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The Fluffy Flower War


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[quote name='Chess Tyrant' timestamp='1354813986' post='3061106']
Have you looked at TPC's roster lately? We have 25 nations over 30K NS, and 23 with 3999+ infra. Warriors have two of each. [/quote]

I think that post pretty much describes what going up against TPC at this point would mean.
How the hell would picking that fight - alone - be good for our members? If we had help, we would have done it though. Too bad Hellas didn't have the sack to provide it.

[quote name='Freddy' timestamp='1354832918' post='3061195']No one backed out of anything. We were discussing plans with them. They wanted to make the target list.[/quote]
Lies. You guys backed out on hitting TPC with us - which was your idea in the first place - and that should not be in dispute by now. I told Wasso we were going to war on the very date we did. we were going to hit SOMEBODY. You guys had at least two days of warning for a war, even more seeing as how you came to us on the idea in the first place before you backed out of it. You were actually 1000 ns higher than us in average nation strength when we hit you. So why hug so hard?

And no, we did not want to make the target list, not alone. I can log dump to prove that. Wasso wanted me to make one - for a war you guys weren't even going to have ther balls to fight. He wanted me to take time from my real life to make a list you guys never had any intention to ever use. That was just another thing that ticked me off.

[quote name='Freddy' timestamp='1354832918' post='3061195'][b]It would have been a good plan to let TPC fill their offensive slots, before Hellas DOWed to make TPC have 5 -6 wars[/b]. That's how Hellas might have done it without tW. If tW doesn't like a proposal that doesn't mean they need to kill the messenger. Just take your toys and $%&@ off. It was never their plan to play nice with Hellas. They were telling us lies from the start, so we wouldn't expect their attack and to get some info for their attack. This was their plan all along.[/quote]

Can everyone read this? We were supposed to have the top 20-odd tW nations with full slots from TPC to make Hellas happy. This is their idea of friendship and working together. Are you !@#$@#$ kidding me?! So TPC would use all their offensive slots on us - then "maybe" hellas would have attacked, once they were safe from getting any defensive wars. COWARDS. WTF are you thinking? Why would ANY alliance ever agree to that?

You sir are a grade A idiot.
And of course, you guys came to US. The lies are still being told on your side.

[quote name='Freddy' timestamp='1354832918' post='3061195']After they joined TPC to hit us it would be foolish for Hellas to take the lead in a war they propose. And hasn't it proven foolish to trust tW? We did the right thing by not blindly doing what they suggest.[/quote]

We did the right thing by not blindly doing what you suggested, hypocrite. You wanted US to take the lead, remember? And all the damage while you sat back and watched. You guys never even guaranteed you would war at all. You wanted us to make sure you didn't have to.

We were going to war last update, that date was set, and Hellas knew it.
When they cowarded out of fighting with us, they became the logical target to fight against us.

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[quote name='Forward' timestamp='1354841465' post='3061243']
Just as a comment, I really don't see anything wrong with this war... I mean, certainly a war on TPC could not afford to wait for a "2-3 day" wait this late in the round, and Hellas sure seems to be trying to hide its own flagrunners (though they probably don't stand a chance against TPC's). Indeed, we three TFKers who hit some TPC flagrunners had to move ahead with very flawed coordination simply because we could not afford to keep waiting, although we otherwise certainly should and could have done much better.
[/quote]

Yeah you guys kinda pre-emptively hit TPC, anticipating they were going to hit you like they did last time. Nice going, and TPC appreciates it. I know this because they said so in their channel last night lol. Imagine what that could have been if Hellas had sacked up and gone with us to hit TPC? The three of us, with OP coming in later? We might have actually given them a decent run for their money. I mean, they still win the flag going away, but at least we make things interesting and poor Einer doesn't have to find out how much infra costs at the 6000 level.

Ah what could have been.

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B-)

I had a DREAM... (about TPC)

That all serps were the same,

and A Dalek Hybrid Bio-machine

some day, will dress up their skin...

As new shoes... !!!

But, that was just a Dream!!!

By Now...!!!

Again, have fun guys and and better planning in the Future!!!... :rolleyes:
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[quote name='King James XVIII' timestamp='1354822522' post='3061139']
Nothing wrong with giving us a war. We certainly would have appreciated the effort. We did not intend the round to be this way--it was a round of busted plans. At literally every turn, our best plans for a war were blown up at the very last minute. That is something I have to take a look at moving forward.

Building is nice and breaking NS ground is cool, but war is what TPC does best and where we have the most fun.
[/quote]

Bullcrap.
1. Your fake wars were only staged to attack flag runners.
2. You timed these charades in the attempt to avoid real wars.

[quote name='Forward' timestamp='1354841465' post='3061243']
Although, I'd like to add that I do trust that King James looked for plausibly fair wars.
[/quote]

Not a chance. His wars were completely fake.

