IRON is the new ODN?

[Beauty]

 
Wow that was incredibly profound; we clearly must bow down to your superior wit. :|

Rayvon quotes me a lot, with stuff along those lines so I thought I'd finally say hi. I think he likes me. :3 Edited November 15, 2013 by Rotavele

[D34th]

I applaud IRON for this move.

I rest my case your honor.

[HM Solomon I]

Rayvon quotes me a lot, with stuff along those lines so I thought I'd finally say hi. I think he likes me :3

 

lol

[Beauty]

I rest my case your honor.

That would have been funny if it wasn't so expected by this point. You remind me of those people who can't debate or pose a rebuttal so they correct the other's grammar. Edited November 15, 2013 by Rotavele

[D34th]

That would have been funny if it wasn't so expected by this point. You remind me of those people who can't debate or pose a rebuttal so they correct the other's grammar.

The fact that you didn't understood why I said that and you're thinking that I was correcting your grammar is just the icing on the cake.

[Beauty]

The fact that you didn't understood why I said that and you're thinking that I was correcting your grammar is just the icing on the cake.

.... I'm not even... Wow.

[Nikolay]

Optional Defense Network doesn't even compare, D34th. In noCB/WoTC, ODN wasn't part of the plot to roll NpO. ODN didn't even join the other coalition really, except for the Vox Populi front in defense of GGA. In here, not only have IRON admitted to having been a part of the plan to roll NG and NG's allies, the same NG that is supposedly IRON's MDoAP ally, not only are they dishonoring their treaty with NG and refusing to defend NG against LoSS like they are legally obligated to(non-chaining doesn't apply here because LoSS entered the war without any treaty ties - and don't tell me they didn't, if they had an actual treaty, why did IRON beg them to offer white peace to NG, but didn't ask Umbrella, UPN, VE, MW and DoD to white peace with NG...it's pretty obvious, IRON asked only LoSS because even IRON knew that they are legally obligated to defend NG against LoSS but not against the rest and they were trying to avoid gaining the reputation of an ally backstabber, which they could only do by ending the war between NG and LoSS), but to add to all of that betrayal, they are actually going to oA against NG's coalition.

 

It's a real shame that the honorable members of the IRON Council are a minority.

[Beauty]

Optional Defense Network doesn't even compare, D34th. In noCB/WoTC, ODN wasn't part of the plot to roll NpO. ODN didn't even join the other coalition really, except for the Vox Populi front in defense of GGA. In here, not only have IRON admitted to having been a part of the plan to roll NG and NG's allies, the same NG that is supposedly IRON's MDoAP ally, not only are they dishonoring their treaty with NG and refusing to defend NG against LoSS like they are legally obligated to(non-chaining doesn't apply here because LoSS entered the war without any treaty ties - and don't tell me they didn't, if they had an actual treaty, why did IRON beg them to offer white peace to NG, but didn't ask Umbrella, UPN, VE, MW and DoD to white peace with NG...it's pretty obvious, IRON asked only LoSS because even IRON knew that they are legally obligated to defend NG against LoSS but not against the rest and they were trying to avoid gaining the reputation of an ally backstabber, which they could only do by ending the war between NG and LoSS), but to add to all of that betrayal, they are actually going to oA against NG's coalition.
 
It's a real shame that the honorable members of the IRON Council are a minority.

So did ODN betray INT when they declared on CCC instead of Nordreich?

[Nikolay]

So did ODN betray INT when they declared on CCC instead of Nordreich?

ODN does not have an MADP with the International, nor did the International ask for help. Go away.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Nikolay

[Beauty]

ODN does not have an MADP with the International, nor did the International ask for help. Go away.

Ok and LoSS didn't oA in on NG through VE too right?

Edit: Hey aren't you the guy I tricked into joining NSO? Edited November 15, 2013 by Rotavele

[SoADarthCyfe6]

It must be really calming to know for IRON that Rotavele is defending them.

Not going to lie, I've lost a lot of respect for IRON over this. If you have a treaty and don't intend to honor it, then why have it? Pathetic. BaronAaron pretty much going to become the biggest clown on Planet Bob for a while.

I also lol'd at this part of the logs. It's a pretty accurate depiction of them.

