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Ned the Great
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/12/har...milk/index.html

QUOTE
(CNN) -- California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has signed a bill commemorating Harvey Milk, the first openly gay politician elected to public office in the state, a spokesman for the governor said Monday.

"He really saw this signing as a way to honor the gay community in California," spokesman Aaron McLear told CNN in a telephone interview.

Schwarzenegger vetoed a similar bill last year, saying he believed Milk should be recognized at the local level.

But since then, "Milk has become much more of a symbol of the gay community," McLear said, citing the eponymous movie starring Sean Penn, Milk's posthumous receipt of the Presidential Medal of Freedom and his induction into the California Hall of Fame.

Milk served briefly as San Francisco's supervisor before he and Mayor George Moscone were assassinated in 1978 by Dan White, a city supervisor who had recently resigned but wanted his job back.

Under the measure, the governor each year would proclaim May 22 -- Milk's birthday -- as a day of significance across the state.

The bill was one of 704 signed Sunday -- most of them near the midnight deadline -- by Schwarzenegger, said spokesman Aaron McLear.

The legislation passed the state Senate in May and the state Assembly last month.

The legislation has been divisive, with the governor's office receiving more than 100,000 phone calls and e-mails, most of them in opposition, spokeswoman Andrea McCarthy said last month.

But she added that most of the Twitter posts the governor received were in favor of the bill.

Schwarzenegger vetoed a similar bill last year, saying he believed Milk should be recognized at the local level.

Milk was a "unique" historical figure who led a civil rights movement and then was "assassinated in his public office for being who he was," State Sen. Mark Leno, a Democrat, told CNN last month.

However, Randy Thomasson, the president of SaveCalifornia.com, said the bill was vague and could allow for a number of things at schools, including gay pride parades or "mock gay weddings."

"Harvey Milk was a terrible role model for children," said Thomasson, whose organization opposed the bill.

"The reality is Harvey Milk is a hero to so many people and a great role model," said Geoff Kors, executive director of Equality California, the group that backed the bill introduced by Leno.

"It's very appropriate that the state he worked in and passed the first gay rights bill in the country should honor him."

He said the bill marks the first time any state has officially honored an openly gay person.

Leno said that claims that the bill would lead to schools holding gay-pride parades and similar activities were "hyperbole." The bill "mandates nothing," he said, although it "affords an educational opportunity."

President Obama posthumously honored Milk with a Presidential Medal of Freedom this year, and Sean Penn portrayed him in the 2008 film "Milk," for which he received an Oscar for best actor.


Megadittos to Gouvernator Shwarzeneggar for this awesome.gif . It's about time.
King Diamond
He probably did it because of the backlash from Prop 8.
Tritonia
Good to see he signed.
Iserlohn
This is probably a better explanation than "Prop 8 backlash", which doesn't really make sense as it was a voter proposition and not something he signed or even endorsed.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-ar...story?track=rss

He's a moderate Republican with little support from social conservatives anyways, so he can buy some votes for a water deal this way.
Boyle
So, Prop 8 goes through, and Harvey Milk is honored?

Hardly.
Alarik Martens
So a guy who did nothing more than be gay won more than his name in small printing for being a comissioner? What the hell is wrong with this world - or more specifically this country? A guy who didn't accomplish anything more in life than wanting to have sex with other men deserves the medal of freedom? Jesus Christ, what a joke everything has become.

Nothing is holy anymore.
Arcturus Jefferson
Yes, like the Lord's name which you so callously took in vain.
Alarik Martens
QUOTE (Arcturus Jefferson @ Oct 13 2009, 12:04 AM) *
Yes, like the Lord's name which you so callously took in vain.

Cute. But in all seriousness, this is retarded.
Arcturus Jefferson
QUOTE (Alarik Martens @ Oct 13 2009, 02:09 AM) *
Cute. But in all seriousness, this is retarded.