Warriors and Hellas hopefully crush each other through the end of this round. At least it isn't a fake war.

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Clash, I didn't want Warriors to do anything. A joint war wasn't...wouldn't...have been my idea...in a million years. You don't want to hit TPC alone - then don't. You don't like Wasso telling you to go first - then stop talking to him. You don't threaten us that "you will be hitting someone" on the designated day! I don't give a damn about your threats and I wont do a damn thing that you want in response to threats.

Now, shut up and give me a ton of casualties.

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[quote name='Freddy' timestamp='1354853161' post='3061328']
Clash, I didn't want Warriors to do anything. A joint war wasn't...wouldn't...have been my idea...in a million years. You don't want to hit TPC alone - then don't. You don't like Wasso telling you to go first - then stop talking to him. You don't threaten us that "you will be hitting someone" on the designated day! I don't give a damn about your threats and I wont do a damn thing that you want in response to threats.

Now, shut up and give me a ton of casualties.
[/quote]
I'm going for it too, let's see how these Top Warriors can even War! And Clash your flag runner is going down with me so don't try to hide him and not give him a target :popcorn: My Nukes are ready :nuke:

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See kids, this is how you declare war :P : --> [url="http://tournament.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?search=1000159&Extended=1"]http://tournament.cy...0159&Extended=1[/url]

Edited by Jesusfreak
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[quote name='bombuator' timestamp='1354853766' post='3061339']
I'm going for it too, let's see how these Top Warriors can even War! And Clash your flag runner is going down with me so don't try to hide him and not give him a target :popcorn: My Nukes are ready :nuke:
[/quote]

That's not a flag runner :P

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[quote name='bombuator' timestamp='1354853766' post='3061339']
I'm going for it too, let's see how these Top Warriors can even War! And Clash your flag runner is going down with me so don't try to hide him and not give him a target :popcorn: My Nukes are ready :nuke:
[/quote]

I was actually given two targets. I was... otherwise occupied during update last night. [OOC] It was one of the last nights before finals studying really kicks into overdrive, and I didn't have any classes today. Use your imagination.[/OOC]

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[quote name='King James XVIII' timestamp='1354822522' post='3061139']
You'll just have to wait and see. Judging by your comments however, I doubt you'll approve of anything that we do. I've said it before and I'll say it again--[b]if people want war they know where to find us.[/b] If people want parity don't wait the entire round for someone else to take us (or any other alliance moving out of range) on. No nation was born with 30k NS, we started the round with the same cash and strength as everyone else.

(general statement not directed at any one alliance) :P

[/quote]

Yes staying in Peace for more than 20 days is excused by saying that ? You had no real war all round TPC . You were following the Flag runners thats it . You had the first War vs Us at the very beginning . What else ?

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[quote name='wasso' timestamp='1354864079' post='3061381']
Yes staying in Peace for more than 20 days is excused by saying that ? You had no real war all round TPC . You were following the Flag runners thats it . You had the first War vs Us at the very beginning . What else ?
[/quote]

So tell us all exactly what is disturbing you here. Is it that we didn't attack you? I very much doubt you would have enjoyed that considering we have almost as much military strength alone as your entire alliances total strength and you appear to have chickened out of attacking us yourself even with the help of warriors.

Second possibility. You couldn't con warriors into attacking us alone so are now frustrated that instead of suiciding alone against us they are whipping you. Oh the irony.

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[quote name='Jesusfreak' timestamp='1354854497' post='3061343']
See kids, this is how you declare war :P : --> [url="http://tournament.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?search=1000159&Extended=1"]http://tournament.cy...0159&Extended=1[/url]
[/quote]

:wub:

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Haha really King James? You could be at least made an effort to declare an actual war. Are you saying what has happened to TPC was inevitable? Stop with the bs already.

Edited by Swatch0
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^^ What he said!

[quote name='TigerBaby' timestamp='1354865036' post='3061383']Second possibility. You couldn't con warriors into attacking us alone so are now frustrated that instead of suiciding alone against us they are whipping you. Oh the irony.[/quote]

We have a winner!

Hellas wanted us to go in and hit TPC by ourselves, then they "probably" would have come in two days later. As they have said, they hoped that TPC would have already filled our defensive war slots with their offensive war slots - which means fewer potential offensive wars against Hellas. The Warriors and TPC would have 5-6 wars each and Hellas would only have as many wars as they chose to declare - assuming they even declared on TPC at all. Which I have good reason to doubt.

Now while we won't win many grounds against TPC, one thing we do have is 23 Manhatten Projects and 300+ nukes. Though we would lose in overall losses per day, we most likely could have made sure almost every TPC nation got nuked. Which means they can't declare any wars. Which means even fewer wars against Hellas. Plus much easier targets after we have softened them up a bit and at least nuked away planes and whatnot.

