Official announcement from the Legion

[GoddessOfLinn]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1319978363' post='2834977']
Not us. It's our duty to ensure that violations against us are properly addressed. We will fight until that happens.

If you think a simple admission of defeat is bad, you need to look at historical reps levied against those who have done this sort of thing before.
[/quote]

He only need to look at the terms NSO accepted after the 6 Million Dollar War. Thoose was fair terms and we ask for much less.

[quote]The New Sith Order hereby announces its surrender to the forces of The Empire of the New Evolution, Ragnarok, the Viridian Entente, the Global Order of Darkness and R&R.
We acknowledge that we knowingly accepted a rogue involved in two offensive wars with TENE an alliance under the protection of Ragnarok.
We acknowledge that threatening The Empire of the New Evolution when they desired to defend their alliance from unwarranted attacks by an unaligned nation was wrong,
and was an aggressive and interventionist action.
We further acknowledge that Ragnarok made clear their position and that we knowingly crossed the line they had set down, and they acted in full accordance with their duty to protect their charge.
We concede that our actions constituted a deliberate provocation, and that we were aware of what the result would be by aiding the rogue nation in question.
+ a beer review[/quote]

Edited October 30, 2011 by GoddessOfLinn

[Vladisvok Destino]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1319980775' post='2834987']
Would white peace really hurt you that bad?
is it a pride thing or is it just that legion hasnt won to many wars in the past...
[/quote]

Would surrender really hurt NSO that bad?
Is it a pride thing because NSO has lost so many wars in the past...

I know RoK were allowed to get away with throwing their toys out the pram and then getting the word "surrender" removed, but not everyone is as generous as Poison Clan (never thought I'd get a chance to say that )

Edited October 30, 2011 by Vladisvok Destino

[Lord Boris]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1319981761' post='2834998']
lol i spelt it that way because someone else was Gallifrey at the time same in TE

also i think NSO and Tetris have fought hard enough to deserve white peace...i mean just compare the NS this was not the "even war" people like to believe it is.
[/quote]

Fighting hard does not immediately entitle someone to white peace. It simply means they managed to do more damage to their enemy in the fighting than if they had just half-assed it. With all the posturing NSO and Tetris did towards Legion in the months leading up to it, I'm actually quite pleasantly surprised that now that they have NSO pretty much where they want them that they are even making peace an option yet.

[Garion]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1319984328' post='2835012']
If you saw your friend walking down the hallway and sudenly this big dude starts whaling on him...you know he talked smack but your not gonna let him get his a.. beat your gonna jump into that fight and your not gonna let him seem like a b.... in the end.Same concept.
[/quote]

I find it difficult to apply this metaphor to the current situation.

[Groucho Marx]

If Legion isn't going to ask for punitive reparations then why bother to offer Tetris and NSO a chance to surrender?

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1319983247' post='2835004']
I get that you are in RoK and you want your allies out of this war but in no way does Tetris nor NSO deserve white peace at all. Both have spent months belittling Legion and attempting to bait them into war. NSO made the claim just after this war started that Legion refused to fight NSO, when NSO [i]actually[/i] spied on Legion due to Legion being too scared.
[/quote]

Have we really gotten to the point to say that "being mean" is a reason to treat an alliance differently at the end of a war?

And if you believe that Varianz actually spied on Legion you're a fool. Those SS's were floating around far before Varianz showed them to Tetris.

[GoddessOfLinn]

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1319989443' post='2835044']
Have we really gotten to the point to say that "being mean" is a reason to treat an alliance differently at the end of a war?

And if you believe that Varianz actually spied on Legion you're a fool. Those SS's were floating around far before Varianz showed them to Tetris.
[/quote]

Please (re)read this post: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106320&view=findpost&p=2834931

You will find that atleast not all SS could have been floating around for far before Varianz showed them to Tetris.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1319989443' post='2835044']
Have we really gotten to the point to say that "being mean" is a reason to treat an alliance differently at the end of a war?

And if you believe that Varianz actually spied on Legion you're a fool. Those SS's were floating around far before Varianz showed them to Tetris.
[/quote]

You are talking about the current situation with Hereno, then you are a fool who obviously misread what I stated. NSO had several months ago actually spied Legion nations (iirc) and posted warchest info on the CN forums. NSO was actively trying to bait Legion into a war. This situation I could care less about the whys than I do about what is actually going on.

