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A new Declaration from The Order of the Paradox


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Tygaland, I will address your question.

C&G would have more likely than not entered the war. It was contained because both sides weren't sure who had the upper hand. We, along several others, figured we were outnumbered in virtually all categories but could perhaps pull a victory by striking first and on our terms. Had we wanted to [i]get back at someone[/i], we would have only attacked MK. In hindsight, that could have been a better move, even strategically. The rest of C&G weren't really provoking us publicly so we had no reason to attack them, other than strategical ones.

You can disagree with that but the fact of the matter is that Polaris gave us their support and approval for that strike, knowing full well it was part of the coalition effort. We simply skipped a treaty chain, in short.

Wether or not you agree with the move or the reason why we did the move doesn't change the simple fact that Polaris betrayed us by giving us their approval and then turning around, making peace and not only abandoning us on the battlefield but declaring on us.

That is why we are moving today. As for some other deluded fools, TOP has never made a secret that we would be coming for Polaris in due time. It's been nineteen months since the end of the BiPolar war. We had to not only rebuild but also pay 270,000 units of technology. Given our small membership, it took time.

All factored, we took less than a year to strike back at Polaris. And we did our move in the open, never hiding our intentions. We can't say the same for our old rivals.

You're welcome and we expect to see STA and other Polaris' allies on the battlefield.


@Rotavele: just stop posting. You're in a competition with d34th to become the worst deputy MoFA of all time.

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[quote name='zzzptm' timestamp='1322323322' post='2852535']
So you're saying that GOD *has* cojones?

Cool, so that means GOD will counter people that hit RIA when it supports NpO.

Cool story, bro.
[/quote]

Cant wait for GOD to teach us what real cojones look like.

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[quote name='Rotavele' timestamp='1322301477' post='2852243']
Honestly all I hear is "You betrayed us 3 years ago, You made us pay reps because we lost a war, and now that we have became friends with someone stronger then you were gonna fight you!".

It was funnier when TOP was going to declare 3 days ago but then lost support from their new allies and they ran like cowards. The reason there is 66 wars by IRON/TOP is because they're not even fighting, PB/DH is fighting for TOP. If PB/DH dropped support for TOP tomorrow, TOP would call a ceasefire and beg for white peace. TOP will never fight this war, only talk about how they did so well when someone else tries to roll Polar. If TOP was offended so much of getting "betrayed" by Polaris back then, then why didn't they declare 2 years ago and settle the issue?

EDIT: Polaris, Please fill out a new debt slip to TOP for 253,000 Tech this time... So they can call it an even 500,000.
[/quote]
People like you are the reason radio silence is your friend.

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[quote name='rsoxbronco1' timestamp='1322325987' post='2852583']
People like you are the reason radio silence is your friend.
[/quote]

To the contrary, I hate radio silence. I love people that become so blinded with irrational anger and hatred that they can no longer formulate a coherent response to anything anyone says other than: "BLARGH EVERYTHING YOU DO IS WRONG!!!" To the point that simple functions such as mathematics and time become overlooked and ignored to make a point seem more valid.

Radio silence is not my friend, it is my enemy. Where would the world be without those kinds of posts?

Edited by Wu Tang Clan
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[quote name='Rotavele' timestamp='1322301477' post='2852243']
Honestly all I hear is "You betrayed us 3 years ago, You made us pay reps because we lost a war, and now that we have became friends with someone stronger then you were gonna fight you!".


[/quote]

I am sure TOP would have hit Polar even without any support at some point. That the NpO is without (gamechanging)friends isn't TOP's fault either. It's the result of their deeds, it's their lack of trust-ability and their human resource management.

To be honest, I'd have rather seen a good even fight, but Polars incompetence won't allow that.

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[quote name='Rotavele' timestamp='1322301477' post='2852243']
Honestly all I hear is "You betrayed us 3 years ago, You made us pay reps because we lost a war, and now that we have became friends with someone stronger then you were gonna fight you!".

It was funnier when TOP was going to declare 3 days ago but then lost support from their new allies and they ran like cowards. The reason there is 66 wars by IRON/TOP is because they're not even fighting, PB/DH is fighting for TOP. If PB/DH dropped support for TOP tomorrow, TOP would call a ceasefire and beg for white peace. TOP will never fight this war, only talk about how they did so well when someone else tries to roll Polar. If TOP was offended so much of getting "betrayed" by Polaris back then, then why didn't they declare 2 years ago and settle the issue?

EDIT: Polaris, Please fill out a new debt slip to TOP for 253,000 Tech this time... So they can call it an even 500,000.
[/quote]
You're just as foolish as others

Declare 3 days ago and then lost support? Go ask support and see what the first date has always been. If anything TOP went early. If you honestly think anyone got scared of RIA signing with Polar in that !@#$ of a "call out" thread then you truly belong in CSN. We were all laughing our asses off when that thread came out.

