1. State the current situation: As of right now only total population with modifiers is shown

2. State the problem with the current situation: Since modifiers only refer to the base population of your nation and not the total population there is no easy way to calculate on the fly how events, trades, improvements will affect your total population count thus making it harder to come to an informed decision. There are calculators out there that can do it for you but not every player knows about these. You could also try to calculate your base pop by subtracting your modifiers but c'mon that's a bit tedious and could get a bit out of hand. A practical example is that right now most middle sized nations have to buy Border Walls until they see a drop in income and then go back and destroy the last one they bought to go back to the optimum number. That's just wasting money when they could figure out with a little math exactly where to draw the line.

3. State how you suggest to changing it: As with land and how it shows purchased/modifiers/growth you would do the same with population. ie base pop/pop from modifers/pop from land

4. State why your suggestion is better than the current situation: I believe this will give players a more informed view of their nations properties so they can make better choices when it comes to the effects that certain wonders/improvements/resources/events will effect their population and thus income and then can make better decisions about how to build or alter their nation.


As an aside you can add it to the extended display just so that it's there. I would also only make it viewable by the player.

Approved for discussion.

its there for base troop amounts, i dont see why it cant be there for citizens

A 2% drop in base pop = A 2% drop in total pop
A 2% rise in base pop = A 2% rise in total pop

Which is to say it doesn't matter one jot whether or not you use total population or base population if its a percentage modifier. I've never seen anything other than a percentage modifier when it comes to population, and thus I see no need to change the system in such a way that would make it easier to reverse engineer the full formula for population. The game needs to have some hidden factors to make it interesting and challenging.

In particular the Border Walls is a difficult calculation because it has the potential to both increase and decrease population at the same time. The fact that some people are wasting IG money because they won't "do the math" is what allows those who do "do the math" to get ahead of the curve, because they are willing and able to do the math to get that insy winsy edge in terms of nation growth strategy.

Finally the base population is actually a combination of factors which is derived from the more fundamental units in the game, such as land and infra. The reason why land is split up is because specific sections of land affect different game mechanics for which the formulae have been made public (ie purchased land governs whether or not you can buy an ADP). Soldiers similarly have a primary function of game mechanics that is based directly on actual soldier number (anarchy) and thus keeping track of the actual soldier number is important. Base population however has no such fundamental function and is in fact an entirely derived quantity, and thus it being exposed would not add anything to the game and would in fact remove an element of skill from the game as it exists now.

Simple and beneficial to every nation; it shouldn't be too hard to add to the games code either. I can get behind this idea.

I really don't see how its any more beneficial than the current manner in which things are displayed. From a math point of view if you take 2% away from the base population or from the total population you get the same number out at the end.

For example:

Nation with base population of 50,000 and a total population of 58,300, so a total modifier of 16.6%

A 2% decrease in population due to an event:

Calculation applied to the base and then the modifier applied:
Base: 50,000 citizens
Base - 2%: 50,000*0.98 = 49,000 citizens
(Base - 2%)*pop mod = 57,134 citizens

Total - 2%: 58,300*.98 = 57134 citizens

So you get precisely the same number out on either end regardless of whether you apply it to the base pop or the total pop.

It's beneficial in the same way that having land separated by growth/purchases/modifiers is. Gives people a clearer picture of what their nation's actual population is to determine what would be more useful. Right now, most people do not know their base population and base population is an important figure for nation growth. The benefit is having a number that one can easily check their nation for without going through algebraic equations and spending 10 minutes to include all modifiers and making sure it is correct. I love doing math, don't get me wrong, but we're talking about a game where some people only spend just a few minutes to actually doing anything with their nation per day. This doesn't create an unfair advantage to anyone, and it gives an advantage to everyone because they would know their base population in the matter of a few clicks.

No its not. There is an actual game mechanical difference between purchased, modified and grown land. Each affects different things in game and thus knowing the precise separate values is important. Base and Modified population don't have separate differences in terms of game mechanics, both are affected in precisely the same manner by all modifiers, and both have exactly the same effect on everything in your nation. For all intents and purposes there is no difference between the two, and thus no reason for showing the difference.

Calculating how much population you will get from 7.89 units of infra (random number plucked out of thing air) is not something that needs to be done in order to promote nation growth. Its something that would be nice to do, and would give you more of an edge over those who don't, however what you are asking for is a freebie in making that calculation. Creating a spreadsheet for that particular calculation will also do what you desire (getting the answer in a few clicks). Adding something to the game because you don't want to do math is not a reason to have something added to the game.



What do you mean by "more useful"? What exactly would knowing your base population give you that you do not have now? I'd like an example please (and no the BW does not count because you don't need to know your base population but instead you need to know how the environment effects your population).



Again how? Improvements are based off of total population, as are soldiers. An example of how you deem knowing the figure "important to nation growth" would go a long way to helping your argument.

This would be nice in the extended display.

Why?

What's the difference between this and income?

Solution, get firefox and download CNextend if dealing with border walls.

I'd rather admin spent his time on something a bit more substantive than this to be honest for the following reasons:

1. You haven't actually given any basis for why this should be added other than that it would help you build your nation better. I'm pretty sure it would make about zero difference to nation-building and even if it did, why is that a reason to implement this?

2. The problem that you're having with border walls is probably not knowing the effect it has on your income and population via environment, which is quite a distinct problem.

3. A pretty accurate (good enough) base population is pretty easy to work out with a scan or search of Gameplay Discussions or this forum.

I would love to see this implemented in the game. Plain and Simple it is a good idea. If it exists for land why not pop?

Suggestion Good: Removes one of the only existing areas from the game where players can actually gain competitive advantage economically.

Suggestion Bad: this suggestion removes one of the only areas in the game where a player can get a competitive advantage by doing math.


Also, lol at this:


All this suggestion does is provide information that you should be able to (relatively easily) derive.

I would completely do the math if I had the formulae which have been made public, but i haven't a clue of where. I came here in June. This would be helpful to newer players that could use some guidance. If it is done for soldiers, happiness, and environment, it can be done here.