Cute? But you're blaspheming. You talk of moral decay while boasting of your own, proudly!
popsumpot
QUOTE (Alarik Martens @ Oct 13 2009, 04:02 PM) *
So a guy who did nothing more than be gay won more than his name in small printing for being a comissioner? What the hell is wrong with this world - or more specifically this country? A guy who didn't accomplish anything more in life than wanting to have sex with other men deserves the medal of freedom? Jesus Christ, what a joke everything has become.

Nothing is holy anymore.


Martin Luther King didn't do anything more than being black and giving a speech.

You see what I did there?
Bordiga
QUOTE (Alarik Martens @ Oct 13 2009, 04:02 PM) *
So a guy who did nothing more than be gay won more than his name in small printing for being a comissioner? What the hell is wrong with this world - or more specifically this country? A guy who didn't accomplish anything more in life than wanting to have sex with other men deserves the medal of freedom? Jesus Christ, what a joke everything has become.

Nothing is holy anymore.


I think he did slightly more than just "be gay."
JEB90
I'm glad to see this, Milk was a very influential figure.

I am, however, disappointed by the claim made in the article that he was assassinated "for who he was." The feud between White and Milk was almost purely political and Milk was shot for his perceived (and, by all account, actual) role in denying White's reappointment. I suppose, in many ways, Milk is a story of real progress in a community: a gay politician was shot, not for being gay but for being a politician.
Lamuella
QUOTE (popsumpot @ Oct 13 2009, 04:01 AM) *
Martin Luther King didn't do anything more than being black and giving a speech.

You see what I did there?


wrong example. He's a BNP voter and probably thinks MLK should have gone back to where he came from.
Alarik Martens
QUOTE (popsumpot @ Oct 13 2009, 02:01 AM) *
Martin Luther King didn't do anything more than being black and giving a speech.

You see what I did there?

Yeah - but Martin Luther King is overrated as well.
Lamuella
see?

Now, Heinrich Himmler, there was a man deserving of praise
Alarik Martens
QUOTE (Lamuella @ Oct 13 2009, 08:17 AM) *
see?

Now, Heinrich Himmler, there was a man deserving of praise

Himmler was a douche. Killing people for no reason is retarded. Regardless of which way you look at it, Hitler accomplished more than Harvey Milk and MLK combined. Not saying he deserves the Medal of Freedom, just saying that in the grand scheme of things - these people really aren't that important.
Arcturus Jefferson
Yes, Hitler managed to ruin a whole country, something you can't say for MLK or Milk.
Bordiga
QUOTE (Alarik Martens @ Oct 14 2009, 01:58 AM) *
Himmler was a douche. Killing people for no reason is retarded. Regardless of which way you look at it, Hitler accomplished more than Harvey Milk and MLK combined. Not saying he deserves the Medal of Freedom, just saying that in the grand scheme of things - these people really aren't that important.


It's easy for someone who wields the power of the entire German state, and carrying out the will of the German capitalist class, to achieve things. When members of oppressed groups do it, it's actually worth celebrating. When people like Hitler do things, it's worth remembering so we can prevent them from doing it again.
Alarik Martens
QUOTE (Bordiga @ Oct 13 2009, 10:02 AM) *
It's easy for someone who wields the power of the entire German state, and carrying out the will of the German capitalist class, to achieve things. When members of oppressed groups do it, it's actually worth celebrating. When people like Hitler do things, it's worth remembering so we can prevent them from doing it again.

I represent the Capitalist class. Therefore my stance is justified. Wollt ihr den totalen krieg?
Kenadian_2006
This was quickly derailed from honouring a contributor to society to the rantings of a bigot.
Bordiga
QUOTE (Alarik Martens @ Oct 14 2009, 02:03 AM) *
I represent the Capitalist class. Therefore my stance is justified. Wollt ihr den totalen krieg?


It's good when people know what side they're on. Though I'm pretty sure fascists are supposed to be representative of the middle class oppressed by organised labour and big capital.

But sure, no war but the class war.
Arcturus Jefferson
As a German capitalist, I don't understand why I'd be cheering for someone who made me build unproductive weapons then got my factories bombed.
Lamuella
QUOTE (Kenadian_2006 @ Oct 13 2009, 12:09 PM) *
This was quickly derailed from honouring a contributor to society to the rantings of a bigot.


pretty much any thread Alarik Martens posts in is at least in part about the rantings of a bigot.
Bordiga
QUOTE (Arcturus Jefferson @ Oct 14 2009, 02:11 AM) *
As a German capitalist, I don't understand why I'd be cheering for someone who made me build unproductive weapons then got my factories bombed.