Edited by Greg23
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[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1322296048' post='2852163']
The RIA menace.
[/quote]
Thanks for this, I laughed out loud.

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1322303370' post='2852279']
Um, if you were paying attention to 1) the bipolar war or 2) the name of the MK-TOP treaty you would realise that TOP will be pulling out of the war as soon as MK enters on their behalf. That is why there are only 66 declarations at present, TOP is preserving its nations so it can attack us alongside the NpO.
[/quote]
Lol Banksy :wub:

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1322304484' post='2852296']
Some of the same people that were outraged at TOP/IRON's hit on C&G pre-emptively hit the NPO in a later war so their views on such matters are incredibly flexible.

The main issue of Bi-Polar was that TOP wanted to use the war underway to take C&G down and Grub, who despises TOP, saw a chance to trip TOP up. Both parties were happy to use the situation and their allies to achieve their goal. Grub won and TOP and Co have been pissed about it ever since. TOP/IRON were not victims in this, they were aggressors based on self-interest. Grub was a man with a grudge who saw a chance to indulge it and it cost him and his alliance a lot. I am sure he thinks it is worth it.
[/quote]
Finally, some truth.

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1322313233' post='2852389']
I agree with you more often than not, Schatt, but in this case, not so much. As someone who was there for all of this, I agree that TOP and IRON were screwed over by Polaris in this war, as were many other alliances, STA included. It took a long, long time for us to work through our differences with Polaris over Bipolar.

I agree that this war has been a long time coming, and is deserved. I will fight because Polaris is STA's ally, and because war is fun. I don't, however, think this CB is spurious or contrived. From the minute Bipolar ended, TOP has said "We're coming for you. Expect us." They've come, and it's on. I wish everyone good luck, and a good war.
[/quote]
More truth.

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1322315717' post='2852409']
I'll try and keep an aid slot open. When are GOONs reps supposed to be arriving?
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeriswutL1.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
It's a Beefspari sighting! The answer to your question is: as soon as GOONS finishes fighting on the winning side.

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[quote name='NoMercy' timestamp='1322326222' post='2852594']
That the NpO is without (gamechanging)friends isn't TOP's fault either. It's the result of their deeds, it's their lack of trust-ability and their human resource management.
[/quote]

What should be stressed here is Polar's lack of ability to be trusted along with their poor record of how they treated their allies just doesn't stem from the Bi-Polar war. Hell, it even extends past the days of BLEU. Polar was a !@#$% alliance run by !@#$%bags 5 years ago. Their high and mighty, full of themselves mentality has finally caught up with them once people figured out what they were all about. The difference between ES and the leaders that followed was ES had a great talent for being able to insult you and have you believe he just gave you a compliment. Everyone followed that cult of personality. Anyone that saw through it were invariably trounced and it wotked. NpO was a great and successful alliance because of it.

However, ES was right when he stated to the alliance that HE was NpO. Without him at the helm, the alliance had a leader with the same arrogance that was eventually its downfall because face it, Grub is no ES. When MCXA left BLEU, Polar called them fair weather friends and traitors. No. It's just back then MCXA knew what you guys were well before anyone else and did what was right. Polar did a great job at playing the victim. Now? Your plays at it again will no longer be viewed as nothing more than the desperation it is.

Reap it Polar..

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[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1322304484' post='2852296']
Some of the same people that were outraged at TOP/IRON's hit on C&G pre-emptively hit the NPO in a later war so their views on such matters are incredibly flexible.

The main issue of Bi-Polar was that TOP wanted to use the war underway to take C&G down and Grub, who despises TOP, saw a chance to trip TOP up. Both parties were happy to use the situation and their allies to achieve their goal. Grub won and TOP and Co have been pissed about it ever since. TOP/IRON were not victims in this, they were aggressors based on self-interest. Grub was a man with a grudge who saw a chance to indulge it and it cost him and his alliance a lot. I am sure he thinks it is worth it.
[/quote]

And Tyga again comes in with the "Grub had a master plan" nonsense. What do you think you're accomplishing with your trite nonsense in these DoWs?

Edited by Crymson
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[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1322329385' post='2852643']
And Tyga again comes in with the "Grub had a master plan" nonsense. What do you think you're accomplishing with your trite nonsense in these DoWs?
[/quote]

I kind of agree that he did. He never admitted it and he's never even been willing to talk about it (not that I tried much. Really, he's always been just infuriating to talk to.) but I think that once Grub saw that you guys were willing to do this, he decided to grab the bull by the horns and try to make sure you got taken out. I can't prove this, and it's all really just conjecture, but out of the possibilities, it makes the most sense.

Edited by pezstar
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[quote name='grahamkeatley' timestamp='1322306509' post='2852321']
This is exactly how I see it. And exactly how I explain it when the topic ever comes up. I was almost equally as annoyed at the time with the tactics TOP seemed determined to follow in where to deploy as the resulting NpO withdrawal. Neither alliance acted in a way that would of benefited the general war effort. Both of the alliances despite having many allies and indirect allies involved acted selfishly and for their own ends. I dont think I could trust either alliance leadership to act in the best interest of anything but themselves ever again and am quite pleased that they will now punch each other a few times.