So basically Hellas wanted us to be their puppet meat shields.
Now why might we find that insulting?

It's a great reason to hit someone, imho. Then because we wouldn't be their puppet meat shields - Hellas accuses us of being TPC's puppet meat shields. Well screw those guys, we are no one's anything. So have a radioactive lunch and get over that please.

BTW according to the alliance graphs on 12/5/12:
Warriors: 634,267 ns
Hellas: 633,067

That's after our blitz started which knocked them down a bit.
Almost exactly the same number of nations as well.

It's a very even war :)
...and a lot better than what Hellas wanted us to do.

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[quote name='King Ernie' timestamp='1354902331' post='3061474']So have I but... at least I don't need nukes.[/quote]

I dunno if I need them or not, but I do so dearly love them.
Sometimes my WRC and I take our nukes on long walks in the park.

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[quote name='Scooby Doo' timestamp='1354852552' post='3061324']
Bullcrap.
1. Your fake wars were only staged to attack flag runners.
2. You timed these charades in the attempt to avoid real wars.

Not a chance. His wars were completely fake.

Warriors and Hellas hopefully crush each other through the end of this round. At least it isn't a fake war.
[/quote]

Yes sir, fake wars are the TPC way. We planned this exact scenario out three rounds ago. We would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids.

[quote name='wasso' timestamp='1354864079' post='3061381']
Yes staying in Peace for more than 20 days is excused by saying that ? You had no real war all round TPC . You were following the Flag runners thats it . You had the first War vs Us at the very beginning . What else ?
[/quote]

Someone said something about excuses and shady plans? Last I checked, this wasn't a thread about TPC. When things go wrong and plans don't work out, the buck stops with me.

I don't like extended peace.
I don't like boring wars.
I also don't like doing stupid things just to make people in the peanut gallery crow a bit less.

[quote name='Swatch0' timestamp='1354882526' post='3061416']
Haha really King James? You could be at least made an effort to declare an actual war. Are you saying what has happened to TPC was inevitable? Stop with the bs already.
[/quote]

There are an infinite number of ways this round could have gone, not just for TPC. Only 5 mil in start up cash and reset is inevitable.

(shrugs shoulders)

Hey, I believe in listening to people who are leaps and bounds smarter than me (ask my gov). The suggestion box is open for anyone who wants teach me how to avoid flag running and declare actual wars.

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Here is ADude's down-declare seal of approval.

[quote name='ADude' timestamp='1353309076' post='3054448']


[center][img]http://alltriberr.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/approved.png[/img][/center]
[center][size=1]As a down [/size][size=1]declare[/size][/center]
[/quote]

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[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1354901651' post='3061471']
Hellas wanted us to go in and hit TPC by ourselves, then they "probably" would have come in two days later. As they have said, they hoped that TPC would have already filled our defensive war slots with their offensive war slots - which means fewer potential offensive wars against Hellas. The Warriors and TPC would have 5-6 wars each and Hellas would only have as many wars as they chose to declare - assuming they even declared on TPC at all. Which I have good reason to doubt.

Now while we won't win many grounds against TPC, one thing we do have is 23 Manhatten Projects and 300+ nukes. Though we would lose in overall losses per day, we most likely could have made sure almost every TPC nation got nuked. Which means they can't declare any wars. Which means even fewer wars against Hellas. Plus much easier targets after we have softened them up a bit and at least nuked away planes and whatnot.[/quote]

Only in the last 24 hours have I decided I would really like you to suicide on TPC. Not once did I think of it before now.

[quote]
So basically Hellas wanted us to be their puppet meat shields.
Now why might we find that insulting?

It's a great reason to hit someone, imho. Then because we wouldn't be their puppet meat shields - Hellas accuses us of being TPC's puppet meat shields. Well screw those guys, we are no one's anything. So have a radioactive lunch and get over that please.[/quote]

You served TPC before and you have done it again. That is what's insulting and ironic. It's even more insulting that you're spinning it like this.

[quote]
BTW according to the alliance graphs on 12/5/12:
Warriors: 634,267 ns
Hellas: 633,067

That's after our blitz started which knocked them down a bit.
Almost exactly the same number of nations as well.

It's a very even war :)
...and a lot better than what Hellas wanted us to do.
[/quote]

Yeah, we're an even match. Which is why you were paranoid of our intentions and the reason you decided to attack us.

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[quote name='Freddy' timestamp='1354926801' post='3061564']Only in the last 24 hours have I decided I would really like you to suicide on TPC. Not once did I think of it before now.[/quote]
I'd believe that except for this quote of yours:
[quote name='Freddy' timestamp='1354832918' post='3061195']It would have been a good plan to let TPC fill their offensive slots, before Hellas DOWed to make TPC have 5 -6 wars. [/quote]
What was a good plan for you guys sure wasn't a good plan for us now was it?

