What's so good about honor in this world? Please, I'd like to know your thoughts

Honor is only a tool. You use it to get ahead in this world. That's my opinion, anyway.

TE is pretty much just a training ground for SE. Anyone who takes politics seriously on Steve is putting way too much time into the wrong area.

Why do you say that? Politics advance your alliance, when you advance your alliance you become powerful. When you become powerful whatever you say goes.

Honor is tech raiding without being an $@!.

ooc: Honor makes you see a lot less heads a top crudely made stakes.

However since 99.99% of you will never see anything like that, usually "honor" means not getting caught stabbing people who trust you in the back, or keeping inconvenient truths away from people trust you, at least until you stab them in the back

for the record this has to do with RL not with Tibs ( sorry Tibs ), I'm honorable in that I've killed people who put people's heads on stakes, not so much honorable in the other sets.:ooc

However if you are referring just into the realm CN, honor is whatever people call it. Since it describes a state of being honor has no concrete definition. If you an anti-semite a Neo-Nazi's are honorable for example.

The definition of honor most often would be "To live up to popular standards of ethical behavior."

Nothing on earth could mean less. Standards of ethical behavior is impossible to define, it's a medium of all the variations of ethical points of view of every individual, or a collection of what the "Majority" of people think. Most people would think it's wrong to be an anti-semite, of course the anti-semites.

I think that his actions were so unethical, that I've vowed to run his right out of CN my definition

The differences between Tibs and myself lie entirely on our ethical views. Our points of view have set us in a collision and the only difference is the lengths we would go to to advance our perspective alliances. I can admire his plan even as I loathe it, if I'm willing to accept that it's a matter of POV on each side.

That's mostly why people despise Tibs imho, they wish to project their ethics upon him. I personally do so to make my decisions, but I also accept his point of view as the reason, at least in his mind, of his actions.

All this is to say that ethical behavior only is valuable if you are doing it for yourself, if you are being "honorable" for any group of people or otherwise honor is a null word, and you are probably miserable for trying to be something that doesn't exist.

However I'd say that's the most common incarnation of the word "honor" so we wonder how honor went from something ethical to being as "honorable" as possible while dropping subtle hints about it, while at the same time pretending they are not so they are not perceived as "dishonorable".

And people wonder why I stick by the "People are idiots, until proved otherwise" way of life.

Can we go on a date? I think I love you.



so true, esp here on steve... always have to look at a POV from all sides

Honor = Knowing that your last beer isn't your last...

Or is that motivation?

Hmm... Honor = knowing you can finish your last beer.

Sorry bro, married. We can shoot pool sometime if you want though.

I'm always amazed how some people ( like Caustic ) can go from "idiot" to "not an idiot" in my mind within 4 seconds, but some people never seem to get off the list. Life is odd like that.

The only honor here is keeping your word. Anything other than that is pointless moralizing.

agree

The simplest and probably most accurate definition.
By extension, those who are liars have no honor.

Agreed. You have accurately answered the topic with this.

not in a world that resets every three months. You don't have any power when people can just attack you for the hell of it and not have any long term repercussions. People don't care if you ZI them for one round - they still got their hits in and it was still fun for them. Not to mention they can just re-roll and not be that far behind everyone else anyway.

Honor is a driving force in many conflicts. Especially in the East it is regarded as your life. If you have no honor, there is nothing to live for. It was almost the same for the knights of medieval Europe. Except they didn't commit suicide (all the time) if their honor was lost. Honor continues on into the Renaissance with the nobles of France and their honor duels. Today, there is very little honor in the world. The duels of France were petty things and unnecessary. But would it not be better to at least have honor to fight over, then to have none? Today no one has honor. Scandalous things come out all the time and it barely makes a difference. Instead of the shining knight in armor, whose word is his life. We see the figures of Hollywood in all their disgusting, non existent glory.

In my opinion, honor is good. I know if I ever had my honor challenged (or any of my friends) I would fight someone over it. Not to kill them of course. Only to prove that I have honor enough to defend my honor or someone else's.

But what is honor? well, that is the question. I would say your honor could be your courage, honesty, etc. It is more defined by the person in question.

In response to Hyperion, I disagree. Tiberius turned on allies and that has long term repercussions. Murder Inc. went around stomping smaller alliances....where are they now? TE has diplomacy and I would say more so than SE. Because I define diplomacy as getting someone else to stab someone else while you make sure they aren't doing the same. SE in reality is quite boring until you get to some actual wars. SE goes on and on and on until somebody attacks someone. Then everyone cries foul and people start crying about it.

I like this definition, we need to drink more



That is more true than many know



perfect for TE but could use a fix up:

" Keeping your word and backing your actions with honest answers. "

Why when I explain that honor is a meaningless word except by the definition of the person, does this idea continue. When you say that honor is "keeping your word" you're taking a majority opinion and placing the value of "honor" on it.

I hope no one in any person who thinks that keeping your word is given any important information. I dunno about some people but if someone from the AA my AA was going to blitz PM'd me and asked if we were going to blitz, I'd lie my $@! off.

And still feel honorable.

I completely agree. See my extended definition, which can be compressed into these words. Honor is relevant to the person in question ;D

Wasn't aimed at you Lysander but good "!" on what I was saying.

Tallah is extremely confused now but will go get a few drinks and hopefully sober up enough to understand

Honor is a dirty word. It's what the stronger entities use to rationalize and cauterize styles of fighting and politicking that actually affect them. If it hurts them, it's dishonorable. If it's successful well then it's a feature.

I keep saying, it's a null word. It means only what a person thinks it means, it exists no where but inside the mind of people, therefore like other states of being it doesn't mean anything by itself.

Honor, in it's meaning is simple. Carrying yourself in a manner of good conduct in the eyes of your peers. Many in TE claim to display it, but few do; in the same regard this isn't the venue to display it. Furthermore, as time has progressed the meaning behind honor has slowly been deluded by petty politicians attempting to profit off the good meaning behind it. Therefore, I think anyone who speaks of honor has little awareness of it's true meaning nor truly hold it their hearts as a virtue.

True honor isn't spoken of, it's displayed by the deeds of your actions and determined by the eyes of your peers.

After a long time of nothing but drinks (like 24 bottles of water and 8 sodas with a Tallah's sekrit Surprise (not to be confused with Tallah's Secret surprise) I agree with both Folger and Gabs

Pretty words, and well meant I'm sure.

Anything which is evaluated by your peers is by definition not internal, though perhaps it might influence internal decisions, which in itself is worse because it means that other people are influencing your personality make up.

A complete person knows that nothing should influence your decisions or actions that doesn't come from inside yourself, and while the opinions of loved ones may make you feel good, feeling good should not be the reason you do anything.

Make up your own mind and stick to it. Ignore everyone else around you unless they are willing to compromise with you in a way which mutually benefits you both. Honor is something you define, not other people. Just like any state of being.

It's well said, but it's your definition of honor and if put on a scale of people's opinions it might be at the top of the bell curve, but it's still an opinion, and it's still a bell curve.

*Tallah gets his quotebook*
Entry numbers 103 and 104......

no. Its more defined to the individual. But its core values are A: Courage B: Virtue C: to a lesser extent their reliability/honesty

If you say it only exists in someone's mind I think thats partially true. See definition above.