NoR declares war on LSF

[flak attack]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1339655200' post='2983084']
Um, ancient enemy for a reason. There's a long history and Int's GenCom has Nordreich delenda est in his sig.
[/quote]
NoR is not an old enough alliance to have ancient enemies. NoR was founded after NPO's reign. The idea that NoR could have ancient enemies is, quite frankly, absurd.

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1339655332' post='2983088']
Not speaking of direct fighting, but of NoR's history of war/hostlity on socialist alliances which has fueled a cold war for years between the groupings.
[/quote]
This is, to the best of my knowledge, the first time that NoR has fought a socialist alliance. They have actually been quite willing to ignore the left v right rivalry that other alliances on the right have had in the past. LSF, however, is apparently unwilling to do so.

Edited June 14, 2012 by flak attack

[Monster]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1339656299' post='2983107']
No it wouldn't. Just because we wouldn't like defending LSF doesn't mean we wouldn't all stick together on it. If it were one of our allies who did something stupid and we wanted to defend and call in CnG we would expect INT and the rest of the bloc to honor it. I'm sure TLR and ODN feel the same way. It would be patently against everything we believe as a bloc to let INT go it alone if the invoke the bloc but we don't have to like it.

As for SF yeah I wish we could get in on it and maybe we still can but as long as someone hurts them I guess....
[/quote]

I meant it would change everything in terms of the MK-C&G Unity that has been the case since bloc's inception.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1339656378' post='2983110']
NoR is not an old enough alliance to have ancient enemies. NoR was founded after NPO's reign. The idea that NoR could have ancient enemies is, quite frankly, absurd.


This is, to the best of my knowledge, the first time that NoR has fought a socialist alliance. They have actually been quite willing to ignore the left v right rivalry that other alliances on the right have had in the past. LSF, however, is apparently unwilling to do so.
[/quote]

This NoR is a reformation of the original. That's like trying to claim MK and NPO weren't enemies from the
LUE era. Hell, NoR has a long history vs Leftist alliances.

[Bob]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1339656770' post='2983124']
This NoR is a reformation of the original. That's like trying to claim MK and NPO weren't enemies from the
LUE era. Hell, NoR has a long history vs Leftist alliances.
[/quote]
This NoR isn't the same alliance (same name, different principles). Different leaders, and throughout they have not attacked a leftist alliance until now, when it was clearly provoked. They have avoided the conflict and Int has avoided the conflict until LSF decided to stir the pot.

[magicninja]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1339656413' post='2983111']
I meant it would change everything in terms of the MK-C&G Unity that has been the case since bloc's inception.
[/quote]

Possible but you never know. Something may be worked out if MK talks to NoR and Int talks to LSF or maybe LSF tells INT to stay out and maybe INT says no thanks to the optional aggression. Maybe we all roll and MK has a tougher time than they thought. Any way it plays out CnG will be together and we'll do what we do.

[Bob]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1339656989' post='2983128']
Possible but you never know. Something may be worked out if MK talks to NoR and Int talks to LSF or maybe LSF tells INT to stay out and maybe INT says no thanks to the optional aggression. Maybe we all roll and MK has a tougher time than they thought. Any way it plays out CnG will be together and we'll do what we do.
[/quote]
Yeah considering LSF deliberately started this war and immediately requested aid from all their allies without any hesitation, I don't think that they will telling anyone to stay out.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1339656901' post='2983126']
This NoR isn't the same alliance (same name, different principles). Different leaders, and throughout they have not attacked a leftist alliance until now, when it was clearly provoked. They have avoided the conflict and Int has avoided the conflict until LSF decided to stir the pot.
[/quote]

Really? Did you miss their recent anniversary thread where they spoke of accomplishments in GW II and GW III? This is an extremely silly argument.

