## Top Secret: Project; a necessary defense ##

Every citizen in Dragonisia is to be distributed 1 hand grenade and 1 AK-47 clips of ammunition in order to constitute resistance forces should the state come under any form of land based incursion. Along with these items will be instruction manuals on proper care and maintenance of the items in question. Additionally, registered citizens will have access to foreign military designs of potential enemy states for their known equipment schematics made available via the government interweb via their national ID and Logon.

The Underground Hive structures are to be prepared for use in the event of possible non-conventional conflict in the even the war should escalate. Citizens should be re-briefed on their assignments in the underground domain as well as re-familiarized with the entrances and exits of the hive cities. Hydroponics farms are to ramp up production to compensate for possible above-ground field contamination. Important officials should go ahead and begin relocation processes. The Sovereign Wealth Fund and our reserves are also to be sent to their proper under-ground supply destinations.

Subterranean monorails are to be placed on a heightened state of alert for potential terrorist activities. In the event of major conflict these will serve as a life-line of communications and transit between the hives.

OOC: Not allowed by the rules. Your military is your military. You cannot use your citizen population as a militia or military force in the case of an invasion.

ooc: Doesn't say anywhere that you can't have a guerrilla resistance. These aren't formal military. They're going to be nowhere near as effective.

OOC: ^- This

OOC: Pravus give the guy a break please he's rp'ing a leader we can complain about it when he actually uses those people

Edit: Actually

OOC: Of course the Loophole for this is that every time you lose a soldier one of your citizens steps forward to continue the fight as that isn't breaking the rules as your civilian becomes a soldier.

Reminds me of Call of Duty for the Russians.

Commisar: "First man gets a rifle, the second man gets the ammo. When the first man dies the second picks up the rifle and continues the fight".

OOC: This is metagaming. This was posted after the topic between me and Centurius. There was no mention that the topic was public, therefore you would have not known if anything was going to be heading to you. That being said, there's no actual reason for you to be arming yourself, because as of right now, there is no threat to your nation.

Also, what other people have said.

ooc: If you think of it really hard, that's how it works IG actually. Your soldiers die, you buy recruits from the citizens pool. That's exactly what I had in mind.

OOC: I laughed so hard at this statement. He is at war! Mael could use that for a reason for arming his citizens at this current time.

OOC: At the moment, there's no way for either side to get to each other. It's nothing more than a facade of war, Kevz.

There's no viable way for either side to get from one end to the other. While it may be obvious OOCly that me and Cent are preparing to ally, there's no IC way for him to have known that. And, if you look at the times of the topics, between mine & cent's, and Mael's, his was created a few minutes after ours was posted.

ooc: Bio. I've always been paranoid. My hives have existed since Tasmania. Every time I've declared a war on anyone.. regardless to their position in the world, I've prepped my citizens this way. Someone's going to get attacked and I'm aware it could be me or Tahoe either one, so I'm going to be prepared. You're just going to have to deal with it. There is no meta-gaming to preparing a national defense. You and Cent weren't even in my thoughts at the time I made the post. Thanks for letting me know. I'll try not to act like I know.

ooc: Biohazard has been put on forum ignore for defaming my character in and out of the forums. I will not respond to his RP henceforth. He started this by disrespectfully putting me on ignore in IRC after making these false accusations of meta gaming with no evidence. I am bringing this action to Moderation to ensure they understand my actions and the need for them. I can tolerate a good fight, but I can't tolerate blatant disrespect for a fellow player.

OOC: Oh my God, grow the hell up, people! If you can't take an accusation, don't RP! This is one of the most petty things I've seen.

OOC: Actually no it isn't petty, its Mael deciding to take a course of action that is more mature than return name calling etc. If Mael had been flamed in the forums or by PM he could report such behaviour to the mods but because it was done on IRC his only option is to respond by using the ignore function.

OOC: No, this is Mael doing something perfectly legitimate. Mael is NOT sending these troops to fight the war, I read this and I see no mention that he's going to use them on the frontlines. He's defending his country, as most leaders would when they are at war.

OOC: He wasn't even insulted! He was accused of metagaming, denied it, was given some evidence, complained, got added to IRC ignore, and then came on here and automatically unrecognized all of Bio's RPs. That's immature.

