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A new Declaration from The Order of the Paradox


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[quote name='Vladimir Stukov II' timestamp='1322537027' post='2855361']Going by Polar's past record I doubt they ever come out.[/quote]I think you're confusing us with Pacifica. It's okay. We both have Order in our name. Totally understandable mistake that simple folk make all the time.

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[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1322535467' post='2855330']
Hiding is such a loaded word...how about waiting as a better term.
[/quote]


It's ok Grub. I am sure that TOP will be understanding of your decision to wait. Because after all:


[IMG]http://www.deviantart.com/download/3594860/TRUE_LOVE_WAITS.jpg[/IMG]


Just don't keep them waiting long, they've got balls bluer than Polaris already.

Edited by Londo Mollari
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[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1322539436' post='2855455']
I think you're confusing us with Pacifica. It's okay. We both have Order in our name. Totally understandable mistake that simple folk make all the time.
[/quote]

Nope. You did this last time TOP stomped you.

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[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1322543738' post='2855552']
Which was what? War of the Coalition? 4 or 5 wars ago?

You people really do have no grasp for the concept of time, do you?
[/quote]
Given that you backstabbed us in 2010 for something that had occured in 2008, I'd say we consider time in a fairly similar manner.

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[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1322543949' post='2855557']Given that you backstabbed us in 2010 for something that had occured in 2008, I'd say we consider time in a fairly similar manner.[/quote]I didn't backstab you over 2008. I followed orders I had severe reservations about because I figured the alternative was a collapse in internal discipline and the implosion of the alliance I'd invested over three years of my life in.

Realistic expectation? Not sure in hindsight. But hindsight is 20/20 and anyone who experienced those events from near their epicenter knows how !@#$@#$ chaotic and uncertain things were at the time.

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[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1322543949' post='2855557']
Given that you backstabbed us in 2010 for something that had occured in 2008, I'd say we consider time in a fairly similar manner.
[/quote]
Ok that one was pretty good.

I chuckled a fair amount at the irony.

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[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1322544545' post='2855568']
I didn't backstab you over 2008. I followed orders I had severe reservations about because I figured the alternative was a collapse in internal discipline and the implosion of the alliance I'd invested over three years of my life in.

Realistic expectation? Not sure in hindsight. But hindsight is 20/20 and anyone who experienced those events from near their epicenter knows how !@#$@#$ chaotic and uncertain things were at the time.
[/quote]
The "you" was aimed at your alliance, not you in specific.

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[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1322544984' post='2855575']
What is amusing is you pretending to have the authority to tell me how my alliance reacted to an event we lived through.
[/quote]
What?

I told you you guys backstabbed us in 2010 over what occured in 2008 and, as such, should probably refrain from saying we take long to act on grudges.

Quit your "pretending to have the authority to tell me" drama. it's what occured, plain and simple. Even Grub came and told us many many times.

Edited by Yevgeni Luchenkov
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I enjoy Polar finding reasons to justify any actions that they have taken in the past to this present day. The biggest issue is that you refuse to accept any responsibility for the actions of your past governments and the actions of its past members that have put it in the place it is at now. If it had apologized and tried to fix some of it's relationships it would probably not be in the position it is in now. I don't think I have ever seen an alliance act so pompous after getting pounded numerous times.

I believe it was a Polaris leader that once called an alliance out for being pompous and it's attitude unbecoming of the community, then proceeded to attack said alliance. Maybe you should take that advice yourself, or follow in that alliances example.

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[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1322545086' post='2855579']
What?

I told you you guys backstabbed us in 2010 over what occured in 2008 and, as such, should probably refrain from saying we take long to act on grudges.

Quit your "pretending to have the authority to tell me" drama. it's what occured, plain and simple. Even Grub came and told us many many times.[/quote]You are assigning a dark ulterior motive to my entire alliance with little knowledge how my people actually responded to the events of BiPolar because it suits your petty, narrow-minded sense of vengeance. Do not pretend you are doing anything else.

And if you think Grub actually is indicative of Polar as whole then you are either tragically misguided or laughably detached from reality.

Edited by Fallen Fool
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[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1322545616' post='2855590']
You are assigning a dark ulterior motive to my entire alliance with little knowledge how my people actually responded to the events of BiPolar because it suits your petty, narrow-minded sense of vengeance. Do not pretend you are doing anything else.
[/quote]

Fallen Fool: the prototypical Polar. Arrogant, condescending, and possessed of a victim complex and an utter disability to accept responsibility for anything.