20:02] Old man Derwood1[NG] this is amateur hour Steve_Buscemi[NG]

[20:02] Old man Derwood1[NG] whoops wrong room

Edited November 15, 2013 by SoADarthCyfe6

[Beauty]

It must be really calming to know for IRON that Rotavele is defending them.Not going to lie, I've lost a lot of respect for IRON over this. If you have a treaty and don't intend to honor it, then why have it? Pathetic. Also, BaronAaron pretty much going to become the biggest clown on Planet Bob for a while.I also lol'd at this part of the logs. It's a pretty accurate depiction of them.

You're in GATO...

[Caustic]

Ok and LoSS didn't oA in on NG through VE too right?

Edit: Hey aren't you the guy I tricked into joining NSO?

 

The common standard for CN has always been thus: if a treaty doesn't exist on either party's website, if it doesn't exist on the OWF, and if it doesn't exist on the wiki, IT DOESN'T exist period. Making up nonsensical treaty claims via obscure references to irc logs "proving it" which, conveniently, have never been shown means there was no oA. It was a blatant outright attack. Non chaining doesn't even enter into the equation.

[Nikolay]

Ok and LoSS didn't oA in on NG through VE too right?

Can't oA through a treaty that isn't valid by any CN standard. This magical treaty that was conjured up at the last second so that LoSS wouldn't have to fight with it's allies on the losing side is simply laughable. Nobody has ever posted it on the OWF. It's not on the VE or LoSS forums. Nobody has ever seen it at all. If you ask LoSS they only have military treaties with DT, MCXA, GATO, NPL and TIO:

 

Also, since you are an irritating little liar welcome to my ignore list:

Edited November 15, 2013 by Nikolay

[Beauty]

 
The common standard for CN has always been thus: if a treaty doesn't exist on either party's website, if it doesn't exist on the OWF, and if it doesn't exist on the wiki, IT DOESN'T exist period. Making up nonsensical treaty claims via obscure references to irc logs "proving it" which, conveniently, have never been shown means there was no oA. It was a blatant outright attack. Non chaining doesn't even enter into the equation.

Oh... Well then LOL. They're still doing pretty good too. I think it was brave of them to declare war because they can. Kind of like that time you guys did it to AGWO Overlords, yeah? Or SOS Brigade lol? Or is it more like UPN and/or Kaskus? Just wondering. I think it's good to reap what you sow sometimes. It'll put hair on your chest boi. I applaud LoSS for their bravery and commitment and wish them luck in this endeavor. I also find it extremely funny NG wants to cry about it. What was that old NG saying? Ah yeah, do something about it. Edited November 15, 2013 by Rotavele

[Chimaera]

I find it interesting that Aaron claims IRON to be on the 'other side' (e.g., mine), yet in my experience IRON's greatest desire during this war has been to do absolutely no fighting at all.

 

IRON is on no one's side except their own, and that's awfully similar to the viewpoints that put NG in their current radioactive pickle.

[Stealthkill]

This type of behavior, commonly know as ODN's Modus Operandi, are the proof that IRON was just waiting to see if NG plans would be successful or not to then safely choose who they would support.

 

[19:57] Old man Derwood1[NG] if I can ask a question, and I have
heard many things about this but I would like it direct from you: why
are you not defending us?
 
[19:58] BaronAaron[IRON] becasue for months we told you this was going to happen

 
Just gonna say, that last bit you're trying to take it where IRON was hedging their bets by keeping the treaty doesn't really stand up too well. It's been clear for a while that NG didn't have a shot so while you could try to spin IRON's refusal to support NG in a variety of ways against them, saying that IRON was hedging its bets doesn't work very well. And judging from these logs alone, IRON was not supportive of NG for quite a while, with the treaty remaining for whatever reasons.
 
Ironically enough, NG (in a way) can be seen to be the one hedging its political bets a bit here. Not in regards to this war, but the next. They've been preaching about how the next war will be TOP taking aim at IRON, and have been making moralist claims against TOP (and constantly talking about Beerosphere as TOP's meatshield, a claim that the stats aren't showing just yet), while simultaneously trying to publicly shame IRON. The latter may be fairly legitimate, but if IRON's been saying for this long that they were not planning on defending NG for the war that they brought upon themselves, one could easily wager the outrage is mainly for show. Especially if NG isn't cancelling the IRON/Val ties in response to such a thing. As for the former... I mean, the irony of NG making moralist claims and trying to appeal to Beerosphere is just flat out funny.
 
Whenever an alliance is stuck with ties on both sides, it's a shitty position. Handling it requires a mutual understanding from all treaty partners, regardless of if the alliance with conflicting interests is electing to join the winning side or losing side. It seems from these logs that IRON communicated to NG well in advance what their intentions were, though apparently they either didn't do so very well, or people are just milking the hell out of this. Or NG thought that the LoSS bullshit may have created wiggle room to change something.

