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Honest Signatures


D34th

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[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1354995796' post='3061869']
I believe I was in GOONS at the time and if you say they were the driving force to wanting NPO smashed, you're deluded.

What you should have said was Umbrella wanted NPO > GOONS were sheeple.
[/quote]
Umbrella and GOONS were the scapegoats, so MK wouldn't come across so much as an alliance who holds permanent grudges and tries keeping alliances down so they can't become a threat.

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[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1354995841' post='3061870']
Your example is not based in the reality of the situation. We started the war we started because of our own reasons for starting it, and MK's desires never played in to it. Even if everything you say is true (of which none of it is), you are citing a 2 year old war that VE started as the only example of VE as "very well known to being a DH puppet for a long time" and I would like to see how someone can honestly say that.
[/quote]

Right. The better example would be you in power vs. Impero.

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[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1354996039' post='3061875']
Umbrella and GOONS were the scapegoats, so MK wouldn't come across so much as an alliance who holds permanent grudges and tries keeping alliances down so they can't become a threat.
[/quote]

ok, you should sign this post as a comedian once said "Dispatch from the bubble".

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[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1354996039' post='3061875']
Umbrella and GOONS were the scapegoats, so MK wouldn't come across so much as an alliance who holds permanent grudges and tries keeping alliances down so they can't become a threat.
[/quote]

Meth "it's always MK's doing" rage?

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[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1354994315' post='3061858']
I'm thinking along the lines of you guys allowing MK to use you guys to advance their goals, such as when they wanted to go after NPO they had you guys attack NpO + all their allies to make sure nobody could assist NPO and all the opposition was already busy in a war with you guys. I realize that war might seem like a while ago to you, but with the manner in which time passes that is the most recent stuff you guys have been up to worth remembering.
[/quote]

It seems a little silly to have to explain such an old and well discussed event, but hey, I'm retired so might as well. MK didn't know our target until less than 24 hours before we went in, around the same time Polaris themselves was first contacted. In fact, PB didn't even know what was about to happen until about a day or two prior. I deliberately kept the entire sequence of events close to my chest (which I tended to do with pretty much everything, much to my own government's dismay) until the last possible moment and waited until I had everything wrapped up in a nice neat package so I could be sure there would only be two possible outcomes: peace or immedate war.

The subsequent engagement of NPO was an afterthought, and even then it was actually spearheaded more by Roq then MK from what I recall, notwithstanding whose membership was louder. Not that I had issue with it mind you, though it wasn't as clean as I would have liked it, it was still better than them becoming involved on an inopportune front.

I never concerned myself with trying to fend off the 'puppet' charge, mostly because it's not one that is lobbied against us very often. Most people can read in between the lines and recognize that just because there are a few alliances who we genuinely like and care about who are allied to MK doesn't mean one equals the other. If that’s something you really, truly think though and are interested in the reality of the situation, I suggest talking to anyone who has ever been allied to us and asked our feelings on the whole 'DH' thing. We haven't exactly made it a secret. Ever.

Edited by Il Impero Romano
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So cute see people trying to portrait VE as a independent alliance who is in possession of her own sphere of influence and not as an alliance that after the failure of PB became just another cannon fodder of DoomHouse.

@Bob Ilyani, you need to try harder.

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[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1354961814' post='3061721']
I know you love me, and you know deep down I love you, it's chemistry that just can't be undone. :wub:
[/quote]

But nobody else is supposed to know!!!


[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1354970589' post='3061739']
In the future if they change, my opinion of them will of course change. Although its what they do which matters much more than what they say, so them taking actions show how much they have changed is required for me to consider them as having really changed. You could say you've changed until you're blue in the face, but if in the next war you fight alongside GOONS yet again then you haven't changed much regardless of any talk or rumors. Its what we do which defines us.
[/quote]

Eh, that's reasonable.

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[quote name='Biff Webster' timestamp='1355025466' post='3062007']
Like MK would associate with this guy^.

Hasn't MK stolen VE's thunder a few times? Even real puppets wouldn't put up with that !@#$.
[/quote]

lol $%&@ MK ... Sith aren't no shroomies ..

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[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1354996242' post='3061876']
Right. The better example would be you in power vs. Impero.
[/quote]

I'd be curious to see how the past three uneventful months have given you the necessary information about VE's direction to be able to make a proper distinction on your Puppetmeter between my time as Lord and Impero's.

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[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1355030061' post='3062020']
I'd be curious to see how the past three uneventful months have given you the necessary information about VE's direction to be able to make a proper distinction on your Puppetmeter between my time as Lord and Impero's.
[/quote]

You clearly haven't cancelled all of your treaties with Doomhouse thereby automatically placing you in the "enabling puppet" category.

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[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1355030061' post='3062020']
I'd be curious to see how the past three uneventful months have given you the necessary information about VE's direction to be able to make a proper distinction on your Puppetmeter between my time as Lord and Impero's.
[/quote]

I think your actions as his subordinate in contrast are more than enough to justify a comment.

This is an OOC forum after all.

The irony that the propaganda doesn't end at the signatures isn't lost on me, though --.

Edited by IYIyTh
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[quote name='rsoxbronco1' timestamp='1355114906' post='3062315']
VE should probably just attack DH. If methrage and myth aren't satisfied , what's the point of being an alliance?
[/quote]

Because hyperbole.

I must be doing something right if [insert leader of alliance] says [abject dismissal of a contestable argument relating to their alliance.]

"You are terrible and should feel bad, also "your posts are bad," I can't believe [insert alliance] lets you post in the OOC forum because I can't seperate IC from OOC."

Berate, discredit, berate, ad hominem.

Insert one liner because I'm too lazy to think of something coherent.

I think I've covered the OWF "How not to win an argument," bingo card.

"We aren't bedfellows, we just share the same direct allies, recent history -- and although our new leadership's worldview (Goldie's relationship with other alliances prior to taking over for Impero, WC = UJP,) isn't exactly a mystery -- we're trying to distance ourselves from the only member of DH we aren't allied to (right now.)"

It's not as preposterous for someone to suggest it as you would like to make it seem.

Doesn't mean it's true -- but certainly a debatable argument.

If you had said "VE is clearly not so quietly attempting to build a new power sphere that likely does not include MK while including Umbrella, Deinos, BFF and GOONS for the future regardless of what outcome in the coming months therefore distancing itself from MK," it would have been a more credible retort. Granted, then there's the missing explanation of how this changes anything given the close bond between two of three members of DH and I'm sure that's a touchy subject.

Edited by IYIyTh
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[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1355069626' post='3062117']
The only way to shed to the puppet label is to do what the OWF crowd wants you to do.
[/quote]

I just wanted to quote this because it 100%, with 0 doubt, is the most time-tested and true sentiment ever to exist on Planet Bob.

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[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1355134370' post='3062358']
I just wanted to quote this because it 100%, with 0 doubt, is the most time-tested and true sentiment ever to exist on Planet Bob.
[/quote]

Not really.

Even if you do what the majority sentiment wants you still carry the stigma from the past (enablers, etc.) -- and actually doing it (loyalty, you did x only for the benefit of y alliance, trading puppet masters.). There's just some jet lag on it catching up to you.

The real trick is waiting it out.

No one's been able to do that yet.

Edited by IYIyTh
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