Cyber Nations Forum Rules 07/03/2016Cyber Nations Forum Rules
In the process of registering on this forum, all players--including you--agreed to accept these terms and conditions and the terms and conditions of Invision Power Board. In doing so you essentially signed an electronic contract pledging to have read the rules and TOS and agreeing to follow the rules and TOS as written. It is your continued responsibility to read, follow, and keep up-to-date with the CN rules.
The following are basic guidelines for use of the Cyber Nations community forum. Anyone caught disobeying these guidelines will be issued a warning. The forum staff works on a five warn limit policy unless the situation calls for more appropriate action ranging from a verbal warning to a double warn and suspension to an immediate ban, etc. Just because something is not listed specifically here as illegal does not mean it's allowed. All players are expected to use common sense and are personally responsible for reading the pinned threads found in the Moderation forum. Questions regarding appropriateness or other concerns can be sent via PM to an appropriate moderator. A permanent ban on the forums results in a game ban, and vice versa. Please note that the in-game warn system works on a "three strikes you're out" policy and that in-game actions (including warnings and deletions) may not be appealed. For more information regarding in-game rules please read the Cyber Nations Game Rules. 1.) First Warning
2.) Second Warning
3.) Third Warning (48 hour suspension at the forum)
4.) Fourth Warning (120 hour suspension at the forum)
5.) Permanent Ban Game Bans and Forum Bans
If you receive a 100% warn level on the forums, you will be subject to removal from the forums AND have your nation deleted and banned from the game at moderator(s) discretion. If you are banned in the game, then you will be banned from the forums. Process of Appeals
Players may not appeal any in-game actions. This includes cheat flags, canceled trades, content removals, warn level increases, nation deletion, and bans from the game. Players may appeal individual forum warnings. You may only appeal a warning if you can show with evidence that it was unwarranted or unduly harsh. If a reasonable amount of time has passed (no less than one month and preferably longer) in which you have demonstrated reformed behavior than you may request a warning level reduction. Wasting staff time with inappropriately filed reports and/or unfounded appeals will result in a warn level raise. Repeat incidences will result in a ban from the forum. Bans are permanent. Banned players may appeal to the Senior Staff if they believe grounds exist (very, very rare) in which they state their case with evidence and why explain why they believe they deserve to be allowed back into Cyber Nations. This process is not quick and the investigation into cases may last three minutes or three weeks or more depending on the individual situation. The only place where discussion of moderator action is acceptable is in the appropriate Moderation forum. Posting commentary on or disagreement with moderator action elsewhere will result in a warn level raise. Posting
All posts must be in English. Common phrases in other languages will be allowed so long as they are translated upon request. Foreign languages are permitted in signatures and avatars, however. Certain areas of the forum require you to have a nation in either standard CN or CN:TE. If you have... A SE and a TE nation: You get one forum account. Your forum account name must match your SE nation or ruler name. You are allowed to post in either SE or TE areas of the forum. You must have your CN:TE nation name listed in your profile to post in the CN:TE section of the forum.
Just an SE nation: You get one forum account. Your forum account name must match your SE nation or ruler name. You are not allowed to post in any TE areas of the forum.