[ditchboy00]

Oh... Well then LOL. They're still doing pretty good too. I think it was brave of them to declare war because they can. Kind of like that time you guys did it to AGWO Overlords, yeah? Or SOS Brigade lol? Or is it more like UPN and/or Kaskus? Just wondering. I think it's good to reap what you sow sometimes. It'll put hair on your chest boi. I applaud LoSS for their bravery and commitment and wish them luck in this endeavor. I also find it extremely funny NG wants to cry about it. What was that old NG saying? Ah yeah, do something about it.

My god NG sounds terrible. Why would anyone want to keep a treaty with them? 

Edited November 15, 2013 by ditchboy00

[CubaQuerida]

I mean it's kinda hard to act surprised and shocked by a betrayal that was 3 months in the making. IRON actively plotted against one of their oldest treaty partners and then acts like it's no big deal when then get asked for help and then assess the situation and think they might take too much damage. I'm not on great or even good terms with IRON, this much is common knowledge but there should be some degree of respect shown between sovereign alliances.

The most shocking thing for me is that IRON ever allowed the enemy coalition to get off the ground.

During peacetime, your main job as a MDP treaty partner is to make sure your treaty mates don't get rolled, because you have an inherent obligation to defend them. At the very least you are required to share that INFORMATION with your treaty mates so they can make educated decisions about their future instead of get back stabbed once things start to develop.

To IRON, seriously you declined coming in on loSS, one of the most militarily incompetent AAs to grace our presence? At least make a token effort in defending a MDP.

The takeaway from this is that if you are a current or prospective treaty mate of IRON, watch your back. It doesn't look like they value the friendship as much as you think.

[Garion]

I do not buy the "IRON tried to fuck NG" claims. Knowing them they probably tried to persuade and protect them, but at times that just doesn't work. Again, an honest separation might have been best.

 

And yeah, NG's moralist claims are really a show in themselves :P

Edited November 15, 2013 by Garion

[Caustic]

I do not buy the "IRON tried to fuck NG" claims. Knowing them they probably tried to persuade and protect them, but at times that just doesn't work. Again, an honest separation might have been best.

 

And yeah, NG's moralist claims are really a show in themselves :P

 

[20:07] BaronAaron[IRON] we set up a brawl between NG and TOP

 

yep, nothing to see here folks

[Nikolay]

I do not buy the "IRON tried to fuck NG" claims. Knowing them they probably tried to persuade and protect them, but at times that just doesn't work. Again, an honest separation might have been best.

 

And yeah, NG's moralist claims are really a show in themselves :P

You don't buy it when IRON themselves are saying they have been a part of the coalition TOP and Polar built to roll NG and NG's allies for months? That's odd.

[Beauty]

 
IRON's been saying for this long that they were not planning on defending NG for the war that they brought upon themselves, one could easily wager the outrage is mainly for show. Especially if NG isn't cancelling the IRON/Val ties in response to such a thing. As for the former... I mean, the irony of NG making moralist claims and trying to appeal to Beerosphere is just flat out funny.
 
Whenever an alliance is stuck with ties on both sides, it's a shitty position. Handling it requires a mutual understanding from all treaty partners, regardless of if the alliance with conflicting interests is electing to join the winning side or losing side. It seems from these logs that IRON communicated to NG well in advance what their intentions were, though apparently they either didn't do so very well, or people are just milking the hell out of this. Or NG thought that the LoSS bullshit may have created wiggle room to change something

This, this exactly is what I'm trying to say. Thank you stealthkill.

I do not buy the "IRON tried to fuck NG" claims. Knowing them they probably tried to persuade and protect them, but at times that just doesn't work. Again, an honest separation might have been best.
 
And yeah, NG's moralist claims are really a show in themselves :P

R&R explains it very well here. Edited November 15, 2013 by Rotavele

[Varianz]

What I'm finding refreshing about this topic is that we've all stopped pretending that this war was because NSO is super super evil super awesome mastermind alliance that could have single-handedly plotted the war against Polar (Dilber knows allllllllllll), and are tacitly admitting this was about getting to NG and we were the easiest way to do that. That one was getting silly. 

[Vol Navy]

Reminds me of Sparta during the months leading up to Karma. We have ties on both sides, we didn't support the whole run up to war and actually don't like much of what NSO does these days, but here we are. Your MD treaty partner takes a bullet, you're there to take the next one.