IRON is the new ODN?

[Chimaera]

Things Max Power just taught me: MI6 is at war with Non Grata.  Neat.

 

Let me be frank - MI6 has been liberal with our criticism of people during this war, and it is most assuredly not restricted to IRON.  So thank you for assuming malicious intent, Crab, but MI6's only goal is to win this war.  Everything else is secondary.

I'm certain it is secondary to winning this war Chim but secondary objectives logically move up the ladder when other more pressing concerns are out of the way.

 

I will not deny that I am in possession of secondary objectives, Crab, but I will certainly deny that IRON has anything to do with the ones I possess.  In fact, until this war began MI6 thought little of the petty TOP-IRON quarrels and even less regarding IRON in general. 

 

I do not know how the future will play out, but I do know that attempting to play both sides against one another only ensures mutual, unnecessary, illogical enmity.  There is no reason for what has transpired these past few days.

[the rebel]

Its fun watching e-lawyers argue about the validity of the non-chaining clause and others in this situation, I'm surprised they never bring up the signatures on said treaties for e-lawyering when talking about legality.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

I would love to see if you maintained that exact opinion if your coalition wasnt the beneficiary of the clearly moronic move by LOSS. Deep down, I know the answer. And you, my friend, try too hard.

To be fair, his comment is right. People *did* approve of FAN's way of doing politics by acknowledging their entrance as legit, despite the lack of visible treaties.

 

That said, I do think it's an incredibly retarded way of doing business and hope it doesn't become the norm.

[Rush Sykes]

To be fair, his comment is right. People *did* approve of FAN's way of doing politics by acknowledging their entrance as legit, despite the lack of visible treaties.

 

That said, I do think it's an incredibly retarded way of doing business and hope it doesn't become the norm.

 

I know FAN. LoSS is no FAN. FAN at least manned up and said "we don't need no stinkin' treaties." LoSS... who had long time treaty ties to the losing side, wanted to be on the winning side.. and MADE UP a treaty that got them in.

[Delta1212]

To be fair, his comment is right. People *did* approve of FAN's way of doing politics by acknowledging their entrance as legit, despite the lack of visible treaties.
 
That said, I do think it's an incredibly retarded way of doing business and hope it doesn't become the norm.

FAN is an atypical case. I think they earned a few privileges that don't necessarily apply to everyone else. Edited November 16, 2013 by Delta1212

[Grayshadow]

Your entitled to that opinion buddy, I had more pressing other world concerns at the time, these things happen, in any case it wasn't IRON's contribution to that war that caused it to fizzle out (we did alot more than others around us) although my lack of presence during the peace talks was a disruption for everyone involved. But hey at least I took the shot and I was able to rationalize doing so. I would also point out I was one council member in a council of equals, that I took on more responsibility reflected my desire to achieve the best I could for IRON. I did my best and damn sight more than most ever will do. I think your post is fairly unflattering about the 3 years of work I did to rebuild IRON from the war ravage wreck I inherited it in after Bi-Polar but hey we will let history be the judge.

 

In any case this isn't about me, if your comfortable with your councils decision then that is your prerogative.

 

I was referring to your statement that I quoted nothing else. What you did for most of your time in IRON was awesome and earned my respect. Your accomplishments, along with the rest of IRON council were many.  I disagree with some of your actions lately but that does not lessen your earlier accomplishments. I have my opinion, You have yours.

 

The treaty should have been honored whether it was convenient or not, by failing to honor it the standing IRON Council is in breach of the IRON charter. The standing council has acted with general incompetence since the start of this conflict and is unfit to lead.

 

As a result IRON is up shit creak without a paddle and is now a sitting duck for its enemies who are already circling despite being involved in a sizable conflict.

 

It is hard to imagine how anybody could have handled this war worse than the IRON Council has.

 

I find it strange that you didn't feel that way the numerous times, when you were on IRON council and IRON's president, that you failed to honor the IRON - R&R MDP. That treaty did not have a non-chaining clause at all. According to your quote above you feel IRON should have. So you and IRON council were in breach of the IRON charter, in your opinion, how many times? I lost track but quite a few. There was always some discussion in IRON whenever IRON and R&R ended up on opposite sides of a war. Which was every war.

[AndrewHG]

Those logs were leaked either way. A swipe too far.

[ditchboy00]

This is suppossed to be one of Polar/TOP's (our) coalition leaders.

 

I'd be so happy if we did a bipolar and hit your alliance instead.

Dont worry that is next war. 

[The Big Bad]

I know FAN. LoSS is no FAN. FAN at least manned up and said "we don't need no stinkin' treaties." LoSS... who had long time treaty ties to the losing side, wanted to be on the winning side.. and MADE UP a treaty that got them in.

 

That is what LoSS does.  It is what they are known for. IRON on the other hand is an allaince people had respect for even if the did not like them.  At least up until now.  Now they are just screwed.  

[Mogar]

We don't even have a drum to beat a tune on. We have been supportive of IRON in this thread. Who people do and do not cast aspersions on is a matter well beyond my control.

It does make sense to plan the next war while we're still in this one, it's one of the biggest failures of EQ, in my opinion, the coalition turned on each other before peace was even reached,

[Delta1212]

It does make sense to plan the next war while we're still in this one, it's one of the biggest failures of EQ, in my opinion, the coalition turned on each other before peace was even reached,

eQ nothing. CN players, with rare exceptions, are notoriously bad at "winning the peace." Basking in victory is more fun than properly positioning yourself straight out of the gate. It's like skipping the payoff for all the hard work you did on the last war to dive right into the hard work for the next one.