As for "being mean", actively trying to bait an alliance into war is beyond being mean mate. Legion finally bit down knowing NSO would come in. So Legion was able to kill 2 birds with 1 stone (not literally kill people, just using the phrase to signify getting both alliances in a war).

Now, if simply "not liking" an alliance is an legitimate reason for going to war, then "being mean" is a legit reason to ensure the alliance that was "mean" is forced to admit defeat. The terms offered are far more lenient than in other situations where "Terms are offered, does not matter how horrible they are, it is the loser's fault for continuing the war" type crap we see all over these forums.

So please do not call me a fool when it appears I am quite knowledgeable about what is going on Wu. I honestly thought you were better than that.

[Regent Pancras]

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1319989443' post='2835044']
Those SS's were floating around far before Varianz showed them to Tetris.
[/quote]
Were they? Can you actually substantiate that claim, or are you falling for RV's lies that they had been in circulation for months? If so I refer you to my earlier post which clears these lies from facts:
[quote name='RegentPancras' timestamp='1319960529' post='2834931']
Shall we check the 'facts' again, before they are accepted by all as 'facts'

This is one of the spied posts which Hereno placed on this site on September 24th 8.38pm (according to the timestamp in my time zone):

It was posted by Kivan on The Legion's website as the post shows on 20th September 4.36pm, which is four days, four hour and four minutes earlier. So how had this been circulating "for many months"? The 'facts' simply do not support your lies. There is no evidence to back up your claim that they had been 'circulating' anywhere except on our private forums.[/quote]
But I will repeat for you again as you are missing the point. We didn't go to war with Tetris for spying, we went to war because they had attacked our sovereignty by blatantly and knowingly re-posting spied material on these forums. As I said earlier, that Varianz has admitted to being complicit in this spying pleases us greatly because this justifies our continued war with NSO, while on the other hand we had no real issue with NsO, IAA and BTA who entered under treaty obligation.

As I said in that post, the position of The Legion government remains the same. We have made our point, and we are happy to end the war as soon as Tetris/NSO ask us to by surrendering. We seek no reps, apologies or anything else from them, which by most standards is very reasonable. If however Tetris wish to remain at war, they might have the decency to order the ~40% of nations which are in peace mode to engage with us, so we can continue this properly.

The decision rests with NSO and Tetris.

[Timeline]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1319955241' post='2834910']
No, they're not about to win. There are three ways that this can go from here:

1) Legion, or the people backing Legion, can see sense and agree to the more than reasonable offer we've repeatedly made to them and end the war now.
2) Legion can continue to act obstinate and we can continue to be indulgent of said obstinance and allow the war to continue as an even fight, needlessly losing more damage in the process.
3) Legion can continue to act obstinate and we can decide that enough is enough and bring about an end to the war through other means.

Legion still has the opportunity today to walk away from this having earned some respect from a lot of people, including people in Tetris and the NSO, without needlessly causing themselves more damage. But not to "win."
[/quote]

1) the only reasonable offer is NSO admit they lost and move on.
2) Legion keeps beating the hell out of NSO.
3) NSO admits defeat by calling in allies to a win a war they have already lost.

Bravo Heft you have highlighted everything NSO.

[Lenny N Karl]

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1319991773' post='2835060']

3) NSO admits defeat by calling in allies to a win a war they have already lost.

[/quote]

I'd have to agree with this one if that happened. up to now both sides have been giving it their best.

The statement for this war has been made. wrap it people and reload for the next debacle coming down the road.

[Rebel Virginia]

[color="#0000FF"]I do not know where the idea that Legion has won this war has come from. NSO is far from defeated.[/color]

[Lusitan]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1319894705' post='2834407']
The fact they attacked a much larger alliance alone in defense of an ally and have stayed the course should tell you all you need to know. In fact you really could learn a thing or two from them.
[/quote]

Many things can be learned in this war, but not even one of the good ones comes from NSO.

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1319990212' post='2835053']
You are talking about the current situation with Hereno, then you are a fool who obviously misread what I stated. NSO had several months ago actually spied Legion nations (iirc) and posted warchest info on the CN forums. NSO was actively trying to bait Legion into a war. This situation I could care less about the whys than I do about what is actually going on.

