The Fluffy Flower War

[DevilDog]

With just under 10 days left in the round what difference would it really make on who hit who first anyways guys?
Can't say for sure as I am not in Hellas government and so I am only on the "need to know" members group.
Don't know if it was intentional or not but I can't say that I really blame the Hellas government guys for wanting to go in after the Warriors went in seeing as they were team mates with TPC last time we had our little skirmish.

Don't know if that was the reasoning behind government wanting to come in after you guys or not though seeing as how from what I am reading they came to you guys about this battle in the first place.
Just wondering whose bright idea that was considering you guys were team mates last war.
the Warriors would not have been my first choice of people I would have contacted about a joint effort against TPC.
Call me crazy but they just wouldn't have.

For what's it's worth my vote was to put on the "big boy" britches and just hit TPC by ourselves.

James I would hope by now that you know that I think you are a pretty decent guy and all, but I will have to let you know that when the votes came in about which alliance those of us who are still playing here after LE was over, done with and gone it was pretty much a 3 way tie between TPC, OP and Hellas. (with a few votes for some of the smaller alliances.

TPC was not chosen simply because the majority of our members did not want to be in an alliance that hardly ever fights in a game that is primarily built to do such.
Can't put [b]ALL[/b] of the blame on James as if he has a government in his alliance you can bet that he woul's

[TigerBaby]

[quote name='Forward' timestamp='1354944066' post='3061642']
Maybe not splitting targets and attacking one single alliance your own size would help
[/quote]

Give us an example of a single alliance the same size as TPC. You see the last time I looked the next strongest alliance had a total nation strength that barely matched only the military strength of TPC.

[Forward]

[quote name='TigerBaby' timestamp='1354946376' post='3061670']
Give us an example of a single alliance the same size as TPC. You see the last time I looked the next strongest alliance had a total nation strength that barely matched only the military strength of TPC.
[/quote]
Why was that again? Oh, because of the earlier downdeclares, during times when there [i]were[/i] such alliances. Oh. Oops.

[King James XVIII]

[quote name='Forward' timestamp='1354944066' post='3061642']
Maybe not splitting targets and attacking one single alliance your own size would help... also, are those people you listen to the massive lot of flagrunners you allow and support? That would explain things a little... If you really tried, you're certainly capable of turning out wars far fairer than the ones you do (in fact, maybe TPC could even... [i]up[/i]-declare occasionally?!), but anyone can see that TPC is not interested in any such thing.[/quote]

If busting an alliance 1v1 were the best option we'd do it. You make it sound like we're scared of such a fight

Fact is we usually grow faster than everyone else. That creates a smaller window to do a strict 1v1 war. Planning a war and executing a blitz already involves a ton of moving parts--not including what other alliances are doing as they prepare for war.

You don't get respected TE veterans calling us an elite alliance without having a more than our fair share of up-declares and gritty wars. Talk about flag running all you want, war is where you earn your stripes in this game.

[Forward]

[quote name='King James XVIII' timestamp='1354946799' post='3061674']
If busting an alliance 1v1 were the best option we'd do it. You make it sound like we're scared of such a fight

Fact is we usually grow faster than everyone else. That creates a smaller window to do a strict 1v1 war. Planning a war and executing a blitz already involves a ton of moving parts--not including what other alliances are doing as they prepare for war.

You don't get respected TE veterans calling us an elite alliance without having a more than our fair share of up-declares and gritty wars. Talk about flag running all you want, war is where you earn your stripes in this game.
[/quote]
Ha... you're not scared; you're the best at both building and fighting out there. But you choose to help your flagrunners every time, and take even LESS damage than you would by fighting a fair war. Indeed, TPC could [i]updeclare[/i] and win in most cases anyway. But TPC isn't [i]that[/i] good. If you were to do that, you could lose your flagrun! And you can't do that, now can you? And so TPC chooses to downdeclare, and succeeds quite often. There are also the times when skilled alliances take the initiative and TPC doesn't win. But that doesn't change the fact that (in recent times, anyhow) TPC always makes winning the flag its top priority.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Forward

[King James XVIII]

[quote name='Forward' timestamp='1354946682' post='3061672']
Why was that again? Oh, because of the earlier downdeclares, during times when there [i]were[/i] such alliances. Oh. Oops.
[/quote]

Nope, that's just wrong. People were jumping to war to grind axes and each time we were beat out by 24 hours. That's most certainly on me, but when we were half this size a couple alliances decided against hitting us in favor of "easier" fights. Look in the mirror before you start accusing someone else of avoiding the hardest war possible.

[quote name='Devil Dog' timestamp='1354946162' post='3061668']
James I would hope by now that you know that I think you are a pretty decent guy and all, but I will have to let you know that when the votes came in about which alliance those of us who are still playing here after LE was over, done with and gone it was pretty much a 3 way tie between TPC, OP and Hellas. (with a few votes for some of the smaller alliances.