Which is, of course, what everyone should be doing. It's easier not to, though, so most don't.

[IYIyTh]

eQ nothing. CN players, with rare exceptions, are notoriously bad at "winning the peace." Basking in victory is more fun than properly positioning yourself straight out of the gate. It's like skipping the payoff for all the hard work you did on the last war to dive right into the hard work for the next one.

Which is, of course, what everyone should be doing. It's easier not to, though, so most don't.

 

I would agree if the war were over already.

 

Seriously, what are we, in round two?

[AndrewHG]

EQ was just one big smoke and fire factory. Nothing changed.

[EgoFreaky]

I find it strange that you didn't feel that way the numerous times, when you were on IRON council and IRON's president, that you failed to honor the IRON - R&R MDP. That treaty did not have a non-chaining clause at all. According to your quote above you feel IRON should have. So you and IRON council were in breach of the IRON charter, in your opinion, how many times? I lost track but quite a few. There was always some discussion in IRON whenever IRON and R&R ended up on opposite sides of a war. Which was every war.

To be fair IRON-R&R always had a mutual understanding of the situation and it went both ways, none of us ever requested each others help during those days. On top of that no one ever jumped on R&R in the way LoSS came in on NG.

Anyway the rest of that discussion i'll leave up to you guys, just wanted to make that clear.

[Azaghul]

Calling IRON the "new ODN" in a bad way is wrong because the "Optional Defense Network" thing hasn't been true for about 5 years.  ODN has been very loyal to its allies and a tenacious fighter for years.  One of the best in the world.  People need to get a new line.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

I know FAN. LoSS is no FAN. FAN at least manned up and said "we don't need no stinkin' treaties." LoSS... who had long time treaty ties to the losing side, wanted to be on the winning side.. and MADE UP a treaty that got them in.

The result is the same.

 

While FAN is now completly out of the spotlight, for a while, they had "friends" in various alliances. One could most definitely argue that keeping their real intentions as vague as possible was done for realpolitik reasons.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Yevgeni Luchenkov

[Incitatus]

On the other hand, act like jerks to everyone and then be surprised no one wants to help you.

 

Then why not cancel the treaty? There's no point on having a treaty if it isn't going to be honored. Unless of course you're being a douche/user.

 

 

Poor show IRON.

[Omniscient1]

Best thing about this thread is seeing MCRABT post again. I've missed you man. Don't be a stranger.

Anyway, IRON are great people and good allies. I have no idea about their private relationship with NG, but I hope they both remain friends after this war. Begrudgingly I've began to see NG as a better alliance than what I used to consider them. Too bad I think they still have terrible opinions of me.

Anyway, people for years have been attacking the way we do treaties. They whine that you have to have a treaty to join a war, they whine when you don't honor ODPs even when they are optional, they whine when you invoke non-chaining clauses. It's pretty obvious at this point treaties are basically fluid guidelines, and that has just as much to do with theculture of people claiming they don't need legal justifications to act as it does with people not honoring treaties. Pretty pathetic state, but we've all contributed it to this problem.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Omniscient1

[Ardus]

eQ nothing. CN players, with rare exceptions, are notoriously bad at "winning the peace." Basking in victory is more fun than properly positioning yourself straight out of the gate. It's like skipping the payoff for all the hard work you did on the last war to dive right into the hard work for the next one.

Which is, of course, what everyone should be doing. It's easier not to, though, so most don't.

But winning the peace is my favorite part :(

[han fei zi]

"[20:02] Old man Derwood1[NG] this is amateur hour Steve_Buscemi[NG]

 
[20:02] Old man Derwood1[NG] whoops wrong room" 

 

Bring back bay. current IRON sucks. 

[the rebel]

Then why not cancel the treaty? There's no point on having a treaty if it isn't going to be honored. Unless of course you're being a douche/user.

 

 

Poor show IRON.

 

To be fair, since they were informed many days in advance by IRON where they stand then NG should of cancelled the treaty... You could say they used each other.

[dvdcchn]

Experience is largely irrelevant, what validates any view point is its ability to stand up to rebuttal, what disappoints me the most is the failure of the standing council to explain how its recent decisions are in the best interest of IRON. In failing to offer this rational they have simply failed to contest the validity of my view point at all. Manifested, this type of negligence results in extremely poor decisions and that is why we have this thread.

 

be careful friend, they label you a traitor and ban you for life for such talk.....

[Third King]

Then why not cancel the treaty? There's no point on having a treaty if it isn't going to be honored. Unless of course you're being a douche/user.

 

 

Poor show IRON.

 

How helpful can we be to NG as a smoldering heap? We can give our two cents beforehand (as we did), we can try to negotiate on their behalf (as we did), we can offer rebuilding aid/tech afterwards (which I'm sure we will). Either of us could've canceled; we both obviously still value the relationship. I don't think any of you who know IRON are really second guessing her commitment to her allies, or is trying to save her own skin.

[magicninja]

Yeah, if there was ever a reason to abandon a side it was because of how LoSS decided to conjure a treaty to hit IRON solely for the purpose of being able to be on the other side. They basically hit NG unprovoked with no treaty though they want to claim they have one. That IRON would decline that activation is about as pathetic as it gets. If you're wondering I haven't cared for LoSS in a long long time and have wished the treaty gone for just as long. Years by now. They had sympathizers in GATO until this pathetic stunt. I hope I finally get that cancellation. Do the right thing IRON. Roll those little shits.

[Delta1212]

But winning the peace is my favorite part :(

If it makes you feel any better, I had a few people in mind for who was less likely to screw that aspect of things up when I said that there were rare exceptions, and you were one of them.