As for "being mean", actively trying to bait an alliance into war is beyond being mean mate. Legion finally bit down knowing NSO would come in. So Legion was able to kill 2 birds with 1 stone (not literally kill people, just using the phrase to signify getting both alliances in a war).

Now, if simply "not liking" an alliance is an legitimate reason for going to war, then "being mean" is a legit reason to ensure the alliance that was "mean" is forced to admit defeat. The terms offered are far more lenient than in other situations where "Terms are offered, does not matter how horrible they are, it is the loser's fault for continuing the war" type crap we see all over these forums.

So please do not call me a fool when it appears I am quite knowledgeable about what is going on Wu. I honestly thought you were better than that.
[/quote]

Yes, shame on me for assuming the reasons Legion went to war were the reasons they presented in their DoW. If it were really about Varianz spying on them IG, why didn't Legion declare war on NSO. And why did it take so long?

Also, to the others: Can you confirm that that info was supplied by Varianz, and not someone else? Can you confirm Varianz is the one that spied that information off Legion's forums?

This war is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen in my time on CN. You could have ended it, and walked away with your head held high, and yet your obsession with petty posturing and the wordings of technicalities is why you're still fighting. I was completely content with letting you guys slap each other as long as everyone got their fill, hell, I supported Legion in the initial DoW. But to carry this on because "NSO was mean to us" is completely ridiculous and foolhardy. However, do not assume I am the biased preacher, because I believe NSO had the same power to end the war... even though Legion's government tripped over themselves disagreeing with the context of the surrender and the terms being offered. I think NSO could have admitted defeat, and this would be over, I have already addressed them on the absurdity of refusing (you can ask Varianz to confirm, if you do not believe me).

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1319992945' post='2835068']
[color="#0000FF"]I do not know where the idea that Legion has won this war has come from. NSO is far from defeated.[/color]
[/quote]
Then why are so many people getting upset that Legion is going to ask NSO to admit defeat before you all get peace?

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1319993390' post='2835072']
Then why are so many people getting upset that Legion is going to ask NSO to admit defeat before you all get peace?
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I am unaware of what you speak. I assure you that I have no intention of ending this war anytime soon. It will continue until all of Legion is gone. There will be no peace for any member of the Legion.[/color]

[kolsara]

[
[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1319993311' post='2835071']
Yes, shame on me for assuming the reasons Legion went to war were the reasons they presented in their DoW. If it were really about Varianz spying on them IG, why didn't Legion declare war on NSO. And why did it take so long?

Also, to the others: Can you confirm that that info was supplied by Varianz, and not someone else? Can you confirm Varianz is the one that spied that information off Legion's forums?

This war is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen in my time on CN. You could have ended it, and walked away with your head held high, and yet your obsession with petty posturing and the wordings of technicalities is why you're still fighting. I was completely content with letting you guys slap each other as long as everyone got their fill, hell, I supported Legion in the initial DoW. But to carry this on because "NSO was mean to us" is completely ridiculous and foolhardy. However, do not assume I am the biased preacher, because I believe NSO had the same power to end the war... even though Legion's government tripped over themselves disagreeing with the context of the surrender and the terms being offered. I think NSO could have admitted defeat, and this would be over, I have already addressed them on the absurdity of refusing (you can ask Varianz to confirm, if you do not believe me).
[/quote]

We did go to war with tetris for the reasons in our DOW, posting images lifted from our private forums. We didn't declare on NSO as we had no proof at the time of var spying however we did have proof of tetris posting the images to the world stage.

Edited October 30, 2011 by kolsara

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='kolsara' timestamp='1319994210' post='2835075']
We did go to war with tetris for the reasons in our DOW, posting images lifted from our private forums. We didn't declare on NSO as we had no proof at the time of var spying however we did have proof of tetris posting the images to the world stage.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]So you attacked Tetris for posting information that was already available? Explain to me how this is spying.[/color]

[Krunk the Great]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1319983247' post='2835004']
MOMMY NSO AND TETRIS SAID MEAN THINGS
[/quote]

We're proud of Legion for dealing with it like a child a few years older, now we're asking them to grow up a bit more.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1319993311' post='2835071']
Yes, shame on me for assuming the reasons Legion went to war were the reasons they presented in their DoW. If it were really about Varianz spying on them IG, why didn't Legion declare war on NSO. And why did it take so long?
[/quote]

Except for the simple fact that you called me a fool for something I never stated or came anywhere remotely close to claiming. So yes, shame on you. I do not care why Legion declared on Tetris as I was speaking about NSO and not Tetris. Next time, it would do you well to make sure you understand something before you call someone else a fool.