[quote]
And if you think Grub actually is indicative of Polar as whole then you are either tragically misguided or laughably detached from reality.
[/quote]

I remember you coming to our boards and begging us to accept the "New Emperor" shpiel from your alliance again. Pretty funny. You say that you carry no responsibility. The fact is that you and many others stayed in Polar to enable Grub's betrayal, then remained in the alliance afterward; of all of you in government, and of everyone in the senior membership (and of almost everyone in the general membership), only Moridin had the fortitude to resign and quit the alliance, for which brave and noble act he was widely condemned as a traitor by members of your alliance. And if you all are were again to find yourselves in a a situation similar to Bipolar (highly unlikely, because you'll be an insignificant, smoking crater by the time this war is over), and if Random were to do the same thing Grub did, you'd all do it all over again without blinking.

Edited by Crymson
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[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1322545616' post='2855590']
You are assigning a dark ulterior motive to my entire alliance with little knowledge how my people actually responded to the events of BiPolar because it suits your petty, narrow-minded sense of vengeance. Do not pretend you are doing anything else.

And if you think Grub actually is indicative of Polar as whole then you are either tragically misguided or laughably detached from reality.
[/quote]
Your people responded like they always do, they fell in line and very few of them actually left. And for close to a year, most of those we interacted with gloated about it.

There is no "dark ulterior motive". Your government, in 2010, acted the way they did because of their grudge from 2008. And I find Grub's opinion on the events of 2010 pretty relevant, mind you.

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[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1322545616' post='2855590']
You are assigning a dark ulterior motive to my entire alliance with little knowledge how my people actually responded to the events of BiPolar because it suits your petty, narrow-minded sense of vengeance. Do not pretend you are doing anything else.

And if you think Grub actually is indicative of Polar as whole then you are either tragically misguided or laughably detached from reality.
[/quote]
When you all find the spine to move out from under his shadow and actually make amends for your actions, rather than blaming everyone else (hi) for your collective nonsense, maybe this fine sentiment you're expressing here will manage to gain some traction with people.

Until then, $%&@ off, you self-righteous ass. You left your allies (hi) to die on the battlefield after that backstabbing and then proceeded to blame us for having the gall to expect treatment equal to what you gave the rest of your allies as a consolation prize for nearly getting them rolled?

Again, screw off, you self-righteous tool.

Don't even [i]talk[/i] to people about narrow-mindedness, considering Polar Tunnel Vision. You're almost as bad as the Legion.

Get out. Seriously. Get out, right now.

Edited by TehChron
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[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1322545616' post='2855590']
You are assigning a dark ulterior motive to my entire alliance with little knowledge how my people actually responded to the events of BiPolar because it suits your petty, narrow-minded sense of vengeance. Do not pretend you are doing anything else.

And if you think Grub actually is indicative of Polar as whole then you are either tragically misguided or laughably detached from reality.
[/quote]


I love this throw grub under the bus mentality. If you really disagreed with him as an alliance, why didn't you coup him and retract his dual front war?

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[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1322545616' post='2855590']
And if you think Grub actually is indicative of Polar as whole then you are either tragically misguided or laughably detached from reality.
[/quote]

Actually, given that at pretty much any point in your history the emperor is the alliance, and the opinions of anyone else hardly matters. You either support the emperor of Polaris or you leave.

At the time, Grub was Polar, having him removed/abdicated does not wash away any guilt seeing that all members of Polaris already share responsibility for everything he did.

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[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1322545616' post='2855590']
You are assigning a dark ulterior motive to my entire alliance with little knowledge how my people actually responded to the events of BiPolar because it suits your petty, narrow-minded sense of vengeance.
[/quote]
Your feelings mean nothing if you don't follow them up with action. You may have kicked and screamed at the actions of your leadership during the war but in the end you fell in line like the good little solider you are. That is what matters in the end.

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[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1322545616' post='2855590']
And if you think Grub actually is indicative of Polar as whole then you are either tragically misguided or laughably detached from reality.
[/quote]
From reading your posts I think we can safely say Grub's method of playing politics lives on.

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[quote name='BloodFury' timestamp='1322545375' post='2855584']I enjoy Polar finding reasons to justify any actions that they have taken in the past to this present day. The biggest issue is that you refuse to accept any responsibility for the actions of your past governments and the actions of its past members that have put it in the place it is at now. If it had apologized and tried to fix some of it's relationships it would probably not be in the position it is in now. I don't think I have ever seen an alliance act so pompous after getting pounded numerous times. I believe it was a Polaris leader that once called an alliance out for being pompous and it's attitude unbecoming of the community, then proceeded to attack said alliance. Maybe you should take that advice yourself, or follow in that alliances example.[/quote]Two things.

