Grealind

You get how this makes you sounds like a controlling and immovable dictator right?

If your goal is peace, then stop with the posturing and go seek out peace.

Regarding point 5 (the second point 5): Immortan, I hereby sentence you to some random sentence for an indeterminate amount of time because I don't like the way you included Atlas in your original OP. I am not claiming I have sovereignty over your alliance, or even you for that matter. I am however saying that I'm holding you responsible for something, and will to the best of my ability hold you to whatever I decided to sentence you to. So what if Sephiroth wants to do something different that other larger alliances aren't doing? It's his prerogative as the leader of his alliance. As far as the Senate goes, if you have that much of an issue with him having a Senate seat, then get your members to vote him out. If your members alone, and I think you have 60 or so right, are unable to do so, then reach out to your fellow brown alliances, including the smaller brown alliances, and try to convince them to support a second candidate from SNX, or from another Brown alliance. If that isn't an option, then try recruiting more members to Brown and to your alliance, and then try pushing him out of the Senate by voting. Obviously there are enough Brown members who believe that Sephiroth has their best interests at heart if he keeps getting the Senate seat. On a related note, he has on several occasions called for Brown unity, while through this thread you are calling for the exact opposite. Perhaps instead of calling him out on all the differences the two of you have, maybe grab some olive garden and find some common ground. edit: follow up, if you polled your entire alliance and asked them if they would rather burn through their resources fighting or would instead prefer to try bridge building and relationship mending, how many would really rather burn their nations to the ground?

You want to discuss logic from the OP? Alrighty, let's do this! That alliance members are free to leave during peacetime (assuming no debts). Conditionally, and I get back to this in a moment. That alliance sovereigns coordinate to sanction rogues across color teams. You are bitter because Sephiroth managed to do this more successfully than you. That alliance members cede diplomatic and military authority to the alliance sovereign. You realize this is not the "norm" in every alliance, right? While it may be the norm in alliances that you've interacted with, for the most part, it's obviously not an obligatory style of alliance structure. You are attempting to enforce this very narrow mold onto another alliance, in an effort to while not necessarily coup them, enforce a certain measure of your will onto them. You talk about sovereignty, yet by this very thread, you seek to breach the sovereignty of another alliance. That raiding of non-aligned nations should be restrained in nature. Why? If you are dumb enough not to join an alliance, then your money, your technology, your infrastructure and land, is free for the taking and the burning. Once again, you are attempting to exert a level of control over another alliance. That alliance sovereigns do not claim jurisdiction over other alliances. Yet you breach the very sovereignty that you claim to hold so dear, straight in points 3 and 4. Sephiroth has claimed that leaving LPCN is "treason." I agree, to a certain extent. Think about it like this: in some alliances you have to swear a measure of loyalty to the alliance and its leaders, right? I remember when I was in Ragnarok I had to swear an oath to the Empress. Other alliances have something like that. Let me take a look at SNX's admissions form. Oh! What do we have here? Your own alliance would call a member's departure treasonous unless they follow your very specific requirements for departure. How are you, therefore, able to claim that you are any different? Sephiroth started sanction wars to protect rogues sanctioned by other color teams. Which, per point 2 of your first list, he was well within his rights to do. Sephiroth allows his members to threaten individual wars against other alliances. Okay, so what's your point? That his members have a greater degree of individual sovereignty than your members? Animalz has pursued PZI against new nations that fight back against raids. See my italics in point #3. You don't like it, fight a war, get some sanctions going, do something besides complaining. Sephiroth claimed jurisdiction over Supernova X, which resulted in a two month war. Can I ask, where did this jurisdiction come from? Did he offer your alliance terms that you decided weren't in your alliance's best interests? I'm guessing here, since I honestly have no idea on this one. As a matter of SNX and Atlas, if I had my way, your alliance would have been curbstomped over a year ago. You're right, I am definitely government in Atlas. I also hold absolutely no sway when it comes to wars, or treaties for that matter: by personal design. I'll buy tech off anyone who wants to deal with me, I don't discriminate. You have the tech? I have the cash. It's literally that simple. As long as your alliance isn't trying to screw mine over, mazel tov!

Okay now I'm getting a headache here. Please point to me where I claimed sovereignty over your - you call that an alliance? You approached us to arrange something, and we turned you and your ludicrous demands away. Obviously we don't want slaves, we're not plantation holders from the 1700's, after all. Heck, I don't even think I own a wig (wait, yeah I do, but thats for another time). Feels to me like you're attacking anyone who doesn't conform to your very narrow, current ideas on how alliances should operate.

I question the logic in having such standards, get told it's none of my business, so I produce verifiable evidence why it is in fact my business, especially considering I'm Atlas' Acting Finance Chancellor in addition to being our permanent Interior Chancellor. You opened the door when you tried to claim it was "nun-ya." Maybe you shouldn't do that anymore.

It is when you try to get us to agree to the following: And I think it also goes to your motives. It looks to me, and obviously to others as well, that you're actually trying to undermine your alliance. Give me a sec to quote those posts, and then I'll come back and edit this. edit: True the only one I quoted was the focus of your kafkaesque ramblings, but I only scrolled up this one page.

Wow, just wow. Junka, be very, very glad Alexio is the leader of Atlas and not me. If I were leading Atlas, I would treaty Sephiroth and his alliance, and back them up against your stupidity. It's been said before, you have a straight up methboner, and I think you need to just rub it out and get on with the business of destroying your alliance from the inside. Incidentally, explain to me why your foreign tech dealers have to adhere to very nutty demands to tech deal with SNX. I know why, because you're actually working on destroying SNX from the inside out. Alexio said it best, you were just starting to get through the rehab, get clean, and then you relapsed spectacularly.

Also, since you are so terrified of his powers of sanctions, let me put something in perspective for you: SNX sanctioned 2 people in October 2015, at the request of Kashmir Atlas sanctioned 1 person in September 2015, and that person was a rogue Methrage sanctioned 11 people in August 2015, during the Brown Sanction War (cause that's what we're calling it I guess) Tevron (Atlas) 15, Laserwolf (GATO) 1 during the month of August. I really don't want to go back through July, but there was a bunch of FAN v. Methrage stuff going on there.

The following statement is being made by the Interior Chancellor on behalf of myself, and not my alliance (Atlas) and is as such not representative of any policy of or relating to Atlas. Oh my what the everloving $%&@. Junka, I officially hate you right now, since you are making me feel bad for Methrage. Let me be clear, this is a straight up Hate Boner that you have going on, and putting Atlas in your mouth (where it really doesn't belong) is just not appropriate. You have some magical delusions going on right now, and please, pass that !@#$. If you don't want them/him in Senate, then get enough votes together and remove him. Problem solved. But nope, you cant even do that right. Just leave the man alone, and let him get on with his treasonous purging, if that is what he really is doing? Obligatory Hail Alexio, Hail Atlas, Hail Pacifica (because one must always hail our benevolent overlords on Red)

Whoo good stuff

Well hey, yay us!

And we're updated. Weird that not much seems to be going on.

I'm just doing this very short line since I'm skimming. If you want to elaborate a bit feel free.

Hi all; I was actively working on this project until about a year ago when I let it drift. I'm picking back up and wanted to let y'all know about it. It is on the Wikia so if anyone else would like to work on this I'd be more than happy to share! http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/OWFNews Anson Old thread, didn't want to gravedig: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106426