[quote name='Freddy' timestamp='1354926801' post='3061564']You served TPC before and you have done it again. That is what's insulting and ironic. It's even more insulting that you're spinning it like this.[/quote]
Ain't no spin, son. I quote you guys directly in what your plan regarding the Warriors was.
Also: Our original war alongside TPC - who we had fought a few times over the rounds, but had never before fought alongside - was an [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=113404&#entry3037534"]up-declare[/url]. In a sense it was a resolution of some bad blood that had come up betwen TPC and the Warriors in the past. If one would were to look up these old wars one might find evidence of such wouldn't one?

[quote name='Freddy' timestamp='1354926801' post='3061564']Yeah, we're an even match. Which is why you were paranoid of our intentions and the reason you decided to attack us.[/quote]
This I mostly agree with! Yes, I was definately sure you guys were going to leave us hanging, seeing as how you wanted us as your meat shields in the first place. You are an even war whereas us hitting TPC alone as you wanted was in no way good for our alliance. We attacked you for the insult of thinking we were your meat shields, and for bailing out on a war that was your idea in the first place.

War start stats from alliance pages:
Warriors: 634,267 total ns
Hellas: 633,067 total ns

Current stats from the same place:
Warriors: 541,119 total ns
Hellas: 482,766 total ns

Edited by Clash
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[quote name='King James XVIII' timestamp='1354925105' post='3061557']
Hey, I believe in listening to people who are leaps and bounds smarter than me (ask my gov). The suggestion box is open for anyone who wants teach me how to avoid flag running and declare actual wars.
[/quote]
Maybe not splitting targets and attacking one single alliance your own size would help... also, are those people you listen to the massive lot of flagrunners you allow and support? That would explain things a little... If you really tried, you're certainly capable of turning out wars far fairer than the ones you do (in fact, maybe TPC could even... [i]up[/i]-declare occasionally?!), but anyone can see that TPC is not interested in any such thing.

[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1354932145' post='3061592']
Also: Our original war alongside TPC - who we had fought a few times over the rounds, but had never before fought alongside - was an [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=113404&#entry3037534"]up-declare[/url].
[/quote]
Really not true, as per the splitting across alliances criteria above. Hitting multiple alliances makes coordination practically impossible, since that makes each microcosm of wars become three attackers from the same alliance against three defenders from three separate alliances. The ANS difference made the war fair at best.

[quote name='Freddy' timestamp='1354926801' post='3061564']
Yeah, we're an even match. [b]<Sarcasm removed.>[/b] [s]Which is why you were paranoid of[/s] [b]We're sad you saw right through [/b]our intentions and [s]the reason[/s] you decided to attack us [b]and destroy our precious infrastructure[/b].
[/quote]
Fixed. Oh and also, I'm pretty sure Hellas had the higher ANS and better tier strength, and it's 1 on 1, so...

Edited by Forward
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"it would have been a good plan" NOT - "it was the plan" dumbass.

Kinda like saying "it would have been nice if Warriors didn't backstab us".

Wishful, retrospective thoughts...is all, because Warriors were the only ones planning treachery.

If you insisted on going to war on the 5th, regardless. And we said we would not to go to war on the 5th - that is not a case of us sending you to slaughter. That is a case of stubborn, stupidity.

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[quote name='Forward' timestamp='1354944066' post='3061642']Really not true, as per the splitting across alliances criteria above. Hitting multiple alliances makes coordination practically impossible, since that makes each microcosm of wars become three attackers from the same alliance against three defenders from three separate alliances. The ANS difference made the war fair at best.[/quote]

Now I've seen this argument before and just for giggles I'll play devil's advocate.

First, in this case, it was multiple alliances hitting multiple alliances, which might make a difference. Either way, each of the target alliances isn't defending multiple alliances - they are each only defending their own alliance. You have to match up counter attackers to each of your targeted nations individually. If you have enough defenders, you can put multiple defenders in every attacking nation's war slots. Example: Nations A and B attack nations 1 and 2. In defense you can put nations 3 and 4 on nation A and nations 5 and 6 on nation B. If you are short on defenders, you have nations 3 and 4 hit both A and B. Then 5 and 6 hit both C and D, etc.

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The whole discussion is funny!

Hellas accepted the war with Warriors and give its fight, as always.

What it was disturbing most of us is Warriors leadership betrayal and behaviour like a maid of another alliance twice during this round. They were pretending to be our friends and they were manipulated - or they wanted from the beginning? - against us.

Apart of this we have no problem to fight Warriors or anyone.

In the beginning of this round, it has maybe forgotten by all the big mouths here of various alliances, how they were private messaging Hellas trying to negotiate we do not attack them.

Sometimes incidents like these of this round are good to make you clearly know who are considered friends and who are opportunistically searching to have some remaining food around the lion.

There are more rounds to come ... Hellas will be here ...

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