TheBFG

[quote name='Count Rupert' date='14 February 2010 - 03:25 PM' timestamp='1266161142' post='2180801'] Again, NOT as a first wonder which was the orginal question. The fact of the matter is economically, the SM WILL outperform the SSS until the point that average gross citizen reaches $300. Only then will the SSS outperform the SM. It's not possible for a nation without any wonders to have an income that high. There are 35 happiness points available from improvements. Income from resource builds maxs out at around $46.50 for the best of them. There is an assortment of other happiness points available if maxed bring another 11 happiness. All this when modified (assuming the nation has all the economic improvements)is going to give you a gross income of around $287.38, meaning the SM is marginally more profitable than the SSS for $10 million less. Simply put economically the SM is THE best first wonder. It's cheaper allowing you to start your wonder clock earlier than the SSS. It will actually even outperform the SSS meaning you lose nothing by buying the SM first and the SSS second and actually make more. Fact is, the SM gives the income necessary in most cases to make the SSS more profitable than buying one of the other +5 happiness wonders as a second wonder which is why guides list the SM first and SSS as the second wonder to buy. [/quote] This is an age old discussion, and Count Rupert has always been correct in these discussions - when he speaks everybody else should just say "thank you", and nothing else :-). This isn't even worthy of a discussion, the SM is THE best first economic wonder. For the unbelievers lets do the math one more time: SSS increases your income by 7.14%, SM increases your gross per-citizen income by $20.76 (including income modifying Improvements, which should all be in place already when somebody is buying a wonder). Simple math shows that the break even point between these is at $290.75 ($20.76/0.0714). If your citizens earn less than this, than the SM simply gives you a higher income increase. Because it is also cheaper it is then a automatic first choice !! Now, if your gross per citizen income is higher than $290.75, then indeed the SSS will increase your income more and further discussion is needed to identify the best choice. As Count Rupert has shown, it actually not even possible for somebody buying their first Wonder to get to under normal circumstances. However, even if for some reason (like some lucky Events) someone manages to get over this threshold, then my calcs in the following old threat still show that for most people the fact that you can buy a SM sooner (since it is cheaper) than a SSS makes enough difference for this still to be the first in line, even in those rare cases: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=13567&view=findpost&p=369101 edit: added a few words to make sentences clearer

My youngest trade is at 466 days. The other 4 are all in the 660-670 range. Got a good circle going for almost 2 years, only 1 replacement needed in that time.

Can't remember the exact moment, but I kept selling until quite late on. I think I decided to stop when the profits were getting quite insignificant compared to my other income (can't remember exactly when I thought that moment had arrived, I guess everybody makes up their mind in a different way)

When it was time for my War Memorial (and phillip110 is right, it should certainly not be on Chintan's agenda at the moment), this is exactly what I did. Just went unalligned for a week, was raided a few times, and came out with 92,713 heroes that I raised a very nice memorial to.

King Irwin is correct. Assuming you have all the improvements that adjust income, then the +$10 in "base income" will have meant an increase in actual per citizen income increase of $20.71. So with a 30% tax rate your income will have increased by $6.21 per citizen, which seems to be what you're reporting - so everything looks to be fine.

First 6 months of my nation were in NADC (Dec 2006 - June 2007). Best start I could have wished for: Great starter guides (ok, they turned out to be stolen), great leader (ok, Charles seems to also have had issues), and great members (ok, Belmont just called himself out... :-) ) Still, I'd do it all again - I think... :-)

Correct, you can use the spreadsheet infra jump calculator from the public Nation Building Guide (http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=843), section V (Infrastructure), subsection C (Infra Jumps) for this as well. You can see the extra net income of every 10 levels of Infra on here. Once that starts to come down at a point where there isn't a infrajump, you know you've reached the optimum amount of Infra for your current circumstances. You would have to have a very poor tradeset (or not enough Wonders/Land), for this to be a long way below 19K infra though, so the OP has some way to go yet :-).

playground bullying or extortion are alternative (and more descriptive) names for it. Don't fall for the propaganda, it is bad.

My goal is to reach the objectives I've set.

Actually, this isn't true - they take place at the exact number. However - for different people it might *look* different due to rounding. Infra is stored to more than the 2 decimal digits you see on the screen, and this rounding can make it look like the change happens at x.01 instead of 0.00 For example: Nation1 has 7,999.992 infra, this is displayed as "7,999.99". When they buy 0.01 they will have 8,000.002 (displayed as 8,000.00) and have gone over 8K and have therefore reached "the jump" at what looks like 8K exactly. Nation2 has 7,999.998 infra, this is displayed as "8,000.00", however in reality they are not over 8K yet so they haven't yet reached the jump. Therefore this nation will not have reached the jump yet, and after they buy another 0.01 they reach it at what looks like 8,000.01. When you reach a jump it is easy to work out in which of the catergories your nation is, just stop at x,999.99, buy 0.01 - if you've reached the jump you're a "nation1"-type. If you haven't jumped then buy another 0.01 and confirm you're a "nation2"-type. You can buy or sell a one-off 0.005 infra to switch between types if you wish.

The Nation Building Guide on the forums has links to a couple of infra calculators: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=843

I've arrived at 15K, I've done some calcs, and I'm happy to share my data: Upkeep jump is pretty small: it goes to 0.1755 X Infra Level + 20 (notice the factor goes up from .175 to .1755) Purchase price goes to 80 X Infra Level + 500 (up from 70) If anybody else could confirm that would be nice, although I'm pretty sure of my numbers.

I don't understand where the 36K infra comes from?

I don't think there was much whining about never having events. There was discussion that it was unlikely to be 10% in the past, but not many people actually complained about that. Even if you don't collect/pay bills often, the OP is still right that these changes bring far to much luck into the game.

Looking to buy a April & May $20 donation. Can accept a deal for both, or just for the April one. PM me in-game with your price.