Segovia

About time... And the hamster bit was never agreed upon by Brig gov. FnKA, remember when you attacked Brig for TOOL?

Congrats Adrian.

[quote name='Antonio Salovega VI' date='01 June 2010 - 02:05 AM' timestamp='1275383136' post='2318926'] I think that many are overlooking the fact that the GGA may be making history with this smooth transition in power. I believe that this is a rarity if not a first in the history of the GGA. The GGA and its member nations are to be congratulated! This is progress in deed and in fact. Some of GGA’s recent history is not so worthy of congratulatory comments. A case in point would be the release of several private conversations by a former GGA member. I declare this, not to add to the mountain of disparagement found in this and other GGA announcements but to illustrate an alternative for the GGA to consider. It is a well known general rule that statements made behind closed doors should be kept behind closed doors. However, sometimes private statements manage to escape into the wild. As the GGA has recently experienced, the longer the statements remain in the wild, the more the interest and the recriminations mount. Now is the time for the GGA to do something different - boldly different. Intransigently following the same path blazed by past GGA administrations will only reap continued mirth, ridicule, and derision. I strongly urge the new GGA administration to re-examine the explanatory accounts for the leaked conversations given by the previous GGA administration. Where they fall short, the GGA should provide valid reasons - not half-truths or excuses. GGA should give candid explanations - not self-serving justifications. GGA should offer factual clarifications - not convenient rationalizations. And if apologies are necessary, GGA should make them forthrightly with frankness and sincerity. GGA should remember that it is unbecoming to nuance or half-step this point of honor. It is my honest opinion that if the GGA and its new administration makes a clean and decisive break from the policies and actions of past GGA administrations, that it will find that other alliances (both on and off the green trading sphere) are willing to give the GGA the benefit of the doubt. I encourage the member nations and leadership of the GGA to join the UJA and work with us. Advance your ideas. Share your thoughts. Contribute to the fulfillment of the dreams and aspirations of other Green alliances and you will find that we will return the favor. The converse can only lead the GGA to stagnation and decline. [/quote] Oh, Antonio, how I miss you... You basically said what I wanted to say but in much prettier words.

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='30 May 2010 - 02:10 PM' timestamp='1275253792' post='2317011'] I just briefly have to address that point, being an ex-Grämlin. We were prepped and ready for war, and VE told us not to get ourselves killed because they'd decided to admit defeat. It is not the topic of this thread so if you want to discuss it in more depth, start another one Well, JB has now moved on from GGA, so the rest of the senior figures can now stop following along with his foolishness. Hopefully their goal isn't also to destroy VE [/quote] From what I remember, since I was in the VE at the time, yeah, we were ready for the disbandment. We didn't believe Gramlins would help (as far as the normal members went) but we also knew that it was pointless to involve any one else. Live to fight another day, eh?

Good luck, Dem. Send us a diplomat. I swear you guys always send some of your great members to us, so I hope it continues. It will be nice to rebuild our relations and to see the GGA grow and become a greater alliance.

Welp. This is another situation of 'too little, too late'. Good luck, man. I hope you can pull a miracle out of your donkey. I've seen it happen a couple of times, so hopefully I'll see it happen again.

Welcome to NOIR. Watch out for the Demented one...

Good luck, Starfox. You and I never talked much except in your thread about basic training, where I told you about my experience there. I enjoyed my time through it and I hope you do too. You'll do well and thank you for providing me with much entertainment in my 4 years of playing CN. Take it easy, have as much fun as possible and enjoy your time with your child. Hopefully we'll see you back here at a later time.

[quote name='BloodFury' date='26 May 2010 - 11:26 PM' timestamp='1274941568' post='2313246'] Yes well, she spent Roughly One Month in GPA. She then turned around and spent roughly One Month in the GGA. As for a smaller alliance, Ronin is technically the smaller newer alliance. Where as GGA is an older alliance that has fallen on hard times. Why would you join join two alliances each one for a rough period of a month before jumping ship, and one of those was a second choice to an alliance you would leave them for in the future? There a lot going against her besides the proof that she has leaked information. Some things just don't make sense is all I am saying. And as was eluded to before by a VE member I believe is that they got the information second or third hand. Regardless if they laughed it off or not, it was not directly sent to them. So if her reason was revenge, it wasn't brought directly to VE which would be the normal routes of revenge. [/quote] 1st hand, from what I understand. And there are quite a few people who jump from alliance to alliance, and that doesn't make them a spy. From what I understand, Enyo did quite a bit for the GGA working in the FA dept. Perhaps she is a disgruntled employee?