Just a TE nation: You get one forum account. Your forum account name must match your TE nation name or ruler name. Your must have your CN:TE nation name listed correctly in your profile. You are not allowed to post in any of the SE areas. You are allowed to post in the water cooler, question center and the moderation forums. Other than that, all your posts need to stay in the TE area. Flame/Flamebait/Trolling
Flaming is expressing anger or lobbing insults at a person/player rather than a character, post, idea, etc. Flamebait are posts that are made with the aim of targeting/harassing/provoking another user into rule-breaking. Trolling is submitting posts with the aim of targeting/harassing/provoking a specific group into rule-breaking. Forum users should not be participating in any of these, and doing so will result in a warning. Topic Hijacking
Hijacking is forcing the current thread discussion off of the original topic and usually results in spam or flame from either side. Forum users found hijacking threads will be given a warning. Repeat Topics
One topic is enough. Repeat topics will be locked, removed, and the author given a warning. Users found creating repeat topics after others were locked by staff will receive a warn raise. Joke Topics
Topics created as a joke are prohibited. Joke topics will be locked and the author warned. This includes topics in which the author is making an announcement “for” another in-game alliance. Humorous threads are permitted; it is up to the discretion of the moderation staff to determine what is merely satire and what is actually a joke topic. Spam
Spam is defined as creating posts or topics containing only contentless material of any kind. Users found spamming will receive a warning. Examples include (but are in no way limited to) posts containing nothing but smilies, "+1", "QFT", "this" any other one/few-word contentless combination, joke threads, or posts containing quotes and anything that counts as spam by itself. Adding words to a post with the express intent of avoiding a spam warn will result in a warning. These posts and other similar contributions have no substance and hence are considered spam. Posts of "Ave", "Hail" or any other one word congratulatory type are acceptable as one word posts. Emoticon type posts such as "o/" without accompanying text is still not allowed. Posts containing only images are considered spam, unless the image is being used in the Alliance Politics sub-forum and then the actual text of the image be placed into spoiler tags. Posting in All Caps
Posting large amounts of text in capital letters is not permitted. Use discretion when using your caps lock key. No Discussion Forums
There are forums that are not for discussion and are used strictly for game and forum staff to address certain issues, bugs, etc. The following forums are not open to discussion: Report Game Abuse, Report Forum Abuse, and Warn/Ban Appeals. Only moderators and the original poster may post in a thread, period, with absolutely no exceptions. Users found disobeying this guideline will receive an automatic warning for each offense. Moderation Forums
All Moderation forums also maintain pinned threads clearly marked as required reading before posting. Failure to read and follow required reading and procedure in a Moderation forum will result in a warning. Examples include posting requests in the wrong forum, failure to include all required information in posts, etc. The standard of conduct and enforcement of rules in Moderation forums is strictly enforced and the repercussions for disregarding rules or disrespecting staff are harsh. Read the pinned threads before posting and you will be fine. Namecalling
Excessive or unqualified namecalling is not allowed in IC forums; namecalling should also never make up the bulk of a post. Namecalling is prohibited entirely in all OOC forums. Filtered Words
Any attempts to evade the word filter will result in a warning. The terms we have filtered are filtered for a reason and no excuse for evasion will be accepted. Filter evasion includes censoring or deliberately misspelling part of a filtered word. If you link to a website, image, video, etc., containing profanity, please post a disclaimer before the link. The moderation staff may still remove links if the content is deemed too obscene. Harassment
Forum users should not be stalking/harassing others on the forums. Anyone found stalking players from topic to topic, etc., will be subject to a warning. Gravedigging
Gravedigging is not allowed anywhere on the forums. Gravedigging is "bumping" old topics which haven't been active for quite some time (four to seven days is standard depending on the nature of the thread and how many pages back it had been pushed before bump). Your warn level will be raised if you are caught doing this. The Suggestion Box and Black Market forums are partial exceptions to this rule. Suggestions/ideas in that forum may be posted in regardless of age PROVIDING that the reviving post contains constructive, on-topic input to the original topic or discussion. Black Market threads may be bumped by the author if there is new information about the offered exchange (i.e open aid slots). In the Player Created Alliances forum it will not be considered gravedigging to bump a topic up to a year old, so long as the alliance in question still exists and it is not a duplicate thread. Signatures