OOC: No, he's not. Read the first line of the quoted portion of Cent's post. "You cannot arm citizens". Period. No matter what the purpose. You cannot do it. Want to run a guerrilla war? Use your regular army to do that. There's a reason the Federation's army is trained in such tactics.

ooc: RE: Bio. If he ignores me, I have the right to ignore him. I do not have to play with someone who is going to call me a liar to my face over a coincidence and disrespect me. End of story.

ooc: Keeping it IC is one thing, defaming me out of character as a person is different and I take it very personally. Let him attack your integrity, if you care about it, and see how you feel.

OOC: It's the internet, respect is nonexistent in 99% of cases. He ignored you on IRC. You ignored him on the forums. That's like a kid not getting the candy bar he wanted and, after screaming and crying, getting surly in the car on the way home.

Edit: So Bio OOCly gave his opinion about your OOC self, and that has to affect RP?

ooc: No, this is like an adult saying, "I'm not going to deal with this argument any further." and walking away from it.. which is what I'm doing now.

OOC: I point you to Kevz's post. Once a soldier dies, a civilian steps up to take their place, BECOMING A SOLDIER.

OOC: He even said himself though : loophole.

Loopholes weren't allowed, last I checked.

ooc: *Reads the post by Bio* It's not a loophole, it's how IG works. You lose a citizen, you buy more soldiers from existing population.

OOC: No, it's not. Your citizen count does not go down as you get more soldiers IG.

ooc: Are you certain of that? I'm almost certain the entire time I was fighting the last war I saw my citizen counts go down as I bought soldiers. If not, that's probably because I was losing infrastructure. Either way, you have to have the population to recruit from.

OOC: Not a big deal guys. Besides, if they get used I can always just exterminate the entire population, so its win win Seriously though, armed resistance is not military

OOC: Weird you do lose citizens just at a strange rate. I just bought 12 soldiers and lost only one citizen.

ooc: See? Even Mudd knows this is simply a little fluff to cover how I draw armed resistance for the rp and drawing on my citizens for military. In the scheme of things, the post is simply outlining how the army and nation are to resist IC. I've never seen people over-react so badly.

OOC: Enviroment penalty



OOC: Yeah, just let it be all players in a conflict eventually use the same guidelines and I haven't seen any claim that his citizens are like special forces or something just citizens with an ak.

OOC: Considering it's blatantly against the rules, it's not overreacting. It's calling you out on a rule violation. I'd do it no matter who it was.

ooc: High school students with assault weapons! Go Red Dawn! :-P



ooc: Link me to a rule that says no nation may have resistance forces.

From the rules in the map thread:



Clear enough for you? Your only fighting force in a war is your military, period. And considering military training takes weeks to be proficient, you cannot simply call up civilians to replace them and expect them to be an effective fighting force.

ooc: No, it's not clear enough for me, that's not a link to an authorized rules post. They're not fighting, they're being prepared to fight. If citizens could not be prepared to fight we would not have soldiers at all.

OOC: I don't think he is expecting them to be an efficent fighting force, he has done so so that he can write intresting RP. I mean it isn't a rule its a guideline for one but putting that aside if I personally did it id give the civilians a kill to death ration of about 1: 10 or 1:15 that way you can write a good rp but it would be unable to stop an attacking enemy.

Those are the authorized rules for CNRP. You cannot suddenly pick and choose which rules to follow and when to follow them.

OOC:Guidelines not rules.

In all seriousness, what part of "You cannot arm your citizens" don't you understand?

ooc: They're not fighting, they're being prepared to fight. If citizens could not be prepared to fight we would not have soldiers at all. Those are also guidelines, not rules.

OOC: Then I guess you have no soldiers. I'll prepare to invade promptly.

There is a difference between your citizen count and your soldier count. The rule should probably say civilians, but you know what it means and are merely trying to use more loopholes to try and get your way. You are intentionally misinterpreting the rules (or guidelines, what the $%&@ ever) to get your own way.

OOC: Must... Resist...

*fails*

OOC: Wow... nice gun.