GK
[/quote]
Aye, they deserve each other.

/me grabs the popcorn

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[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1322302481' post='2852265']
TOP stepped on a land mine in Bipolar when it attacked CnG and I've always regarded that DoW as colossally stupid and unmerited. CnG may well have been preparing to attack TOP or it's then allies (I can't read their minds) and TOP may have though it was helping NpO (can't read their minds eirher) but the fact remains that at the time, the attack was aggressive and not related to any overt action by CnG. I was in one of the coordination channels at the time and TOP's move was seen by many there as an unnecessary mistake that would drag us all to our dooms.

I have to say that I personally agree with Polar in this. I don't really think TOP has a legitimate reason to blame NpO for i's foible. Additonally, Bipolar was two years ago and TOP should have either hit Polar long ago or dropped it.

And yes, I know you disagree with me so let's just agree to not agree and leave it at that.
[/quote]


Please feel free to defend Polar. PLEASE. It would make me very happy.

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[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1322302481' post='2852265']
TOP stepped on a land mine in Bipolar when it attacked CnG and I've always regarded that DoW as colossally stupid and unmerited. CnG may well have been preparing to attack TOP or it's then allies (I can't read their minds) and TOP may have though it was helping NpO (can't read their minds eirher) but the fact remains that at the time, the attack was aggressive and not related to any overt action by CnG. I was in one of the coordination channels at the time and TOP's move was seen by many there as an unnecessary mistake that would drag us all to our dooms.

I have to say that I personally agree with Polar in this. I don't really think TOP has a legitimate reason to blame NpO for i's foible. Additonally, Bipolar was two years ago and TOP should have either hit Polar long ago or dropped it.

And yes, I know you disagree with me so let's just agree to not agree and leave it at that.
[/quote]
A lie by omission is still a lie. The fact that we hit C&G as part of an overall plan to gain an advantage in a losing war, only to be immediately left by NpO, and then declared upon by them...combine that with the fact we have said since this happened we would come for our revenge one day. Well, ok, let's agree to disagree.




[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1322313233' post='2852389']
I agree with you more often than not, Schatt, but in this case, not so much. As someone who was there for all of this, I agree that TOP and IRON were screwed over by Polaris in this war, as were many other alliances, STA included. It took a long, long time for us to work through our differences with Polaris over Bipolar.

I agree that this war has been a long time coming, and is deserved. I will fight because Polaris is STA's ally, and because war is fun. I don't, however, think this CB is spurious or contrived. From the minute Bipolar ended, TOP has said "We're coming for you. Expect us." They've come, and it's on. I wish everyone good luck, and a good war.
[/quote]

What did you do with Pez?!! Wow, refreshing honesty.


[quote name='LordBucks' timestamp='1322322255' post='2852501']
Well, this should be fun. Congrats on finally finding you balls TOP, why do they disappear every so often anyway?
[/quote]
I believe they were stuck down a facial orifice, one that belongs to your alliance. No worries, we have moved them from your chin to that of the NpO. That is why you see them again.

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[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1322324751' post='2852562']
C&G would have more likely than not entered the war. It was contained because both sides weren't sure who had the upper hand. We, along several others, figured we were outnumbered in virtually all categories but could perhaps pull a victory by striking first and on our terms. Had we wanted to [i]get back at someone[/i], we would have only attacked MK. In hindsight, that could have been a better move, even strategically. The rest of C&G weren't really provoking us publicly so we had no reason to attack them, other than strategical ones.
[/quote]

Attacking just MK preemptively would have made very little difference one way or the other. The correct move for TOP was to simply honor your treaties without the preemption and the vitriolic comments in the DoW that enabled the political support to both allow you to be defeated and then to have massive reps imposed on you. Much of your ingame advantage to striking first was negated by strategic peacemoding. I know I had nearly our (Athens) entire top 40 sitting in peacemode right before TOP attacked (I'd put them in several days before so we could come out right after you or whoever else attacked. We knew that our side was at a large disadvantage in the upper tiers in general in that war because of TOP's presence on the other side). The fact that MK didn't do the same I attributed to a combination of a desire to draw TOP into the madness you guys pursued, confidence in the ability of MK's upper tier to all be on at update to fight back effectively against the blitz, and sheer bravado.

At the end of the day, if you'd just calmly honored treaties, you would have probably come out way ahead.

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[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1322302017' post='2852254']
We never planned on declaring three days ago. Seems someone has gotten bad info.


Two years ago we had just finished fighting 23 alliances and we're currently paying our reparations. Kinda difficult to attack anyone under such circumstances.
[/quote]

No, my King. CNtel is the greatest intelligence agency ever. I mean, they broke the MK-TOP relationship issues story!

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