to care about the relationship and that everything was kosher. If they really did care, at some point they would have had a shred of honesty dribble out between their gums.

 

Actively plotting against NG and her allies? Please, at least stick to the truth.

[Aegon Targaryen]

To be honest, I can't find fault with IRON's logic. NG made their bed, IRON warned them about the consequences yet NG still expected IRON to hop in the bed beside them when the going got rough?

How on any level of intelligence is considered a rational thought? That's like having a friend get in a car after drinking a bottle of scotch and forcing you to get in with him because he doesn't want to be alone when he wraps the front end of the car around a tree.

Madness.

[magicninja]

To be fair, it's far more complicated than that given one of IRON's treaty partners were already on that front, and .....other things. I'm with you though. That was pretty patheticLoSS.

 

 

It's not very complicated. I in no way would want to be associated with a coalition who decided to pull that kind of stunt to hit one of my allies. I would have taken my ball to the other side real quick. It's not only LoSS. VE decided it would be a good idea to be the patsy for LoSS' shenanigans. IRON should be dominating both of them for that shit. They invented a treaty to dogpile your ally for fucks sake.....and you're really ok with that?

[Rayvon]

Actively plotting against NG and her allies? Please, at least stick to the truth.

[19:58] BaronAaron[IRON] becasue for months we told you this was going to happen
[19:58] BaronAaron[IRON] because for months your old gov put you in a bad posisiton
[19:58] BaronAaron[IRON] because we have committed to the otherside
[19:58] BaronAaron[IRON] and we arent switching sides in the middle of a war
[19:58] BaronAaron[IRON] because i have allies on both sides
[19:59] BaronAaron[IRON] because as this war took off in a different direction than the one IRON had planned
[19:59] BaronAaron[IRON] word was sent to NG
[19:59] BaronAaron[IRON] and they disreguarded siad message
-----
[20:03] Old man Derwood1[NG] <BaronAaron[IRON]> we did choose our side a long time ago
[20:03] Old man Derwood1[NG] yet you kept our treaty
[20:03] Old man Derwood1[NG] in bad faith
[20:04] Old man Derwood1[NG] seriously
[20:04] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Exactly.
[20:04] Old man Derwood1[NG] your are a liar
[20:04] Old man Derwood1[NG] and untrustworthy
[20:04] Old man Derwood1[NG] can we get someone else to talk to or are you par forr the course these days at IRON
[20:04] Old man Derwood1[NG] you used us
[20:04] Old man Derwood1[NG] you just admitted it
[20:05] BaronAaron[IRON] yes. TOP and friends were coming after you. All of our talks (brief they were) where about them coming after you and IRON saying we do not have your backs on this one. Your old gov spit in our faces and now here we are. We tried to change this whole war. You all jumped in with 2 feet.
-----
20:06] Old man Derwood1[NG] you set us up
[20:06] Old man Derwood1[NG] you are no better then Grub
[20:07] BaronAaron[IRON] we set up a brawl between NG and TOP
[20:07] BaronAaron[IRON] then things changed 2 days prior to the DoWs
[20:07] BaronAaron[IRON] and the set up changed and you all had 2 choices
[20:07] BaronAaron[IRON] let NSO burn
[20:07] BaronAaron[IRON] or jump in with both feet
[20:07] BaronAaron[IRON] now you are balls deep in the !@#$ and i cant help
[20:08] Old man Derwood1[NG] no you won't help
[20:08] BaronAaron[IRON] i concur IRON will not help militarily

Sure Montosh. Just tell me when you want me to stop being honest.

[Corinan]

IRON has more treaties on the polar side. It was obvious when NG and NSO started this war for the lulz

 

Speaking from experience, you should wait at least a few months before you start retconning. I mean Polaris' declaration on us is still readily visible and everything.

 

I'll leave it at that. You may resume your finger painting.

[the rebel]

Except that IRON was actively plotting against NG and her allies, not just simply telling them they shouldn't be on the other side because they didn't want to be there or didn't agree. Since they were already apart of that other coalition, they should have at some point or some manner said 'hey - this is going to happen. We're involved.' but instead they kept playing games with NG and pretending to care about the relationship and that everything was kosher. If they really did care, at some point they would have had a shred of honesty dribble out between their gums.