You'd have been cheering if you'd won. And since when aren't weapons productive? Sound like guaranteed sales to me.

QUOTE
This was quickly derailed from honouring a contributor to society to the rantings of a bigot.


You're right. I shouldn't let him get to me. If only I wasn't so easily provoked.
Kenadian_2006
QUOTE (Bordiga @ Oct 13 2009, 12:15 PM) *
You'd have been cheering if you'd won. And since when aren't weapons productive? Sound like guaranteed sales to me.



You're right. I shouldn't let him get to me. If only I wasn't so easily provoked.


Don't let it get to you. Also, a fair point Lam.

On topic though, this is the first I've heard of Harvey Milk actually. And has Arnold received any flak for this? Something along the lines of being a hypocritical or cynical move?
Bordiga
QUOTE (Kenadian_2006 @ Oct 14 2009, 02:32 AM) *
Don't let it get to you. Also, a fair point Lam.

On topic though, this is the first I've heard of Harvey Milk actually. And has Arnold received any flak for this? Something along the lines of being a hypocritical or cynical move?


Ah! There is both a great movie, and a great documentary about Harvey Milk. Movie stars Sean Penn and only just released, entitled "Milk", while I believe the documentary is entitled "Times of Harvey Milk" and is also a great watch.
Iserlohn
QUOTE (Kenadian_2006 @ Oct 13 2009, 09:32 AM) *
Don't let it get to you. Also, a fair point Lam.

On topic though, this is the first I've heard of Harvey Milk actually. And has Arnold received any flak for this? Something along the lines of being a hypocritical or cynical move?


Well, as I posted earlier, he's a moderate to begin with with low support among social conservatives. Well, low support among everybody, really. This seems to be part of a massive amount of bills he is signing to grease skids for legislators to hammer out a water deal in Sacramento, which is really important to the state.

So the generic "councils for the research of family values and christian puppies and NO HOMOS" or whatever they're called are protesting it, but the Bay Area certainly approves.
Lamuella
it's an award that costs nothing, changes no law, makes one interest group feel better and can be explained away to another interest group as a cheap way to distract their opponent from your actual agenda (no need to follow through on the actual agenda).

In other words, it's smart politics.
Duncan King
QUOTE (Alarik Martens @ Oct 13 2009, 01:02 AM) *
So a guy who did nothing more than be gay won more than his name in small printing for being a comissioner? What the hell is wrong with this world - or more specifically this country? A guy who didn't accomplish anything more in life than wanting to have sex with other men deserves the medal of freedom? Jesus Christ, what a joke everything has become.

Nothing is holy anymore.

The reason he never went to higher office was that he was assassinated before he got the chance. It's somewhat absurd to hold that against him because if he was given the choice, he probably would have chosen to not be assasinated.

@ the OP, I think it's cool that California passed that, but I think it's too bad that the author was of the opinion that Harvey was killed because he was gay and the motion only passed because of the (admitting wonderful) movie.

I think a better interpretation is that Harvey Milk was elected despite the fact that he was gay. He lived in a time at the beginning of the gay rights movement when gay bars were being regularly raided by police (Stonewall, anyone) and people having consensual sex inside their homes could be arrested and convicted for the crime of sodomy (Bowers v. Hardwick). It was also before killing someone because they were gay was considered a hate crime and firing someone simply because he was gay was considered an improper reason to fire someone. Even today, there are very few LGBT government officials in the US.

He was killed because Dan White was extremely unstable and saw Milk, with his great popularity, especially with the mayor, as a threat. I do think homophobia had some part in it, but I agree that it wasn't solely the reason that Milk was killed.

