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Elrich von Richt
QUOTE
By JOAN LOWY and KEN THOMAS, Associated Press Writers Joan Lowy And Ken Thomas, Associated Press Writers – Wed Oct 28, 4:02 pm ET

WASHINGTON – The Northwest Airlines pilots who overshot their Minneapolis destination by 150 miles have prompted the Transportation Department to expand its distracted driving initiative to include "distracted flying," a spokeswoman for the department said Wednesday.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is concerned about "distractions as they apply beyond cars — to rail, buses, and now, planes," Jill Zuckman told The Associated Press.

The Obama administration and lawmakers have already expressed interest in targeting distracted driving, including the use of mobile devices while behind the wheel. LaHood held a summit meeting in September that brought together researchers, regulators and other experts on distracted driving.

A group of senators proposed legislation on Wednesday that would offer incentive grants to states that approve laws to combat distracted driving.

"Texting takes your eyes off the road — long enough at high speeds to travel the length of a football field," said Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., who leads the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee.

During a hearing on distracted driving before Rockefeller's committee, LaHood did not immediately address the Northwest pilots but noted "the problem is not just confined to vehicles on our roads — it affects all modes of transportation."

The Northwest pilots told safety investigators they were using their laptops to work out crew schedules for more than an hour last week while flying past their destination of Minneapolis. The pilots acknowledged losing track of time and place for 91 minutes while air traffic controllers and their airline's dispatchers tried vainly to reach them, federal authorities said.

Rockefeller, whose committee oversees the Federal Aviation Administration, said the incident "raises serious safety concerns."

The FAA said Tuesday that it had revoked the licenses of the pilots of Northwest flight 188 — Timothy Cheney of Gig Harbor, Wash., the captain, and Richard Cole of Salem, Ore., the first officer.

The pilots have 10 days to appeal to the three-member National Transportation Safety Board, the same agency that investigates air crashes and makes safety recommendations. If an appeal fails, they can apply for a new license after one year.

The pilots violated numerous federal regulations, including failing to comply with air traffic control instructions and clearances and operating their aircraft carelessly and recklessly, FAA said.

"You engaged in conduct that put your passengers and your crew in serious jeopardy," FAA regional counsel Eddie Thomas wrote Cheney in a letter accompanying the revocation order. "NW188 was without communication with any air traffic control facility and with its company dispatcher for a period of 91 minutes (over 1.5 hours) while you were on a frolic of your own. Failing to comply with ATC clearances or instructions while engaged in air carrier operations is extremely reckless."

A similar letter was sent to Cole.

The pilots said they realized they had overshot their destination when a flight attendant contacted them on the aircraft's intercom. By then, they were over Wisconsin at 37,000 feet. They turned the Airbus A320 with its 144 passengers around and landed safely in Minneapolis.

The pilots union at Delta Air Lines, which acquired Northwest last year, declined to comment. Earlier, the union had cautioned against a rush to judgment. The pilots told investigators who interviewed them on Sunday that they had no previous accidents or safety incidents.

Delta has suspended the pilots pending a company investigation. Phone messages left at the homes of the pilots were not returned.

Cole and Cheney said they both had their laptops out while the first officer, who had more experience with scheduling, instructed the captain on monthly flight crew scheduling. They said they weren't listening to the radio or watching cockpit flight displays during that period. The plane's radio was also still tuned to the frequency used by Denver controllers after the San Diego-to-Minneapolis flight had flown beyond their reach.

___

AP Airlines Writer Joshua Freed in Minneapolis contributed to this report.

___

On the Net:

Federal Aviation Administration: http://www.faa.gov

National Transportation Safety Board: http://www.ntsb.gov


Link to Article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20091028...ght_overflown_9

My Thoughts:

What in the hell. According to other reports from the Minneapolis Area's Star Tribune, these men were the first case of 'distracted flying'. Apparently they were browsing their laptops for over an hour and a half without contacting any ground control, or anything. This is also a commercial flight which is even more lolwtf. Apparently they hadn't realized they had overshot the runway until they were over Wisconsin, 150 miles away.

This made me want to facepalm hard, for the sheer idiocy.
Loki Ire
My question was, where the Hell was the plane's autopilot taking it? To me, when it gets close to its destination, there should be 17,000 alarms going off to alert the pilots until they disengage autopilot and 170,000 alarms going off on the ground if the autopilot isn't disengaged within about 2 minutes of the plane reaching the point where the pilots ought to be taking over to land it.

So what happened? This aircraft simply decided it was going to fly to Vegas to hock a wing at a pawn shop so it could play some slots? Nobody outside the cockpit went, "hey, we were supposed to land 15 minutes ago and we haven't began our descent, what the Hell?"? Nobody on the ground saw a plane pass its destination and simply continue flying off into nowhere?

Seems like there are a lot of questions beyond the idea of pilots being distracted. I don't care if my pilot is distracted during the 4 hours when there's nothing for him to do anyway. I care if the automated systems are broken/incomplete and there's nobody keeping an eye on what the Hell these aircraft are doing.
bigwoody
QUOTE (Loki Ire @ Oct 28 2009, 09:24 PM) *
My question was, where the Hell was the plane's autopilot taking it? To me, when it gets close to its destination, there should be 17,000 alarms going off to alert the pilots until they disengage autopilot and 170,000 alarms going off on the ground if the autopilot isn't disengaged within about 2 minutes of the plane reaching the point where the pilots ought to be taking over to land it.