OOC: I think there is too much OOC material in here, but the reason it is wrong to arm every one of your citizens for IC reasons is that it sets up the idea that later you CAN use them and then refer back here and note that nobody had a problem with it. Armed citizens are like guns on the wall in a novel, if it's mentioned it is mentioned to be used. You can't arm 100% of your nation, only 80% , because no one wants to see a 90 year old granny and her 3 year old grandson outside firing away with AK-47s, or the man with no arms... what is he supposed to do with a AK-47? Fire it with his toes?

ooc: To fix Zarfef's concerns: The able bodied population to wield such weapons has been armed and issued draft cards in case they may be summoned for selective service ^..^

Pravus: There's no breach in the rules. You're misreading rp for making citizens active combatants when they're simply being prepped for a likely draft. They'll be nowhere near as effective as the initial 120,000 soldiers as they're not fully trained and will be called up as replacements as the military diminishes in conflict, but not at the same rates.. as in all natural conflicts and wars. This is how armies renew themselves. If it gets bad enough, you're tail is kicked so hard you become little more than a resistance force of the relatively untrained and oppressed.

OOC: So, Mael, by your logic, I could take all my citizens that can use a weapon and put them in reserve. Whenever I lose a man, I put a citizen in. I can keep doing this until my 40-50 million-ish population is depleted, most of the remaining population are sick, elderly, infants, or in some other way unable to work or fight, and my economy dies? So I can have a 40 million man army, just not at the same time?

ooc: If you noticed the gun first, I have bad news for you.

OOC: Reflections...

For as long as I have been part of the CNRP community, never once have I seen people draft from their populations. I have heard various arguments that it is illegal, that it is in the guidelines and so on and so forth. However we are also drying to place some realism into this game as well and therefore a civilian draft could be implemented, however I would say with different precautions. Mael, I like the Draft Card idea however as to arming every single on of your able bodied citizens, the US is at war now, and I have friends that have draft cards but the government never gave them guns in case we were invaded. A draft is essentially that people know that they have the possibility of going to war, plus to arm every single citizen I believe would take a crunch from your economy, as well as the civilian paranoia that goes along with such a massive armament. You can RP this, but you should also heed that there are repercussions from doing a massive draft, Vietnam for instance.

In addition, you MAY NOT under any circumstances have the Dragonisian National Army number greater than...31,610 as your IG number of military soldiers is 3,161. Continuing this, your must RP training of soldiers, give the necessary time to train your army and so forth, all still taking a toll on your economic production as you take more citizens from the production, economic, and industrial sectors to place them on the front or into training. Of course you may take people directly from civilian life and throw them onto the front line, but then I would assume that the ratio for fighting there would be 20:1 or worse, think the Soviets in WW2.

On the opposite end, if the citizens do go through training and do complete their exercise in an 'x' amount of time, which would be decided by the speed and nature of the war, then I believe this is a legitimate way of going about replenishing forces on the front line and on the battlefield so long as it is not abused. Therefore, when the 'allied' armies would attack Mael and if those training programs would be completed, then they would fight just as strong or perhaps just a little weaker than most soldiers.

Please tell me, questions, concerns, or if I missed anything.

Thanks.

PS. Mael and Bio, even if you have each other on ignore you still have to respond to attacks that you make on each others country. So ignore or not, if you refuse to recognize a warring party, they will advance in your country until you stop them or they take you over. Not saying you have to like each other, just saying to have to recognize the RP movements.

OOC: Just a note... the maximum # of troops Mael can have is 16,065... or 160,650 with the multiplier if my math is correct. He currently has 23,242 supporters, which, minus his 3,161 troops, gives him 20,081 citizens. Since our military can be up to 80% of our population, that gives him 16,064.8... or rounded up to 16,065.

ooc: That's okay Sarah, there are people wanting me to leave the community. If I can't ignore them, I may be leaving it. I'm going to be making a post soon siting my reasons and concerns and asking a moderator's ruling on the problem.

As for what you're saying, completely understood. However, traditional rules have not been IG Troop count*10, but max IG Troop count*10, which is what you can buy. For me that's 12,000 soldiers or 120,000 men. If this war goes on that is what I was going to fight with. NPO is under terms so I have way fewer than I actually could fight with. Other than that I'm in agreement and I'm assuming that's just because you thought it was going only by base IG troop count.