TPC was not chosen simply because the majority of our members did not want to be in an alliance that hardly ever fights in a game that is primarily built to do such.
[/quote]

It is what it is. I still respect and love you guys

[Forward]

[quote name='King James XVIII' timestamp='1354947216' post='3061680']
Nope, that's just wrong. People were jumping to war to grind axes and each time we were beat out by 24 hours. That's most certainly on me, but when we were half this size a couple alliances decided against hitting us in favor of "easier" fights. Look in the mirror before you start accusing someone else of avoiding the hardest war possible.
[/quote]
Looking at TFK in the mirror, I see us getting rolled by TPC in progressively worse downdeclares, and then us taking the initiative and striking first, before getting rolled (for obvious reasons) anyway. Also, I'm not accusing you of quite so harmless an offense; I'm accusing you of avoiding any sort of fair war (very skillfully and successfully, in fact), and you know it's the case.

Oh and also, since I'm taking leave from here like a semi-normal person, I'm just going to add that outnumbering me with repetitions of untrue arguments doesn't make you any more right, in case you think about doing that.

[Freddy]

[quote name='King James XVIII' timestamp='1354946799' post='3061674']
If busting an alliance 1v1 were the best option we'd do it. You make it sound like we're scared of such a fight

Fact is we usually grow faster than everyone else. That creates a smaller window to do a strict 1v1 war. Planning a war and executing a blitz already involves a ton of moving parts--not including what other alliances are doing as they prepare for war.

You don't get respected TE veterans calling us an elite alliance without having a more than our fair share of up-declares and gritty wars. Talk about flag running all you want, war is where you earn your stripes in this game.
[/quote]

You don't grow faster (not that you aren't truly good builders). You grow while other people are fighting. But, choosing your wars is your business, as it is for any alliance.

[King James XVIII]

[quote name='Forward' timestamp='1354947178' post='3061679']
Ha... you're not scared; you're the best at both building and fighting out there. But you choose to help your flagrunners every time, and take even LESS damage than you would by fighting a fair war. Indeed, TPC could [i]updeclare[/i] and win in most cases anyway. But TPC isn't [i]that[/i] good. If you were to do that, you could lose your flagrun! And you can't do that, now can you? And so TPC chooses to downdeclare, and succeeds quite often. There are also the times when skilled alliances take the initiative and TPC doesn't win. But that doesn't change the fact that (in recent times, anyhow) TPC always makes winning the flag its top priority.
[/quote]

We're just another alliance, we're not invincible--I know that. We win some and lose some. Contrary to your belief however, having the top nation in TE at 11:59:59 PM on day 89 never comes up when we plan a war.

[quote name='Forward' timestamp='1354947413' post='3061683']
Looking at TFK in the mirror, I see us getting rolled by TPC in progressively worse downdeclares, and then us taking the initiative and striking first, before getting rolled (for obvious reasons) anyway. Also, I'm not accusing you of quite so harmless an offense; I'm accusing you of avoiding any sort of fair war (very skillfully and successfully, in fact), and you know it's the case.

Oh and also, since I'm taking leave from here like a semi-normal person, I'm just going to add that outnumbering me with repetitions of untrue arguments doesn't make you any more right, in case you think about doing that.
[/quote]

On a serious note, if you and your gov feel like you are being picked on, PM me and we'll talk. Sometimes alliances get lumped into consecutive DoW's just because they are in the best position to fight (Catharsis comes to mind).

As for accusing us of completely avoiding any sort of fair war, you are entitled to your opinion. (shrugs shoulders)

Repetitions of untrue arguments? I would never think of doing such a thing.

Did we war as much as I would have liked this round? No. Did we get the "Plan A" wars we wanted? Not at all. It has happened to others and it happened to us this round. I did what I could. I'll sleep just fine tonight, tomorrow, and the night after.

I've said what I needed to say.

o/ War

[Clash]

[quote name='Devil Dog' timestamp='1354946162' post='3061668']Don't know if it was intentional or not but I can't say that I really blame the Hellas government guys for wanting to go in after the Warriors went in seeing as they were team mates with TPC last time we had our little skirmish.

Don't know if that was the reasoning behind government wanting to come in after you guys or not though seeing as how from what I am reading they came to you guys about this battle in the first place.
Just wondering whose bright idea that was considering you guys were team mates last war.[/quote]

Geez you guys are stuck on that.
It doesn't mean crap.

We fight alongside various alliances every round. It's not our fault you guys aren't very social. We usually fight alongside different alliances every round, and they are usually alliances we have warred against in the past. That's how we got to know them after all. Our war alongside you guys would have been just like that, hence why I had no problem listening to Wasso's offer in the first place.