[quote name='BloodFury' date='26 May 2010 - 10:36 PM' timestamp='1274938550' post='2313207'] I don't know all the going ons in GGA or the world, but what I do know was what they did find was that Enyo leaked information. I had also heard a small rumor that Enyo may or may not have caused problems with the GPA. Again this is something I do not know, or if its factual or not. Prior to Enyo joining the GGA she had applied to Ronin, the alliance she is in now. She was accepted or to be accepted but turned it down to join GGA. Doesn't that raise suspicions even more when you find out that she had leaked information? Why a random jump to another alliance, when she wanted to join Ronin? Those are just some things to think about. But they were obviously concerned that there was an informant inside of the GGA sometime after he arrival into the GGA. You also have to understand that GGA itself is still reforming since JB came back took the reigns of the alliance. He has been trying to rebuild it and redo everything that he has to from the ground up, so some suspicions will arise against anyone at any time if you are worried about your alliance. While it may all of just been short time paranoia it still warranted him to act alone in this matter. [/quote] I've never heard any rumors about the GPA, but that doesn't matter. Back in the day, I was going to join IRON because it looked like a great alliance and went with the VE because I preferred a smaller group and they seemed like a great group. Just because a person changes their mind means nothing.

[quote name='BloodFury' date='26 May 2010 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1274937241' post='2313187'] It has already been pointed out that it was Enyo, it has already been made a clear cut case against her and all evidence ties this directly to her. Do you think an investigation was not done? Also when you believe you have a spy in your midst, you don't exactly tell anyone what your plans are as they could tip off the spy, or tip off who ever the spy is working for. If I ran my own alliance, I would forgive the GGA for their words used in a private government channel regardless of the situation. Somethings are said in anger and some of the others were said to try and root out the spy. If they suspected it would of been from my alliance, I could understand them not telling me about it. [/quote] I apologize, I misread this quote: [quote]That may be so, but I had heard of information being leaked sometime while she was in the alliance a few days after she had left it.[/quote] I read it as there was a leak before she left, and it was her. Was their other info leaked from a spy previous to this? And informing your allies gov that you are cracking down on a spy shouldn't screw with your OPSEC. If they were truly worried about that, then why be allied? And when it concerns another ally, I think it's something that definitely should have been shared.

[quote name='BloodFury' date='26 May 2010 - 10:02 PM' timestamp='1274936521' post='2313176'] That may be so, but I had heard of information being leaked sometime while she was in the alliance a few days after she had left it. Regardless if that information is correct or not it is clearly recognized that the leaking of any information from an alliance is heavily frowned upon and has gotten people put on enemy lists in the past. When you are in an alliance you agree to not share any information that is said, it is common courtesy to extend that respect after you leave. If she didn't do it while she was in the GGA, she still did it regardless and she should be dealt with accordingly as the GGA wishes her to be dealt with. [/quote] So that automatically means Enyo is the spy? Great logic there. Also, when you are allied to an alliance that is also allied to the people you are having bad relations with, it is only common courtesy to inform your allies that you are planting logs that are threatening towards their allies to flush out a spy, just in case those logs get out. I don't really care for surprises like that. (Too many 'allies'... gah)

[quote name='BloodFury' date='26 May 2010 - 09:52 PM' timestamp='1274935919' post='2313160'] I believe Jrenster is correct on this one, he is more or less trying to dispel any thought that there was any hard feelings between GGA and other governments. However I do believe he was trying to prove a point on the fact that information was leaked prior to the member leaving the alliance. I am sure everyone else feels the same taboo on spying, so why should he try not to bring to light that a former member Enyo leaked government information and in a sense spied on the GGA? [/quote] She left and was blacklisted on the 9th. I believe they were leaked on the 17th.

It's too bad that this wasn't passed on to certain parties earlier. And good job on having a 'heated' discussion and managing to keep a frame of mind to plant some tidbits in there all in an effort to catch a spy that turned out not to be a spy and only shared logs after the blacklisting.

Congrats to both the VE and Kronos!