I think that the bill would have passed Congress regardless of the movie being out, but the movie probably convinced the Governator that it would be more damaging to him to sign the bill than to veto it.
Kenadian_2006
QUOTE (Bordiga @ Oct 13 2009, 12:36 PM) *
Ah! There is both a great movie, and a great documentary about Harvey Milk. Movie stars Sean Penn and only just released, entitled "Milk", while I believe the documentary is entitled "Times of Harvey Milk" and is also a great watch.


Ahh, now I actually recall that movie (Milk) from an interview on the Daily Show, I think. I'll look into those, thanks.

@Lam and Iserlohn, do goons read each other's minds?
Lamuella
QUOTE (Kenadian_2006 @ Oct 13 2009, 01:02 PM) *
Ahh, now I actually recall that movie (Milk) from an interview on the Daily Show, I think. I'll look into those, thanks.

@Lam and Iserlohn, do goons read each other's minds?


it is among our many skills

we can also smell colors, and when we breathe out, it smells like butterscotch.

wait, I said that last part wrong. When we breathe out it smells like butt or scotch
Darth Andrew
QUOTE (popsumpot @ Oct 13 2009, 04:01 AM) *
Martin Luther King didn't do anything more than being black and giving a speech.

You see what I did there?

Did Milk campaign for years for gay civil rights? I honestly don't know. mellow.gif
Tritonia
QUOTE (Darth Andrew @ Oct 13 2009, 01:21 PM) *
Did Milk campaign for years for gay civil rights? I honestly don't know. mellow.gif

He was involved politically for about 5 years prior to his assassination. From January 8 – November 27, 1978 he was on the San Francisco Board of Supervisors.
King Diamond
QUOTE (Arcturus Jefferson @ Oct 13 2009, 09:01 AM) *
Yes, Hitler managed to ruin a whole country, something you can't say for MLK or Milk.


Technically, Gavrillo Prinzip ruined the world, which is makes him more important than Hitler.
New Inca Empire
QUOTE (Kenadian_2006 @ Oct 13 2009, 12:32 PM) *
Don't let it get to you. Also, a fair point Lam.

On topic though, this is the first I've heard of Harvey Milk actually. And has Arnold received any flak for this? Something along the lines of being a hypocritical or cynical move?


lol1.gif As you're not American and he has a different name, you may not realize this but Arnold is a Kennedy. I really don't think he gives a rat's $@! about the Right's feelings past getting a few votes that the Dems won't due to his party of choice.
Alarik Martens
QUOTE (Duncan King @ Oct 13 2009, 10:47 AM) *
The reason he never went to higher office was that he was assassinated before he got the chance. It's somewhat absurd to hold that against him because if he was given the choice, he probably would have chosen to not be assasinated.

@ the OP, I think it's cool that California passed that, but I think it's too bad that the author was of the opinion that Harvey was killed because he was gay and the motion only passed because of the (admitting wonderful) movie.

I think a better interpretation is that Harvey Milk was elected despite the fact that he was gay. He lived in a time at the beginning of the gay rights movement when gay bars were being regularly raided by police (Stonewall, anyone) and people having consensual sex inside their homes could be arrested and convicted for the crime of sodomy (Bowers v. Hardwick). It was also before killing someone because they were gay was considered a hate crime and firing someone simply because he was gay was considered an improper reason to fire someone. Even today, there are very few LGBT government officials in the US.

He was killed because Dan White was extremely unstable and saw Milk, with his great popularity, especially with the mayor, as a threat. I do think homophobia had some part in it, but I agree that it wasn't solely the reason that Milk was killed.

I think that the bill would have passed Congress regardless of the movie being out, but the movie probably convinced the Governator that it would be more damaging to him to sign the bill than to veto it.

Rewarding people based upon their intentions or potential is stupid.
New Inca Empire
QUOTE (Alarik Martens @ Oct 14 2009, 01:16 AM) *
Rewarding people based upon their intentions or potential is stupid.


So is ignoring it.
Alarik Martens
QUOTE (New Inca Empire @ Oct 13 2009, 11:45 PM) *
So is ignoring it.