Some examples from previous rounds:

Two rounds ago we hit NDO. Last round NDO hit us. Then later in the round we and NDO and Citadel all hit Hellas I think it was, and some others. Are you guys now going to claim NDO are our puppets? You guys have already claimed Citadel are TPC puppets. I guess Citadel must be awfully slutty to be ours too.

This round us, NDO and RD had a war where we hit each other on a pre-designated update. Are they both our puppets this round? Does technically that mean TPC are true puppet masters since they apparently control those alliances through us? We can't be both NDO's and TPC puppets, can we?

Or jussttttt maybeee is this whole puppet thing just completely paranoid stupid?

None of this has to do with Hellas' desire that we be their meat shields, either. That [i]reallllyyyyy[/i] ticked me off. BTW we were going to hit TPC before you guys came to us, and I delayed our plans in order to listen to you guys. It would have been a fun war, if Hallas had the sack to do it.

The new Hellas motto should be "We'll be right behind you! Probably."

[TigerBaby]

[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1354952374' post='3061697']


BTW we were going to hit TPC before you guys came to us, and I delayed our plans in order to listen to you guys. It would have been a fun war, if Hallas had the sack to do it.
[/quote]

Agreed that would have been a giggle. I'm not TPC government or anything so I can't say anything for sure but I suspect we were going to hit you or them or both of you before you guys started hitting them. We were ready to go a number of times in the past couple of weeks and it got called off because of one thing and another in what sometimes looked to me like alliances ducking and diving trying to get off our radar.

It's been a difficult round that's presented problems in finding suitable targets that will humour these whiners because after just one round with TPC I have quickly discovered that no matter what we do these whiners will find fault with it. I expect If you totalled the NS we have been hitting in the last war and this one you would quickly find it's no down declare. What in the world is there to hit when our guys build so well and they really do.

And yes I find it comical that the latest whine sounds like toddlers encouraging each other to "you go first" then sulking when the other wont do their bidding.

[Polarbear]

when clash started the wardrums couple days before this war started tpc was the only target he mentioned with the pros and cons, main con being that our lower nation would have no targets. i figured we would have added a smaller alliance for the little guys and gone off to glorious battle. Kinda sad that didnt happen, guess the lesson here is dont make plans with the warriors and then back out on us or you will become our next target

[wasso]

Btw, let me add something , maybe we shall remind "who say " that we are scared of TPC or somebody else , of what we did in the end of a round where we hit TPC by ourselves,and yes they had also top ranks , and managed to get them all the fun they had to take . When we want to do something , we do it . We need nobody to tell us what to do .
And Polar bear , yes we get our lesson , not to trust people like you .

[Clash]

[quote name='wasso' timestamp='1354968342' post='3061730']And Polar bear , yes we get our lesson , not to trust people like you .[/quote]
Oh that definately goes both ways.
I love that Hellas had to call in help. Wow you guys are weak

[paul711]

[quote name='TigerBaby' timestamp='1354954599' post='3061701']


Agreed that would have been a giggle. I'm not TPC government or anything so I can't say anything for sure but I suspect we were going to hit you or them or both of you before you guys started hitting them. We were ready to go a number of times in the past couple of weeks and it got called off because of one thing and another in what sometimes looked to me like alliances ducking and diving trying to get off our radar.

It's been a difficult round that's presented problems in finding suitable targets that will humour these whiners because after just one round with TPC I have quickly discovered that no matter what we do these whiners will find fault with it. I expect If you totalled the NS we have been hitting in the last war and this one you would quickly find it's no down declare. What in the world is there to hit when our guys build so well and they really do.

And yes I find it comical that the latest whine sounds like toddlers encouraging each other to "you go first" then sulking when the other wont do their bidding.
[/quote]

I have to comment on this post because I have issue with a couple of points. One, to insinuate that TPC got their size because of some other worldly nation building prowess that none of us mortals possess is preposterous. Yes TPC is very good builders, but I believe OP are as well. Your run away round was the result of a series of events that came together. One, OP was rogue attack enmass on day 2 for almost a week which stunted our growth. Two, not your fault but RE tried to curbstomp us and I believe TW and Hellas were in a war. Rather TPC saw an opportunity or were trying to stop a curb stomp is debatable, but the results were that they eliminated all early competition. OP had to play from behind and could never catch up. Again not your fault but if we had not been rogued, hell even despite that, if RE had not hit us and TPC tried the same early war everyone knows the results would have been a little different.

I am not knocking TPC here with this post but setting the record straight here. It wasn't superior skills at all but very good building coupled with some very fortutious events and dare I say some leadership in recognizi.g an opportunity. Bravo I say but when we had a similar round and won the flag the next roynd was brutal as we had a bullseye on us.