 

Plotting and back room deals happen all the time around the globe which is nothing new and the logs seem to show NG wasn't surprised by those "revelations" from IRON which makes the outsider think they already knew about them, but still kept the treaty and by the looks of it still hasn't been cancelled by either party.

 

It's a very large difference from not wanting to be on 'this side' of the war because some of you don't like NSO than it is to simply shrug your shoulders as your ally is attacked out of the blue in attachment to the situation you helped create. ['you' general, not 'you' specifically down at this point, rebel]

 

It seems to be subjective on whether they was attacked out of the blue or attacked following a hard to find treaty/contract/agreement. If you are on the latter then IRON are simply using the non-chaining clause.

Edited November 16, 2013 by the rebel

[Montosh]

Sure Montosh. Just tell me when you want me to stop being honest.

 

So you're proving what exactly? That council tried to warn them that they needed to stop the direction they were going in? Letting them know beforehand that we wouldn't come in and defend them if they continued?

 

Please. Misrepresentation is dishonest.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Montosh

[Rayvon]

Plotting and back room deals happen all the time around the globe which is nothing new and the logs seem to show NG wasn't surprised by those "revelations" from IRON which makes the outsider think they already knew about them, but still kept the treaty and by the looks of it still hasn't been cancelled by either party.
 
 
It seems to be subjective on whether they was attacked out of the blue or attacked following a hard to find treaty/contract/agreement. If you are on the latter then IRON are simply using the non-chaining clause.

Agreed, not new at all. But that still doesn't change the fact that IRON flat out played NG and blames NG. Going back again, it's known that NG was lockstep with NSO when the supposed cause of this war took place (NG/NSO/NPO backroom plotting, again I agree it's nothing new in this world). IRON knew that NG allies (NSO) were going to be attacked, and took side on the attack and even went as far as saying they could let us burn or not. NG has more gumption than that. NG signed a treaty, and they stuck to the word of their treaty. They weren't going to be bullied off doing the right thing.

[The Big Bad]

I just do not see why IRON would screw over an ally so it could be commited to a side that wants to see them rolled.  Did they think that this would some how appease them?  Because it sure does not seem to have and now nobody is going to back them.   

[Omniscient1]

 
 
It's not very complicated. I in no way would want to be associated with a coalition who decided to pull that kind of stunt to hit one of my allies. I would have taken my ball to the other side real quick. It's not only LoSS. VE decided it would be a good idea to be the patsy for LoSS' shenanigans. IRON should be dominating both of them for that shit. They invented a treaty to dogpile your ally for fucks sake.....and you're really ok with that?

You of all people really shouldn't be talking about how bad it is to leave allies on the battlefield and do nothing no matter who else is on that side.

Anyway, I can't envy IRON or NG right now. I've experienced both sides of situations like this and it's not fun for anyone.

[magicninja]

You of all people really shouldn't be talking about how bad it is to leave allies on the battlefield and do nothing no matter who else is on that side.

Anyway, I can't envy IRON or NG right now. I've experienced both sides of situations like this and it's not fun for anyone.

 

Do nothing is fine...its what they did that was the problem. Had they done nothing...hell with it but that's not what they did right?

[Rayvon]

So you're proving what exactly? That council tried to warn them that they needed to stop the direction they were going in? Letting them know beforehand that we wouldn't come in and defend them if they continued?
 
Please. Misrepresentation is dishonest.

Do continue that thought .... "Letting them know beforehand that we wouldn't come in and defend them ... from the war that we were part of planning against their ally"

Misrepresentation is dishonest, yes. IRON misrepresented herself here clearly, only warning off from going down that road but not being honest about why. (they 'why' is important because, while you post-start of war said your hands were tied when plans changed and you still went along on the string TOP is pulling, your treaty has an intel clause and you were part of the planning) Edited November 16, 2013 by Rayvon

[Omniscient1]

 
Do nothing is fine...its what they did that was the problem. Had they done nothing...hell with it but that's not what they did right?

No they did do something. They tried to get LoSS peaced out with NG, which was rejected by NG. So they certainly did "something" while maintaining their commitments to everyone involved. I can't say it was a perfect decision, but it was certainly better than refusing to help because an alliance they never had a run in with was on that side.