As for why Legion did not DoW NSO for spying on then IG, no clue, nor do I care. I simply stated that Legion has a legitimate reason for continuing to keep NSO at war and for asking for the admission of defeat as a surrender term.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1319994909' post='2835082']
[color="#0000FF"]So you attacked Tetris for posting information that was already available? Explain to me how this is spying.[/color]
[/quote]

Explain to everyone how it was readily available please? Particularly given that it was already found out to be a lie that all of this info was circulating for months. If you don't, then please just shut your mouth about asking others to explain why it is spying. Because if you are unwilling to explain your side, then you have no right to demand others explain their side.

[Regent Pancras]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1319994909' post='2835082']
[color="#0000FF"]So you attacked Tetris for posting information that was already available?[/color]
[/quote]
...Conveniently ignoring the evidence that I have already posted which proves this is not the case.

Keep taking your tablets RV.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Krunk the Great' timestamp='1319995240' post='2835087']
We're proud of Legion for dealing with it like a child a few years older, now we're asking them to grow up a bit more.
[/quote]

Heh. All I got from that was that you yourself are dealing with it like a petulant child. Next time, don't try and act cute with rephrasing what I stated since it was nothing of the sort. It was actually Wu who brought in NSO "being mean". I stated NSO was belittling and attempting to bait Legion into a war for months now.

So, how about you grow up a bit more first, before you ask others to do the same.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Krunk the Great' timestamp='1319851406' post='2834135']
One [b]member [/b]posted images from an unknown and unverified source in public that contained no sensitive information. The alliance then proceeded to NOT throw him under the bus and refused to be bullied by Legion.

Refusing to be bullied is a clear cut CB? Unless you want to actually admit the CB was "We're butthurt and we're tired of continuously being made fools of" of course.

Legion should have instead rooted out the real spy before he had a chance to get any information that would actually tell the world something they didn't already know.
[/quote]

Bolded because it wasn't a member, it was their leader at the time iirc.

They then let said "member" back into the alliance.


[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1319871892' post='2834323']
I, for one, am looking forward to near future when the Legion reflects with satisfaction on how it made these three alliances surrender, and then were utterly destroyed down the road by "those damn Sith Cowards". I truly am.
[/quote]

I find it hard to believe we will be "utterly destroyed" since moo-cows isn't involved (see what I did there ?? )

Seriously though, I think a PR victory may be possible (the odds might not be good) for NSO but its very hard for me to believe that you guys will destroy us down the road (in this war at least). Words will only take you so far.

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1319903952' post='2834474']
If Varianz is responsible for the screenshots, why did Legion declare on Tetris instead of NSO?

I don't follow.
[/quote]

As pointed out in this thread, it wasn't known that Varianz supplied the screenshots until well into the war (12 days iirc). The only thing that changed due to this new fact was that NSO would not be given white peace like IAA/BTA/NsO, instead they would have to also admit surrendering (implying that they understand spying is wrong).

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1319905610' post='2834493']
I don't think I've ever supported attacks on alliances over actions that happend in the past or that a new government wanted to fix without war.
[/quote]

They let said member back into the alliance though.

[quote name='dane0' timestamp='1319925055' post='2834710']
Also, everyone seems to forget that Legion has never DoW'd on NSO this war. They declared on us. So the idea of us surrendering, and leaving NSO out there is ridiculous. We were declared on, they defended us. Why in the world would we leave them.
[/quote]

While I believe everything you say is honorable (as you & your alliance has been throughout this conflict), I would like to point out that NSO is keeping you in this conflict by not accepting terms, not the other way around. Leaving an alliance on the battlefield implies that the stronger is leaving the weaker in an unfavorable situation for their own gain (peace/exit from war). In this situation NSO is keeping Tetris in the war (by not accepting peace) for their own personal gain (PR/spin/etc).