First, I admitted I followed Grub's orders in regard to TOP. If that's not accepting responsibility for "betraying" TOP I don't know what else is. All I did was reject Yev's attempts to define my motives for me, as I know why I did what I did far better then he does.

Second, Polar sent a diplomatic team to TOP to accept responsibility and apologize. TOP showered them with obscenities and generally acted worse then MK on an incredibly bad day.

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1322545867' post='2855592']
Fallen Fool: the prototypical Polar. Arrogant, condescending, and possessed of a victim complex and an utter disability to accept responsibility for anything.[/quote]Said the pot to the kettle.

[quote] I remember you coming to our boards and begging us to accept the "New Emperor" shpiel from your alliance again. Pretty funny. You say that you carry no responsibility. The fact is that you and many others stayed in Polar to help after Grub's betrayal, then remained in the alliance afterward. And if you were ever put into a situation similar to Bipolar (highly unlikely, because you'll be an insignificant, smoking crater by the time this war is over) and Random did the same thing Grub did, you'd do it again without blinking.[/quote]I certainly would because I believe in Polar, I believe in my community and I believe if I participate and try to improve things they will be improved.

Call me an idealist.

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1322545893' post='2855594']Your people responded like they always do, they fell in line and very few of them actually left. And for close to a year, most of those we interacted with gloated about it.There is no "dark ulterior motive". Your government, in 2010, acted the way they did because of their grudge from 2008. And I find Grub's opinion on the events of 2010 pretty relevant, mind you.[/quote]My people fell into line because the only other realistic option was to abandon Polar, which none of us wanted to do, save one individual who decided his conscience trumped the preservation of the community.

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1322546057' post='2855596']
When you all find the spine to move out from under his shadow and actually make amends for your actions, rather than blaming everyone else (hi) for your collective nonsense, maybe this fine sentiment you're expressing here will manage to gain some traction with people.Until then, $%&@ off, you self-righteous ass. You left your allies (hi) to die on the battlefield after that backstabbing and then proceeded to blame us for having the gall to expect treatment equal to what you gave the rest of your allies as a consolation prize for nearly getting them rolled? Again, screw off, you self-righteous tool. Don't even [i]talk[/i] to people about narrow-mindedness, considering Polar Tunnel Vision. You're almost as bad as the Legion. Get out. Seriously. Get out, right now.
[/quote]We tried to open channels of communication with TOP in order to find some sort of way to make amends.

They told us to $%&@ off and that they would kill us one of these days. Which, ultimately, is there prerogative. But do not act like we never tried to make amends.

[quote name='deSouza' timestamp='1322546259' post='2855599']
I love this throw grub under the bus mentality. If you really disagreed with him as an alliance, why didn't you coup him and retract his dual front war?[/quote]I am not trying to destroy Grub, I am relating events as I saw them. If it looks like Polar did not know what Grub was up to, it's because Polar did not know what Grub was up to. I am fairly certain Grub would agree with that analysis.

As for the coup thing, look further down.

[quote]Actually, given that at pretty much any point in your history the emperor is the alliance, and the opinions of anyone else hardly matters. You either support the emperor of Polaris or you leave.

At the time, Grub was Polar, having him removed/abdicated does not wash away any guilt seeing that all members of Polaris already share responsibility for everything he did.[/quote]The Emperor is not the alliance, he is the man entrusted by the Body Republic with sovereign power and he can only use that sovereign power effectively as long as he has its confidence. Grub came to believe, rightly I think, that he lost the confidence of the Body Republic after the TOP fiasco and he committed to abdicate once he cleaned up the mess he created.

So, to put it in democratic parlance, he was confirmed as Emperor through mass consent and he resigned once the consent was withdrawn. Given the crisis, however, he stayed on in a caretaker capacity until the crisis was resolved.

Does that absolve Polar for betraying TOP? No clue. But it does, I hope, give you a better insight into how Polar works so you can stop parroting the "OMG EMPEROR IS POLAR" line.

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1322546498' post='2855613']
Your feelings mean nothing if you don't follow them up with action. You may have kicked and screamed at the actions of your leadership during the war but in the end you fell in line like the good little solider you are. That is what matters in the end.
[/quote]Action like what? Abandon the only alliance most of us had ever know? Leave the foot soldiers in a lurch and leaderless during a dual front war? Coup an Emperor at a time of great confusion and foreign war, because that always works out well for the alliance at the center?

We were not willing to kill our alliance. So we helped kill yours. Hate us if you want, but no rational individual who actually wanted their alliance to survive would have reacted any other way.

Edited by Fallen Fool
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