A new Declaration from The Order of the Paradox

[Ayatollah Bromeini]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1322460403' post='2854466']
Something which bears no relevance to SF as a whole. Or much of anything around here, really.
[/quote]


Considering it's where they decided to stick their coalition channel, I don't know if I'd say that.

[NoMercy]

[quote name='empirica' timestamp='1322447223' post='2854153']
Afraid it is true, I was an admin and saw it. It was rectified at better than TOP speed and most planning took place in IRC anyway. But the intent was still wrong. Polar made a multitude of mistakes during that time period, mistakes that were talked about in private during and after. Some of us put friendship over politics and forgave. Some of us did not. None of the MDP level partners in BLEU sucked up to Polar, it was a democratically run bloc. And everything was questioned. Not saying mistakes weren't made, obviously they were. Polar wasn't blameless and neither were the rest of us. As for reading up on history, I've been here since June 06, I was here for pretty much all of it.
[/quote]

1. To the spying: If it happened, it wasn't sanctioned by the government. If you gave us the evidence, it wouldn't have stayed unpunished. In retrospect, that's all I can say about that.

2. In your very first post you attempted to draw a picture of us as an opportunistic, disloyal group. This second post, sounds different.
And I am very glad you mention the "friends over treaties" point. That's exactly what we did.
We grew apart from the NpO for months, as mentioned, they slapped our face with hitting alliances we'd be obligated to defense. They tried to play our direct allies GGA and Grämlins into a war. That showed us, that they totally disregarded us, and attempted to use us for their own good. Really, after that, there was nothing left to repair. We knew, they'd just fool us again.


3. I can't understand that you believe we were democratic at any point. When we decided to hit NADC - as an example - Polar told us, that they'll show us the evidence. When it didn't come, and we questioned the whole war, the insulted us for not being loyal. That's not what I'd call a democratic procedure. It was a "Polar suggests something, everyone agrees, and the bully train rolls" system.

But back on track: What they have done to us, is exactly what they pulled 2 years later. They aren't honest. They play people for their own advantage. That is a legit strategy. Thanks to the good communication of TOP, MCXA, Grämlins and a few others it didn't work the first time. It however worked the second time, and now they are receiving the bills for it.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1322460845' post='2854488']
Considering it's where they decided to stick their coalition channel, I don't know if I'd say that.
[/quote]
It's a splendid place.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Gibsonator21

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1322458045' post='2854289']
i thought you loved me AvT D:
[/quote]
I do. What does that have to do with logs though?

[Nihilist Tyrant]

Congrats TOP on getting your revenge for losing your infra/tech in a losing war. Trust an historical enemy and that's where it gets you. No matter the causes, thanks for the fun.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

One of the best declarations of war I've seen written.. Love the illustrations you've provided with it.

[TheEraser]

always new TOP was scum. can't wait to watch burn.

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='elborrador' timestamp='1322503699' post='2854958']
always new TOP was scum. can't wait to watch burn.
[/quote]

I'm beginning to figure out how D34th won this election of his.

[TheEraser]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1322505190' post='2854972']
I'm beginning to figure out how D34th won this election of his.
[/quote]
well considering i'm not in polaris....

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='elborrador' timestamp='1322506173' post='2854981']
well considering i'm not in polaris....
[/quote]

You honestly expect me to look up your alliance to double-check it's not the one you've listed here?

[TheEraser]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1322506398' post='2854983']
You honestly expect me to look up your alliance to double-check it's not the one you've listed here?
[/quote]
nope, i'm just too lazy to update things. we are at a cross roads

[flak attack]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1322460578' post='2854470']
You and Mogar are probably the only reasons people actually have started to dislike RIA at all (besides those who always have)
[/quote]
Reminder that they have an SOS treaty.

[empirica]

[quote name='NoMercy' timestamp='1322461583' post='2854522']
1. To the spying: If it happened, it wasn't sanctioned by the government. If you gave us the evidence, it wouldn't have stayed unpunished. In retrospect, that's all I can say about that.

2. In your very first post you attempted to draw a picture of us as an opportunistic, disloyal group. This second post, sounds different.
And I am very glad you mention the "friends over treaties" point. That's exactly what we did.
We grew apart from the NpO for months, as mentioned, they slapped our face with hitting alliances we'd be obligated to defense. They tried to play our direct allies GGA and Grämlins into a war. That showed us, that they totally disregarded us, and attempted to use us for their own good. Really, after that, there was nothing left to repair. We knew, they'd just fool us again.


3. I can't understand that you believe we were democratic at any point. When we decided to hit NADC - as an example - Polar told us, that they'll show us the evidence. When it didn't come, and we questioned the whole war, the insulted us for not being loyal. That's not what I'd call a democratic procedure. It was a "Polar suggests something, everyone agrees, and the bully train rolls" system.