So what happened? This aircraft simply decided it was going to fly to Vegas to hock a wing at a pawn shop so it could play some slots? Nobody outside the cockpit went, "hey, we were supposed to land 15 minutes ago and we haven't began our descent, what the Hell?"? Nobody on the ground saw a plane pass its destination and simply continue flying off into nowhere?

Seems like there are a lot of questions beyond the idea of pilots being distracted. I don't care if my pilot is distracted during the 4 hours when there's nothing for him to do anyway. I care if the automated systems are broken/incomplete and there's nobody keeping an eye on what the Hell these aircraft are doing.

All the autopilot does is hold an altitude and heading (and maybe airspeed), there's no magic alarm for reaching your destination.
Israfeel
QUOTE (bigwoody @ Oct 28 2009, 11:13 PM) *
All the autopilot does is hold an altitude and heading (and maybe airspeed), there's no magic alarm for reaching your destination.

Does the pilot just guess which plot of land thousands of feet below is the airport? I mean there has to be something to direction.
Loki Ire
QUOTE (bigwoody @ Oct 28 2009, 11:13 PM) *
All the autopilot does is hold an altitude and heading (and maybe airspeed), there's no magic alarm for reaching your destination.


Funny, my $50 GPS has an alarm when I reach my destination.
bigwoody
QUOTE (Israfeel @ Oct 28 2009, 10:15 PM) *
Does the pilot just guess which plot of land thousands of feet below is the airport? I mean there has to be something to direction.

Sure, you have GPS, VORs, NDBs, DMEs, and all kinds of joyful navigation aids (not to mention ATC when you file a flight plan).

Doesn't mean autopilot will do all the work for you, you still need to be a pilot.
Loki Ire
QUOTE (bigwoody @ Oct 28 2009, 11:18 PM) *
Sure, you have GPS, VORs, NDBs, DMEs, and all kinds of joyful navigation aids (not to mention ATC when you file a flight plan).

Doesn't mean autopilot will do all the work for you, you still need to be a pilot.


We're not talking about the autopilot doing all the work for you, but having an alert when you reach your destination is so simple it's ridiculous.

Hell, forget the GPS if that's oh so complicated. How about we stick a damn $5 alarm clock on board and set it for 10 mins before the plane is supposed to land, eh? Is that too difficult too?
bigwoody
QUOTE (Loki Ire @ Oct 28 2009, 10:20 PM) *
We're not talking about the autopilot doing all the work for you, but having an alert when you reach your destination is so simple it's ridiculous.

Hell, forget the GPS if that's oh so complicated. How about we stick a damn $5 alarm clock on board and set it for 10 mins before the plane is supposed to land, eh? Is that too difficult too?

The way you run flight plans isn't just A to B. You hit many different checkpoints along the way. ATC communicates updates and orders to you, that is your "alarm clock".
deja
QUOTE (bigwoody @ Oct 29 2009, 04:33 AM) *
The way you run flight plans isn't just A to B. You hit many different checkpoints along the way. ATC communicates updates and orders to you, that is your "alarm clock".

What? That's just false. Or you're being unreasonably picky. "Autopilot" systems strictly speaking only control the mechanics of the airplane, but in modern planes, they are almost always coupled with other systems that control waypoints, execute flight plans, etc...
bigwoody
QUOTE (deja @ Oct 28 2009, 10:34 PM) *
What? That's just false. Or you're being unreasonably picky. "Autopilot" systems strictly speaking only control the mechanics of the airplane, but in modern planes, they are almost always coupled with other systems that control waypoints, execute flight plans, etc...

Stuff that somewhat does what you're talking about exists in the very newest planes, but its rarely used in the way of "doing all the work", especially since planes often make course changes, i.e. to avoid weather.
deja
And those course changes can be made to the flight plan as it is programmed into the plane, and the plane can then execute those changes.
Vaal Satori
QUOTE (Loki Ire @ Oct 28 2009, 10:24 PM) *
My question was, where the Hell was the plane's autopilot taking it? To me, when it gets close to its destination, there should be 17,000 alarms going off to alert the pilots until they disengage autopilot and 170,000 alarms going off on the ground if the autopilot isn't disengaged within about 2 minutes of the plane reaching the point where the pilots ought to be taking over to land it.

So what happened? This aircraft simply decided it was going to fly to Vegas to hock a wing at a pawn shop so it could play some slots? Nobody outside the cockpit went, "hey, we were supposed to land 15 minutes ago and we haven't began our descent, what the Hell?"? Nobody on the ground saw a plane pass its destination and simply continue flying off into nowhere?

Seems like there are a lot of questions beyond the idea of pilots being distracted. I don't care if my pilot is distracted during the 4 hours when there's nothing for him to do anyway. I care if the automated systems are broken/incomplete and there's nobody keeping an eye on what the Hell these aircraft are doing.


Air traffic controllers sent repeated inquiries to the plane trying to figure out why it wasn't descending to land, but the pilots didn't respond. They contacted the military and two interceptors were on the tarmac awaiting the order to launch when a flight attendant on the plane finally alerted the pilots to the fact that they should have begun their descent an hour previously. When the pilots finally established contact the controllers made them execute a series of aerial maneuvers to prove that they were in control of the plane. The fear on the ground of course was that terrorists had hijacked the plane.
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