Edited December 8, 2012 by paul711

[King James XVIII]

[quote name='paul711' timestamp='1354985484' post='3061789']
I have to comment on this post because I have issue with a couple of points. One, to insinuate that TPC got their size because of some other worldly nation building prowess that none of us mortals possess is preposterous. Yes TPC is very good builders, but I believe OP are as well. Your run away round was the result of a series of events that came together. One, OP was rogue attack enmass on day 2 for almost a week which stunted our growth. Two, not your fault but RE tried to curbstomp us and I believe TW and Hellas were in a war. Rather TPC saw an opportunity or were trying to stop a curb stomp is debatable, but the results were that they eliminated all early competition. OP had to play from behind and could never catch up. Again not your fault but if we had not been rogued, hell even despite that, if RE had not hit us and TPC tried the same early war everyone knows the results would have been a little different.

I am not knocking TPC here with this post but setting the record straight here. It wasn't superior skills at all but very good building coupled with some very fortutious events and dare I say some leadership in recognizi.g an opportunity. Bravo I say but when we had a similar round and won the flag the next roynd was brutal as we had a bullseye on us.
[/quote]

Coming back one more time to say something.

Paul, I think that is a pretty accurate assessment of what happened this round. I still think if we got in the wars we wanted we would have had the highest ANS, but the gap wouldn't have been nearly as large. Without revealing confidential information the pre-thanksgiving wars were the turning point in terms of the NS gap. Once the holiday came up, all bets were off. The round may have been disappointing on the war front, but I'm proud of what we were able to accomplish on the building front. I put together some incredible stats to be released later

The round was [u]clearly[/u] an aberration--something the powers that be will make sure [u]never[/u] happens again.

Edit--if memory serves, OP and LE were the only other alliances to ever be in a position to "build past parity". It takes superior skill (that's not to say [i]only[/i] TPC has that skill, there are others out there with superior skill) [u][b]and[/b][/u] a hell of a lot of fortuitous (or disastrous) events. You make the best of it.

Edited December 8, 2012 by King James XVIII

[sir pwnage]

[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1354977218' post='3061755']
Oh that definately goes both ways.
I love that Hellas had to call in help. Wow you guys are weak
[/quote]

Yeah, I was gonna taunt them for calling in help, but then the guy that they sent made the following mistakes:

Going in to a war without navy while still staying over the 250 land limit, against 3 nations with navies
Sending 10 bombers on an attack run
Not having a single military wonder, including the MP
Failing to blitz
Attacking before dropping a nuke while I had more soldiers at home than deployed
Doing bombing runs before a nuke
Having a terrible warchest (He's sitting on 290k after collecting today)
Failing to coordinate with the other 2 Hellens I'm fighting
Staying at threat level: Low while at war

...so I think instead I'm just going to make fun of him. Apple123, you are terrible and I almost feel bad wasting a navy slot on you.

At this point, the only issue I have is that his joining Hellas makes their NS chart look slightly less plummety

[apple123]

I'm not in anarchy like you!

[apple123]

They did not send me. I joined them because I wanted to. SO I made a couple of mistakes. Me nuking all three of you will make up for those.

[apple123]

I was also just recovering from a war. Just check my nation's graph

[Forward]

[quote name='apple123' timestamp='1355034040' post='3062039']
I'm not in anarchy like you!
[/quote]
Wow, you're so good at war!

[quote name='apple123' timestamp='1355034182' post='3062040']
Me nuking all three of you will make up for those.
[/quote]
No, it really won't. In fact, you could even make things even worse for Hellas through that

Edited December 9, 2012 by Forward

[sir pwnage]

[quote name='apple123' timestamp='1355034040' post='3062039']
I'm not in anarchy like you!
[/quote]

Congratulations, you haven't been nuked yet. I have.

[quote name='apple123' timestamp='1355034182' post='3062040']
They did not send me. I joined them because I wanted to. SO I made a couple of mistakes. Me nuking all three of you will make up for those.
[/quote]

I was probably (barring any kind of SDI streak) going to eat nukes for the rest of the round anyway. Your contribution amounts to nothing. And after a day or two when you've been bill-locked, your only purpose will be keeping a credible threat from attacking me.

[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I was also just recovering from a war. Just check my nation's graph[/quote][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Well then, maybe now wasn't such a good time to go sticking your nose in other peoples' business then, huh?[/font][/color]

Edited December 9, 2012 by sir pwnage

[apple123]

I'm new to this game

[apple123]

I am also way younger then all of you!

[sir pwnage]

[quote name='apple123' timestamp='1355035697' post='3062048']
I am also way younger then all of you!
[/quote]

Pfff, that's no excuse. When I first assumed control of my nation, I was but 13 years of age. If you can read a guide, you can run a nation. And I'm assuming you can read since you're replying to me, sooooo...