Those who fail to read and abide by these rules will have their signatures removed and receive a warning. You may have only one image per signature which may not exceed the maximum size of 450 pixels wide by 150 pixels tall. You may have no more than 8 lines of text and text size cannot exceed size 4. Each quote-tag, image and empty line count as a line. Inappropriate Images and Other Disallowed Images
Images that are sexual in nature or have sexual overtones are prohibited. It is up to the discretion of the moderation staff to determine what constitutes sexual overtones. Depictions of kissing are permissible provided there are no sexual implications. Images depicting female nipples are prohibited outright. Making “ASCII art” is prohibited regardless of the image depicted. Using photos or likenesses of another Cyber Nations player is also prohibited. Drug References
Images and posts promoting illegal drug use are prohibited. References to drugs are acceptable only if the moderation staff deems that it is not promoting the use thereof. Obscene Content and/or "Account Suicide"
Anyone caught posting vulgar material (including but in no way limited to pornography, "gross," "tubgirl," "lemonparty," photos depicting RL illegal acts such as violence towards humans or animals, child pornography, death photos, and any other obscene or offensive material in either text form or picture form) will have their account(s) permanently banned, and their ISP contacted along with any other applicable internet and RL authorities. OOC Threats / Revealing Personal Information
An OOC threat of any nature will equate to an automatic ban from the game and forums. Likewise, the publishing of personal information of any other player without their explicit permission is grounds for warning and/or a ban from the game depending on the severity of the offense. Death Threats / Death Wishes
A death threat or a death wish of any nature (including but not limited to telling another player to commit suicide) will result in at very least a 40% warn level increase and 2 day suspension from the forums, with harsher punishments, including a complete ban from the forums and game, up to the discretion of the moderation staff. Quoting Rulebreaking Posts
Do not quote any post with obscene content or any other content that has to be removed by the moderation staff. Doing so makes it more difficult for the moderation staff to find and remove all such content and will result in a warn level increase. Putting rulebreaking posts of any kind in your signature is prohibited. Forum Names
With the exception of moderator accounts, all forum accounts must match up exactly with the ruler name or nation name of your in-game country. Those found not matching up will be warned and banned immediately. Forum account names may not be profane or offensive. Multiple Forum Accounts
With the exception of moderators, if you are caught with multiple forum accounts, the multiple account(s) will be banned, warn level raised, and your identity will be announced by a moderator to the CN community so rule-abiding players can take IC action against you. Multiple forum account offenders will receive a varying percentage warn level raise and/or a permanent ban on a case-by-case basis. Posting For Other Players
Posting for banned or suspended players is prohibited, as is posting for any person without a nation. This includes making warn and ban appeals on their behalf. Imitation &. Impersonation
Imitation in terms of this forum is mimicking the posting, avatar, or signature styles of another user in an attempt to be satirical or generally humorous. Impersonation in terms of this forum is copying the posting, avatar, or signature styles of another user in order to present the illusion that the person is in fact that user. Imitation is fine and can be quite funny. Impersonation is disruptive and is warnable. Please pay attention to the subtle difference between these two concepts. A player may not impersonate another player by emulating the characteristics of someone else's past or present account in an attempt to harass, stalk, or flamebait. Creating a new forum account in an attempt to impersonate a standing account will result in deletion and banning without notice. Any attempt at imitation and/or impersonation of moderators and game staff is strictly prohibited and will be met with harsh repercussions. Avatars
Size for avatars is limited by the forum mechanics, therefore there is no size issue for a user to worry about. Avatars must be in good taste, and any avatar containing a picture that is too violent, disgusting, sexually explicit, insulting to another player or staff member, etc. will be removed. Avatars that are potentially seizure inducing will not be permitted. Players may not "borrow" the avatars of any moderator past or present without permission. Swastikas and Nazi Imagery
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[quote name='Captain Nathan Brittles' timestamp='1341287722' post='3002135'] How long ago was the colony purchased? Could it have expired? [/quote] I'm pretty sure it was there when I started moving stuff. Plus, I looked at the purchase time of the two that are still there and I'm pretty sure I bought the colony, in between, which would give it like 60 days left.
[quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299791523' post='2658992'] Quite welcome. I was sure to try and use small words so you could understand them. It seems you could![/quote] Thank you. Hardly, a word over two syllables. I appreciate it. It was very helpful. Thank you for not considering your next or last post when writing each post as well. That also made things easier. [quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299791523' post='2658992']Seems you discussed your displeasure with us at the same time, so there you are. From the discussions I was seeing, I'd been led to believe we [i]did[/i] discuss our displeasure with you. At one point, seems we'd been offered part of that deal as well. [/quote] We did? When? Please, who discussed our displeasure with you to the enemy? Please, give their name. When? You got logs? [quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299791523' post='2658992']Retroactively, yes. But no, you haven't really dealt with it all that well. We had a concern, said we were delaying, you folks seem to have privately flipped the @*%& out, and then they let you off the leash to act the fool. Again I say, if <24 hours is such a problem, then there's a greater issue at stake. Why was it so important for us to go first?[/quote] You don't like how we dealt with it. I get that. But we dealt with it. And we dealt with it to The Brain. We didn't deal with it by going to your enemies nor the OWF. We're just the kind of !@#$%bags to address our concerns with you to you. Sorry we didn't take your approach. We'll try to be more honorable and Brain-y in the future. [quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299791523' post='2658992']Not that you were cancelling, that you did cancel. That you were the ones setting us up, and so on. I'll just be repeating myself over here until you get it.[/quote] It wasn't up for discussion. The things you did were done. We'd have initiated discussions if there were discussions to be had, but after you bad-mouthed us to enemies, and to the world, and failed in so many regards, there wasn't an acceptable explanation. What explanation do you possibly think you could have given that would have changed our minds? That the entire cast of Glee hacked your accounts? [quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299791523' post='2658992']It'll go until it doesn't, Joca. I get that you have a problem with me. I get that you've been rather butthurt by my treatment of you in the time you've been playing. Really, I do. I know it's been awhile since you haven't been butthurt. I was getting worried when I could be arsed to remember. I think it's a good thing that you've found a stable home where you can continue to act the fool at my expense; really it's fine. In the end, what have you really lost? [i]The entire alliance associated with someone you don't like no longer has anything to do with you.[/i] Isn't that fun? Now you don't have to pretend and you can continue to act the fool all you like. In public, even! Now everyone can share the same annoyances I had to when you first got too big for your britches. It'll be great, really. [/quote] Heh, I'm not butthurt about beating you the last time. I like winning. And yes, getting an entire alliance to back down from five nations was winning. Owning you on the OWF was a great time. Getting the nations you asked to attack me to privately declare a ceasefire against your orders was a lot of fun. And in the process I protected every single nation you wanted to attack until all you could do was shake your fist impotently on the OWF. Much like you're doing now. And as you point out, what did it cost me? Nothing. Nothing at all. Since then I went to your own alliance, the alliance you ran, and joined them which again caused you impotently shake your fist in rage. And after all your hand-wringing I ended up bigger, stronger, more respected and with more loyal followers than I would have had absent your little bit of fun. Good times, brother. Seriously, if you're ever in my neck of the woods, let me know. I've got the first round. Bring freelancer with you. We'll all get together and impotently shake our fists as people walking by refuse to do our bidding.
I'd like to personally thank you for this thread, Xiao. As you know, I've always been a fan of your failures on the OWF. As always, you not being able to think a move or two ahead exposes your dishonesty rather quickly. Thanks for that. What we've discovered from this thread is that you actually did intentionally and pointedly put the 40K techno beats term in to protest the reps against an ally. Who did you discuss your displeasure with first? LoSS, an enemy. We've discovered that your barbs aren't just in jest. They were meant to piss us off because you were hoping we'd be pissed enough to use private channels. Why you didn't use private channels in the first place is beyond me, but I've never been one to defend your thought processes in the past. We've discovered that at no time did you try to communicate your actions with us. Only us with you. Yet you're complaint is that we didn't do that enough. Apparently, keeping up our alliance with one another was our responsibility but beneath you. Incidentally, when you didn't show up on time for the war, we did deal with it. We attacked anyway. And when you bailed on the war, we did deal with it, we kept fighting. And when you bagged on us publicly, we did deal with it, we canceled our treaty with you. And guess how you found out we had an issue with all of these things? We communicated privately to you via our treaty cancellation. When you had an issue with reps, you communicated it to LoSS, but not us. When you had an issue with what you suspected was your alliance being set up, you communicated to no one. When you wanted to peace out, you communicated with LoSS, but not us. All of these were initiated by you and not communicated to us. The actions we initiated were communicated to you. That's why you knew we were cancelling our treaty. Hey, keep this thread going though. As usual, you seem to have been totally and utterly blind-side but the natural progression of a thread you started. You must be great at chess.
[quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299783081' post='2658783']Yes, it's clear there has been said problems. As always, if there was ever a problem with us, with the way we handle our foreign policy, with the way we communicate on the Open World Forum, then our forums are right there. A private message is right there. There's been multiple avenues for you to contact us - but you guys gave up after there wasn't anyone on IRC. We heard nothing. [i]Nothing[/i]. But now, [b]now[/b] you guys are talking! Now you're pissed! Now you're [i]honest[/i]. Fantastic. That's a start. We'll see if that continues. [/quote] I love the hypocrisy. Our response to a communication with The Brain was to cancel a treaty with The Brain by sending a message to the Brain. Your response to being upset with CSN was to cancel your DOW without telling CSN, to bagging on us to LoSS, to bag on us publicly in peace terms with LoSS, and then to bag on us publicly in the OWF. Clearly, we're in the wrong there. All of our communication about you was with you. All of your communication about us has been to someone else and, generally, made public by you.
[quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299780982' post='2658741'] Considering CA's own cancellation clause leads to an assumption that 'things will be worked out', color us surprised when our forum masks were removed. Said removal of masks prompted the Mooninites. Said Mooninites engender responses from your allies that suggest that because we didn't play specifically to your tune, we're the antithesis of what you want on Maroon. Oh hey, that rhymed. I do like the hedging on 'may or may not be true', though. That's classy right there. [/quote] The "hedging" is because I'm not actually aware of the truth of it. Neither are you. That's the point. I don't make conclusions absent evidence. It would be nice if we could both say that. I'm going ignore the silliness of a thread where you suggest that you've been ousted from CA, though you left, and that you've been ousted from Maroon when also didn't happened, and then use some people saying good riddance as evidence for your claims. And it is silliness. [quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299780982' post='2658741']The consensus seems to be that we're not wanted on Maroon. Given the size of our alliance compared to the rest of the bloc, I'm expecting war to be declared any day now. Such is the price of 40,000 fresh tehcno beats. [/quote] I love this one, too. Who is threatening war? This is a completely made-up slight against Maroon in an attempt to overshadow your own behavior. The bulk of Maroon hasn't threatened you with war and no one here has suggested it accept you and people who are not on Maroon. As has been pointed out, even USN wasn't forced off Maroon. [quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299780982' post='2658741'] By the time the forum communication thing would've come around, our treaty was cancelled after retroactive notice was given. You wanted to come to us to cancel, you [i]failed miserably in doing so[/i]. Had we known you were so pissed beforehand, we would've done something differently. I can't read your minds, so when you're ticked with us you [i]come to us[/i]. [/quote] Kind of like how you come to us when you're not planning to attack? You mean like that kind of "coming to us". The point is you said you're hoping to inspire a discussion and rather than simply starting one with us, you decided to attack us on the OWF like a child and hope we'd get annoyed enough to come to your forums. [quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299780982' post='2658741']You misunderstand me. I'm completely honest in my dealings with you. I found the terms to be a joke, and we found that if our entering the war on your side wasn't to be enough - which it seems it wasn't - then so be it. We went to war with LoSS on your behalf, and out of gratitude you cancel our MDP and tell us that we're not friends. I would say I'm sorry that you had to dive in without a chain instead of piggybacking on an alliance, what, a fifth of your size, but I'd be lying through my teeth. [/quote] I'm not claiming your terms weren't a joke. But the core of jokes are often your true feelings. You openly mocked your allies as you also did in private. You bailed 35 minutes before you were supposed to declare war along with your allies and the only reason we even knew about it was because we sought you out. There is plenty of evidence of us looking for you in order to communicate. What evidence have you for any attempts from The Brain to communicate with us? How many times have you initiated communications about this and other things? It seems you cry foul about something easily remedied when you never even once tried any of several avenues to remedy it. Your games on the OWF are meant to distract people from your own behavior but throwing CSN under the boss. Given CSN's history with The Brain and The Brain's history with CSN, your behavior is more than disappointing. And no one, not one person suggested our friendship was over from the side of CSN. You made that up as well. Although, it does seem you're doing your very best to make it true. [quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299780982' post='2658741']Yes, of course! In jest. I will happily take it in the spirit that it's offered and give it all the attention it deserves. If you have anything further you'd wish to add in private, feel free! You know where our forums are. [/quote] My responses to your public rants will unsurprisingly be public. Much like your responses to our private communications with you should have *shocker* been private. See how that works? I can explain better if you like. I know that you're new to this whole diplomacy thing, yeah?
[quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299770909' post='2658534'] I have a secret hope that my grandstanding generates some kind of response from the Commonwealth other than their enrenched allies speaking for them, or the hedging one-liners that have seemed so popular as of late. Maybe we'll luck out and this will kickstart something on the back end (as we've heard little to nothing from the CSN since before the war started, and it seems their former MoFA wasn't able to stoop to using the forums to contact us). Or maybe it'll generate missiles launched from the SuperFriends for our perceived grievances. So it goes. (In reality, I [i]really[/i] wanted to use Walter and the Mooninites. Good imagery helps promote entertaining announcements.) [/quote] First, I love that you just completely made up the idea that you preempted an attempt to boot you from the CA. It may or may not be true, but you have no evidence it is, yet you imply in several posts that you do. The decision to leave was your decision. Second, it's been implied that your alliance is being booted from Maroon. No one has ever even suggested that you should leave, let alone that you're required to leave. Third, are you unaware of where our forum lies? Last I checked the link to our forum was available to everyone, publicly. Somehow a representative of LoSS made it there, so I'm pretty sure it's possible for our oh-so-good friends to find it, no? I seem to have missed all the threads where you tried ever so hard to communicate with us. I'll say that I'm among those in CSN who openly questioned our handling of the treaty with you, but I must say I like your handling of it less. You and I have had our issues, but I hold the majority of The Brain in high regard. I knew little of this drama until you made it public, but I also know enough about it to know that you had other venues that would have been better suited to the discussions you claim to want. Attempting to use the OWF is somehow encourage communications that you could have started directly is childish. Launching attacks at CSN because you're upset they canceled your treaty is childish. And pretending that your attacks are all in good fun because you're not man enough to be honest is childish. If you held even a modicum of the respect you claim to hold and you were the adults you claim to be, then it would more than abundantly clear that this is bad behavior on your part. Furthering conspiracies about Maroon, GOD, and CSN is not something you should be doing to friends, especially since your claim that it was in "jest" seems to fall a little flat given the outright attacks that have been leveled by you and others in this thread and others toward CSN. But, hey, all of the above is in jest. See, that makes it just like I didn't say it at all. Seriously, in what world do we think putting "j/k" after insults erases them? My nephews stopped using that argument when they hit high school.
[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298945557' post='2647360'] Ah, back to Titan's one line that means we wanted to ditch LoSS, are we? [/quote] Kind of like you clinging to the fact that we actually engage and share with our allies and negotiate together as an excuse to say we're run by Xiph? Kind of like that. The difference, we can actually point to counter-evidence that shows us acting on our own. In your negotiations, until we accused you, there isn't a single example that you can cite to counter the fact that you abandoned them. The only thing you can mention is the fact that you joined in the first place, which is why we call it "abandoning" rather than simply ignoring them or refusing to fight. The most amusing part is that you guys wouldn't look half as cowardly if you'd just not entered in the first place since you had conflicting alliances by your own admission. Instead you tried to bail after 6 days and after only a couple more were so willing to surrender that you were willing to pay reps after a beating that had lasted about a week. It's pathetic. See, I can rehash old arguments, too. Something tells me, though, that isn't going to get anywhere. We've shown you to be pathetic. You think shaking your head vigorously counters that. And in the end, the evidence of how much we owned you is in the fact that you were prepared to surrender, and even get reps, after such a short time. I don't know that I've ever seen such a display. EDIT: Also, let me be clear, this has little to do with your membership. Lots of your members fought well as individuals and as small groups, but there was no overall coordination and, if you're making comparisons, that is what Leonidas did.
[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1298944692' post='2647342'] /facepalms We do not convince ourselves that we are achieving an outright military victory. We view this as Leonidas viewed his stand with the 300. We have made you bleed - badly. To us, that is victory. [/quote] Leonidas made as much out what he had as he could. He didn't fail in any number of ways outright. He didn't jump in and after 6 days of getting his behind handed to him, attempt to quit while leaving behind those he was claiming to protect. He didn't fail in any number of ways at being prepared for war and planning for war. And he didn't have a group of companions that numbered six times his own group and then utterly fail at coordinating with those companions in order to do max damage. Leonidas completed several goals successfully. You guys asked for an apology and didn't get it. You asked for white peace and didn't get it. You attempted to abandon your companions after 6 days and didn't accomplish it. This was our war. We controlled it. Leonidas was totally in control even in defeat. If not for a betrayal from within, Leonidas would have controlled the outcome for much longer. Your leadership is a lot of things. A valid comparison to Leonidas, you are not. There was nothing noble about the sacrifice you asked of your members. We don't pretend the sacrifice of our members was for some noble cause. It was what our alliance asked of us. And we did it. And unlike your alliance, we did it well and victoriously.