But back on track: What they have done to us, is exactly what they pulled 2 years later. They aren't honest. They play people for their own advantage. That is a legit strategy. Thanks to the good communication of TOP, MCXA, Grämlins and a few others it didn't work the first time. It however worked the second time, and now they are receiving the bills for it.
[/quote]
1. Very shortly after this happened, the noCB war happened. Didn't figure we had a chance at doing anything about it given the circumstances.
2. Wasn't meant to but tbh that was pretty much what I thought of MCXA at the time. Despite many attempts at the time to make it otherwise, my then alliance was much closer with Polar than you guys, and several other alliances affiliated with BLEU. They were our friends before protectors, and their friendship will never be forgotten. Never got close enough to MCXA (and a few others) to have that level of relationship, hence standing alongside our friends in Polar through all the bad times.
3. Wasn't in BLEU for NADC part I but what I saw on the BLEU forums painted a fairly united picture, though I recall a couple dissenters. NADC part II didn't meet with any real debate. It was still democratically run because majority ruled (don't recall the specifics, maybe 3/4? Not sure)

Everyone who's ever gotten anywhere in this game played people for their own advantage. Some alliances are just more blatant about it, and tend to get rolled for their trouble. I'm unsure of what first time you speak of.. Gramlins DoWd Polar for reasons unrelated to the rest of the noCB war, I always assumed it was for the assumption that Polar engineered the war against them, which wasn't the case but was the commonly held belief.

[Faroah]

Personally, I see this whole "Paradoxians always pay back their debts" business as being blatantly revenge. I don't really think revenge for a crime committed 2 years ago is legitimate for a current DoW. I think this type of thing would have been best settled by sitting down and talking to them about their betrayal, as you put it, and letting all of CN know what took place then. But don't you think starting a war over something like 2 years ago is a bit much?

I mean, I'm not trying to insult anyone, but this is just what the entire affair seems like to me.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Faroah

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1322506817' post='2854990']
Reminder that they have an SOS treaty.
[/quote]

Well played.

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='Faroah' timestamp='1322519849' post='2855111']
Personally, I see this whole "Paradoxians always pay back their debts" business as being blatantly revenge. I don't really think revenge for a crime committed 2 years ago is legitimate for a current DoW. I think this type of thing would have been best settled by sitting down and talking to them about their betrayal, as you put it, and letting all of CN know what took place then. But don't you think starting a war over something like 2 years ago is a bit much?

I mean, I'm not trying to insult anyone, but this is just what the entire affair seems like to me.
[/quote]

Clearly this person has not experienced the side-effects of losing an already brutal war.

[Joe Stupid]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1322520066' post='2855113']
Clearly this person has not experienced the side-effects of losing an already brutal war.
[/quote]

He is in Sparta.

[DogeWilliam]

[quote name='Faroah' timestamp='1322519849' post='2855111']
Personally, I see this whole "Paradoxians always pay back their debts" business as being blatantly revenge. I don't really think revenge for a crime committed 2 years ago is legitimate for a current DoW. I think this type of thing would have been best settled by sitting down and talking to them about their betrayal, as you put it, and letting all of CN know what took place then. But don't you think starting a war over something like 2 years ago is a bit much?

I mean, I'm not trying to insult anyone, but this is just what the entire affair seems like to me.
[/quote]

Oh I remember the betrayal like it was yesterday. Aye, NpOo deserves no mercy!

[NoMercy]

[quote name='empirica' timestamp='1322518189' post='2855097']
1. Very shortly after this happened, the noCB war happened. Didn't figure we had a chance at doing anything about it given the circumstances.
2. Wasn't meant to but tbh that was pretty much what I thought of MCXA at the time. Despite many attempts at the time to make it otherwise, my then alliance was much closer with Polar than you guys, and several other alliances affiliated with BLEU. They were our friends before protectors, and their friendship will never be forgotten. Never got close enough to MCXA (and a few others) to have that level of relationship, hence standing alongside our friends in Polar through all the bad times.
3. Wasn't in BLEU for NADC part I but what I saw on the BLEU forums painted a fairly united picture, though I recall a couple dissenters. NADC part II didn't meet with any real debate. It was still democratically run because majority ruled (don't recall the specifics, maybe 3/4? Not sure)

Everyone who's ever gotten anywhere in this game played people for their own advantage. Some alliances are just more blatant about it, and tend to get rolled for their trouble. I'm unsure of what first time you speak of.. Gramlins DoWd Polar for reasons unrelated to the rest of the noCB war, I always assumed it was for the assumption that Polar engineered the war against them, which wasn't the case but was the commonly held belief.
[/quote]

We understood and respected your decision. Most of the small alliances in BLEU were very focused on NpO, while we drifted away from the bloc with other treaties. Then again, leaving BLEU was neither an opportunistic move, nor did we have a choice. It was inevitable considering there were other alliances we called friends that were indirectly assaulted and considering our relationship died with every upcoming day.

[Griff]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1322520066' post='2855113']
Clearly this person has not experienced the side-effects of losing an already brutal war.
[/quote]
Only a Spartan could puke up something like that.

[Timberland]

[quote name='elborrador' timestamp='1322503699' post='2854958']
always new TOP was scum. can't wait to watch burn.
[/quote]

Anyone can talk the talk when they're hiding in peacemode

Edited November 29, 2011 by Timberland

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='Timberland' timestamp='1322535121' post='2855328']
Anyone can talk the talk when they're hiding in peacemode
[/quote]

Hiding is such a loaded word...how about waiting as a better term.

[mattski133]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1322535467' post='2855330']
Hiding is such a loaded word...how about waiting as a better term.
[/quote]

for the war to end? or is this a type of waiting we haven't seen yet.

[Vladimir Stukov II]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1322536361' post='2855349']
for the war to end? or is this a type of waiting we haven't seen yet.
[/quote]

Going by Polar's past record I doubt they ever come out.

[Timberland]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1322535467' post='2855330']
Hiding is such a loaded word...how about waiting as a better term.
[/quote]

I just call it like I see it nephew