[Montosh]

Do continue that thought .... "Letting them know beforehand that we wouldn't come in and defend them ... from the war that we were part of planning against their ally"

Misrepresentation is dishonest, yes. IRON misrepresented herself here clearly, only warning off from going down that road but not being honest about why. (they 'why' is important because, while you post-start of war said your hands were tied when plans changed and you still went along on the string TOP is pulling, your treaty has an intel clause and you were part of the planning)

 

Oh, we helped plan this war did we? So you're under the impression that IRON has secretly been plotting against NG? Not sure how you came to that conclusion. If you find any actual evidence for that, do let me know.

[Rayvon]

No they did do something. They tried to get LoSS peaced out with NG, which was rejected by NG. So they certainly did "something" while maintaining their commitments to everyone involved. I can't say it was a perfect decision, but it was certainly better than refusing to help because an alliance they never had a run in with was on that side.

Back it up a step though.

This is IRON saying "don't go that road, it won't end well" as they've been apart of chats. These chats were in rebuttal to finding out about plotting against Polar.

A few things to look at:

IRON treaties


A notable lack of Polar here, a notable lack of anyone on the 'other side' of the war UNTIL the war actually started from Polar hitting NSO.

Polar treaties


No IRON here.

TOP treaties


No IRON here.

FARK treaties
http://i.imgur.com/RndCyPp.png

No IRON here.


If this entire war was due to "NSO plotting against NpO" then there's absolutely no obligated reason for IRON to not stand by her word. IRON made the choice to go to that side knowing they were only retaliating against the planning against Polar.

There's a few lines missing between the last few months, and the start of this war.

[Montosh]

Well IRON does actually have a treaty with FARK. Guess their wiki page isn't updated.

[Omniscient1]

Back it up a step though.This is IRON saying "don't go that road, it won't end well" as they've been apart of chats. These chats were in rebuttal to finding out about plotting against Polar.A few things to look at:IRON treatiesA notable lack of Polar here, a notable lack of anyone on the 'other side' of the war UNTIL the war actually started from Polar hitting NSO.Polar treatiesNo IRON here.TOP treatiesNo IRON here.FARK treatieshttp://i.imgur.com/RndCyPp.pngNo IRON here.If this entire war was due to "NSO plotting against NpO" then there's absolutely no obligated reason for IRON to not stand by her word. IRON made the choice to go to that side knowing they were only retaliating against the planning against Polar.There's a few lines missing between the last few months, and the start of this war.

FARK and IRON are allies. I'm not sure what you're getting at with this. You're going to have to say it without all the pictures or something. As I said IRON has tried helping NG, somewhat, with the LoSS thing, but it was rejected. I'm not making excuses 100% for IRON, but it's certainly not a one direction problem. Edited November 16, 2013 by Omniscient1

[Rayvon]

FARK and IRON are allies. I'm not sure what you're getting at with this. You're going to have to say it without all the pictures or something. As I said IRON has tried helping NG, somewhat, with the LoSS thing, but it was rejected. I'm not making excuses 100% for IRON, but it's certainly not a one direction problem.

Fark had nothing to do with it till they came along on an oA with Polar against NSO.

[Omniscient1]

Fark had nothing to do with it till they came along on an oA with Polar against NSO.

Oh come on. That is one hell of a double standard. Plotting against NSO means you are by extention plotting against NG, but plotting against Polar doesn't mean you're plotting against FARK? Just get out of this Rayvon, you're smarter than this.

Again, I hope IRON and NG fix their roblems and move forward from here on out, but this entire thread is riddled with half truths and misconceptions.

[Aegon Targaryen]

Fark had nothing to do with it till they came along on an oA with Polar against NSO.

So basically what you are saying is IRON in response to the LoSS attack were attempting to apply a band aid to a ten inch laceration that they, IRON had helped create in the first place?

[Feanor Noldorin]

 
:rolleyes: .Oh I'm certain my handling of this war would have made things much worse for TOP.

You certainly tried to make things worse for us in the Dave War, when we were still allied to one another. It's funny how in a later post you are the ones calling us the snakes.

I've found IRONs new government to be a vast upgrade from the old one. They'd done quite well on their own and I'm sure they will continue to do well.