[Bob]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1339657147' post='2983133']
Really? Did you miss their recent anniversary thread where they spoke of accomplishments in GW II and GW III? This is an extremely silly argument.
[/quote]
You didn't get the point. They are a different alliance in how they handle the left. I consider that a change in principles, as stated. I did not mean they are a completely new alliance with no connection to the old NoR, that is a stupid argument.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Penlugue Solaris

[Xiphosis]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1339655086' post='2983082']
NoR and Int have never fought before.
[/quote]

We've always been at war with Eastasia.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1339657291' post='2983135']
You didn't get the point. They are a different alliance in how they handle the left. I consider that a change in principles, as stated. I did not mean they are a completely new alliance with no connection to the old NoR, that is a stupid argument.
[/quote]

I can only go by what the post I quote says. Flak seems to be denying NoR is the same alliance that terrorized Leftists in 2006-07 by stating they've never warred a Leftist alliance, by saying they've not attacked a Leftist alliance until now you make the same claim. They actually have quite a history of it and are at it again.

[MutedFaith]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1339657291' post='2983135']
You didn't get the point. They are a different alliance in how they handle the left. I consider that a change in principles, as stated. I did not mean they are a completely new alliance with no connection to the old NoR, that is a stupid argument.
[/quote]

Either they're a new alliance, and haven't fought any socialist alliance before (like you claimed a couple of posts ago) or they're NOT a new alliance (like you claim here) and they HAVE fought socialist alliances before.

[D34th]

[img]http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/funny-gifs-take-a-spin.gif[/img]

Nice spin MK!

Also I don't know why people are surprised with CnG acting like that.

Edited June 14, 2012 by D34th

[Bob]

[quote name='MutedFaith' timestamp='1339657841' post='2983145']
Either they're a new alliance, and haven't fought any socialist alliance before (like you claimed a couple of posts ago) or they're NOT a new alliance (like you claim here) and they HAVE fought socialist alliances before.
[/quote]
Or they are an old alliance that has changed and in their new incarnation have not fought any socialist alliances nor did they plan to until LSF deliberately started a war with them.

$%&@ different incarnations of the same alliance, wording it properly is ridiculous. Quite tired, if I haven't been clear, apologies the below statement should explain my opinion.

My point remains the same: They have changed, and the past few years have shown that by them not fighting any leftist alliances. Whether you consider them the same alliance or a new alliance that is true. The stance is clearly different.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Penlugue Solaris

[supercoolyellow]

Only 30 offensive wars from Nor so far. Gotta raise your game Germans.

Edited June 14, 2012 by supercoolyellow

[Sabcat]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1339648140' post='2982853']
Talk to LSF. Sending aid to rogues then being smart about it is a really, really dumb idea.
[/quote]

Rogues, what rogues?

[Eumirbago]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1339657663' post='2983142']
We've always been at war with Eastasia.
[/quote]
Aye, that we have

[LittleRena]

I'll just leave this here.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v398/MonsterReborn/111-1.png[/IMG]

Carry on with what you where doing.

[Bob]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1339664666' post='2983184']
I'll just leave this here.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v398/MonsterReborn/111-1.png[/IMG]

Carry on with what you where doing.
[/quote]
Its been addressed in one thread or the other.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Canik' timestamp='1339648783' post='2982873']
NoR posting a DoW explaining that would be nice.
[/quote]
why? we all know what's happening.

[Stefano Palmieri]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1339656378' post='2983109']
Sometimes people just wanna have fun.
[/quote]
People who want to have fun are such monsters.

[berbers]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1339654827' post='2983074']
There isn't any spin. [b]LSF went insane[/b]. There is no spin required on this one. Absolute no brainer.
[/quote]

LSF went insane in Bipolar too, except that time it was insane to defend NATO vs GOONS.

[Sabcat]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1339655010' post='2983080']
LSF started this war, not NoR. I think Int can recognize that as well as the fact LSF deliberately is trying to drag them into it.
[/quote]

Between you, Rush Skyes and a few others you've created a narrative that is entirely false. We've attempted to drag no one into anything. Int have known the full situation since before there was a situation. Their GenCom is masked on our boards as a full member, he owns our irc channel. At no point have we requested guarantees from anyone. At no point have we been told "don't do it, it will put us in a terrible situation" and that includes "rogues, what rogues" as our response to those fascist filth at NoR.

Now, we might burn, and Rush will be all happy. So will we and we'll still be close to Int and we'll still be here.

I hope that clears the situation up for you.

[Bob]

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1339667855' post='2983204']
LSF went insane in Bipolar too, except that time it was insane to defend NATO vs GOONS.
[/quote]
My alliance has gone "insane" then to defend allies too. Our allies also didn't start a war deliberately because they are upset about something that happened five years ago, and didn't do despicable things to do so. I don't really think there is a parallel to be drawn there, except that you feel you owe something to them despite their actions here. Definitely understand, but I think the loyalty is flawed given the way they have acted.

[quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1339667930' post='2983205']
Between you, Rush Skyes and a few others you've created a narrative that is entirely false. We've attempted to drag no one into anything. Int have known the full situation since before there was a situation. Their GenCom is masked on our boards as a full member, he owns our irc channel. At no point have we requested guarantees from anyone. At no point have we been told "don't do it, it will put us in a terrible situation" and that includes "rogues, what rogues" as our response to those fascist filth at NoR.

Now, we might burn, and Rush will be all happy. So will we and we'll still be close to Int and we'll still be here.

I hope that clears the situation up for you.
[/quote]
Yes, you deliberately starting a conflict = me creating a false narrative. Thank you for your wise insights.

Would you like to reply "rogues, what rogues" to a reasonable request from someone again, then have one of your members in your IRC channel saying disgusting things for hours in regards to NoR government, while another one of your members goes to a foreign alliance and gives them screenshots of the NoR forums? Oh, and that's not including the fact that another of your members unsanctioned one of the nations going nuclear rogue on NoR.

You created the best CB I've ever seen, and the bottomline is that you have already given the round to NoR. You can't claim a moral victory here, and even if you win, you literally dragged your ally and their friends through the gutter in order to do so. I really, really hope any pyrrhic victory you have the potential to win is was worth it to you. People aren't going to remember this war as LSF's great triumph over NoR (assuming you win). They are going to recall LSF being a bunch of !@#$@#$ idiots.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Penlugue Solaris

[Sabcat]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1339668672' post='2983209']
My alliance has gone "insane" then to defend allies too. Our allies also didn't start a war deliberately because they are upset about something that happened five years ago, and didn't do despicable things to do so. I don't really think there is a parallel to be drawn there, except that you feel you owe something to them despite their actions here. Can't say I don't understand, but I think the loyalty is flawed given the way they have acted.


Yes, you deliberately starting a conflict = me creating a false narrative. Thank you for your wise insights.

Would you like to reply "rogues, what rogues" to a reasonable request from someone again, then have one of your members in your IRC channel saying disgusting things for hours in regards to NoR government, while another one of your members goes to a foreign alliance and gives them screenshots of the NoR forums? Oh, and that's not including the fact that another of your members unsanctioned one of the nations going nuclear rogue on NoR.

You created the best CB I've ever seen, and the bottomline is that you have already given the round to NoR. You can't claim a moral victory here, and even if you win, you literally dragged your ally and their friends through the gutter in order to do so. I really, really hope any pyrrhic victory you have the potential to win is was worth it to you. People aren't going to remember this war as LSF's great triumph over NoR (assuming you win). They are going to recall LSF being a bunch of !@#$@#$ idiots.
[/quote]

No, the false narrative is based on the idea that we've been trying to drag someone into something.

The rest of your post is a little flustered, I'd have a lie down if I were you.

All I can tell you, to try and make the situation clear, is that as far as we're concerned NoR are fascist filth. As such they deserve no respect or diplomatic niceties afforded to others. Their existence is offensive to us.

[Bob]

[quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1339669421' post='2983214']
No, the false narrative is based on the idea that we've been trying to drag someone into something. [/quote]
[quote] It's not much of a secret right now that LSF is pushing hard on Nord, we expect to be lit up by panzer fire here soon. Calls are being made to your ally(?) the International to honor our MDP, if you guys are bored maybe you could use these as a CB, I sure know we need all the help we can get.
[/quote]

Would you like fries with that? I can get a screenshot of that if you would prefer and the person who wrote it is confirmed to be an LSF member. Ask Piley about it, if you aren't already aware.

[quote]
The rest of your post is a little flustered, I'd have a lie down if I were you.

All I can tell you, to try and make the situation clear, is that as far as we're concerned NoR are fascist filth. As such they deserve no respect or diplomatic niceties afforded to others. Their existence is offensive to us.
[/quote]
I note how you avoid commenting on what you have done.


I would too. Pretending that this is all about NoR being fascist filth and not that you are deliberately antagonizing them is a better card to try to play with your allies.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Penlugue Solaris