[quote name='Ridin High' timestamp='1319933864' post='2834762']
To those asking what we think of this, here is our answer. From the start of the war we have held the line that our allies have their own sovereignty, and thus can make their own decisions when it come to peacing out of the conflict. In fact, I believe this had come up a week or two ago, when Legion's representative tried to accuse us of keeping our allies in a war of this nature and I gave the same answer.[/quote]

While I wasn't there I imagine that the legion rep was targetting that comment at NSO.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1319935923' post='2834776']
[color="#0000FF"]There is indeed a large "useless element," as you call it. About 50 of Legion's nations (many of them quite large) have not fought at all in this war.[/color]
[/quote]

No targets.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1319993311' post='2835071']
Yes, shame on me for assuming the reasons Legion went to war were the reasons they presented in their DoW. If it were really about Varianz spying on them IG, why didn't Legion declare war on NSO. And why did it take so long? [/quote]

It wasn't known that Varianz did it until 2 weeks into this war.

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1319993311' post='2835071']Also, to the others: Can you confirm that that info was supplied by Varianz, and not someone else? Can you confirm Varianz is the one that spied that information off Legion's forums?[/quote]

Yeah, click [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106028&st=480&p=2825543&#entry2825543]here[/url] for proof. Note that when he was asked for proof that "two high ranking" legion guys knew about it, he avoided the question.

[quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1319993311' post='2835071']
This war is by far one of the dumbest things I've seen in my time on CN. You could have ended it, and walked away with your head held high, and yet your obsession with petty posturing and the wordings of technicalities is why you're still fighting. I was completely content with letting you guys slap each other as long as everyone got their fill, hell, I supported Legion in the initial DoW. But to carry this on because "NSO was mean to us" is completely ridiculous and foolhardy.[/quote]

You do realize that all NSO has to do is accept the terms right? We're not forcing them to stay because they were 'mean to us' .. though that does fuel the membership to continue the onslaught.

[quote]However, do not assume I am the biased preacher, because I believe NSO had the same power to end the war... even though Legion's government tripped over themselves disagreeing with the context of the surrender and the terms being offered. I think NSO could have admitted defeat, and this would be over, I have already addressed them on the absurdity of refusing (you can ask Varianz to confirm, if you do not believe me).[/quote]

I think you may have more knowledge of surrender proceedings than I, so excuse my previous comment if I'm overlooking something.

EDIT:


[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1319993931' post='2835074']
[color="#0000FF"]I am unaware of what you speak. I assure you that I have no intention of ending this war anytime soon. It will continue until all of Legion is gone. There will be no peace for any member of the Legion.[/color]
[/quote]

Then why do you guys send us those cute individual surrender messages oh True Emperor of the Sith?

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1319994909' post='2835082']
[color="#0000FF"]So you attacked Tetris for posting information that was already available? Explain to me how this is spying.[/color]
[/quote]

When did we calling it spying? After finding out that the SSs were supplied by varianz it was clear that tetris didn't do the spying, which is why the declaration of war clearly stated it was declared for posting screen shots. Not necessarily taking them.

Also, it wasn't readily available, as shown by the timestamp on the screenshots. Tetris posted it 4 days, 4 hours and 4 minutes after the SS was taken, and not many people

Edited October 30, 2011 by Unknown Smurf

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1319995293' post='2835088']
Except for the simple fact that you called me a fool for something I never stated or came anywhere remotely close to claiming. So yes, shame on you. I do not care why Legion declared on Tetris as I was speaking about NSO and not Tetris. Next time, it would do you well to make sure you understand something before you call someone else a fool.

As for why Legion did not DoW NSO for spying on then IG, no clue, nor do I care. I simply stated that Legion has a legitimate reason for continuing to keep NSO at war and for asking for the admission of defeat as a surrender term.
[/quote]

No, I implied we were arguing about the cases actually presented as the reasons for the war. That's my bad, I sincerely apologize.

Except that reason doesn't match up. They didn't see it as an act of war before, but now see it as a reason to continue one that is completely different. Not that that's the most retarded rational I've ever heard... just sayin.