The world revolves around results, not intentions. If it revolved around intentions, maybe we'd consider Abraham Lincoln one huge dick because he had plans to send massive amounts of blacks back to Africa.
Lamuella
QUOTE (Alarik Martens @ Oct 14 2009, 08:59 AM) *
The world revolves around results, not intentions. If it revolved around intentions, maybe we'd consider Abraham Lincoln one huge dick because he had plans to send massive amounts of blacks back to Africa.


and here's me thinking a BNP supporter would consider him a hero for precisely that.

the trick is to recognize both intentions and results.
Flatlander
QUOTE (Alarik Martens @ Oct 13 2009, 10:16 PM) *
Rewarding people based upon their intentions or potential is stupid.

Well .... rewarding a dead person is to my way of thinking technically impossible, but honoring them is not, and we honor people who were little more than symbols of larger ideals all the time.
New Inca Empire
QUOTE (Alarik Martens @ Oct 14 2009, 08:59 AM) *
The world revolves around results, not intentions. If it revolved around intentions, maybe we'd consider Abraham Lincoln one huge dick because he had plans to send massive amounts of blacks back to Africa.


I do think he was a 'huge dick' as you say. wink.gif
Kenadian_2006
QUOTE (New Inca Empire @ Oct 14 2009, 12:43 AM) *
lol1.gif As you're not American and he has a different name, you may not realize this but Arnold is a Kennedy. I really don't think he gives a rat's $@! about the Right's feelings past getting a few votes that the Dems won't due to his party of choice.


Wait...what? It's Swchwarz...yea not gonna spell that. It's Ahhnold isn't it?
New Inca Empire
QUOTE (Kenadian_2006 @ Oct 14 2009, 12:30 PM) *
Wait...what? It's Swchwarz...yea not gonna spell that. It's Ahhnold isn't it?


cool.gif As I said, different name. He's married into the family and has fully embraced their world view as evidenced by his not being a neo-con despite being a Republican. The man really is in the wrong party...
Kenadian_2006
QUOTE (New Inca Empire @ Oct 14 2009, 01:07 PM) *
cool.gif As I said, different name. He's married into the family and has fully embraced their world view as evidenced by his not being a neo-con despite being a Republican. The man really is in the wrong party...


He is still Ahnold. Always has been always will be. I actually forgot he married a Kennedy.
New Inca Empire
Must say I enjoy seeing him tell the rest of the Republicans to shove it.
Flatlander
QUOTE (New Inca Empire @ Oct 14 2009, 10:07 AM) *
cool.gif As I said, different name. He's married into the family and has fully embraced their world view as evidenced by his not being a neo-con despite being a Republican. The man really is in the wrong party...

He's a California Republican, which has always been a little different. *Plenty* of Republicans are not neo-cons.
Alarik Martens
QUOTE (New Inca Empire @ Oct 14 2009, 09:29 AM) *
I do think he was a 'huge dick' as you say. wink.gif

That probably has more to do with you being an anti-white racist than anything else.
New Inca Empire
QUOTE (Alarik Martens @ Oct 14 2009, 02:38 PM) *
That probably has more to do with you being an anti-white racist than anything else.


I'm an Anglo-Saxon with a strong Celtic history and live in the South... So how can I be racist against whites exactly? I mean racism means believing ones ethnic group to be better then others. How can I believe Anglo-Saxons to be better then... Anglo-Saxons? wink.gif

I'm just going to assume you misunderstood my post otherwise... mellow.gif
Lamuella
QUOTE (New Inca Empire @ Oct 14 2009, 03:10 PM) *
I'm an Anglo-Saxon with a strong Celtic history and live in the South... So how can I be racist against whites exactly? I mean racism means believing ones ethnic group to be better then others. How can I believe Anglo-Saxons to be better then... Anglo-Saxons? wink.gif

I'm just going to assume you misunderstood my post otherwise... mellow.gif


you're just brimming over with self hatred smile.gif
New Inca Empire
QUOTE (Lamuella @ Oct 14 2009, 03:14 PM) *
you're just brimming over with self hatred smile.gif


Ya, sort of like Hitler and Amawhatever and their Jewishness. And in the case of the latter, it's even true. lol1.gif
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