We have basic stats we must keep growing that are essential to nations which are Infrastructure, Technology, Military, Land. What I propose is another addition to that. The new stat I consider being added to the game is Agriculture, nations need this to survive and is as large a part of a nation as the other 4 areas, which will affect population and solider efficiency along with infra, but also compete with it over land making you have to balance the two to keep your country going and population healthy and fed and your soldiers effectiveness up, having to little in relation to your infra would mean starvation, low population, and a weak army, having too much Agriculture over infra would me weaker economy and income being damaged do to to high surplus.



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I'm not much of for figuring out formulas so I will keep this simple and that could be talked about here. How do people like the idea?

approved for discussion.

Anything that makes the game more involved, I approve of. Though we need somebody to come up with some stats.

I like the idea. Nations need food.

Another addition can be "Energy requirement".

Energy would help with upkeep of infrastructure, improvements etc.
A shortage of energy would result in lower efficiency of infra/improvements/wonders.

How will you introduce the state to all the pre-existing nations?

Whats the point of introducing a specific land-use as a resource in its own right when we already have land?

It's too late in the game to add something major like this. Old nations will have to spend all their money on this new money-guzzling feature just to get it so their nation is "even." (whatever that will be with this new feature)

I can see larger nations just getting that much farther ahead of the smaller nations. The larger nations would have more money to purchase this as the smaller ones would not.

Make it a sell-able thing. Nation A has say 100 agriculture over it's needs and nation B is short by 100. Nation A enters in a trade with Nation B for 100 agriculture for x mill every 10 days. That way, larger nations can take care of any shortcomings and smaller nations that have land (since I assume the biggest thing about this ag suggestion is having more than the average amount of land,) can make some money.

It'll also encourage more land buying and I think we can all agree that in some way, shape, or form land needs some sort of retooling.

This actually has potential so long as it doesn't become akin to tech dealing. Make it something that large nations CANT get enough of on their own so they buy it from small nations to keep up with their populations demand. Making it essentially something to help smaller nations grow faster and slow down larger nations, and acting as something of an equalizer.

I would love to see something like this tied in with the Resources that we trade. Some of the resources definately appear to be very agriculturally based.

Perhaps have agriculture be another modifier for such aspects like happiness and military strength. Yet do not allow it to be directly bought as agriculture itself is something that is much more complicated then simply buying it.

So perhaps have certain Resources give a bonus to the growth of your agriculture. You could have Land be the biggest factor in how your agriculture rises and then have some less then one multipliers from each of the resources that might be considered agriculture based. That might turn some of the less then desirable resources into something atleast a little more desirable.

What would be better (in my opinion) would be to instead of adding a new stat altogether to make land have sub-categories type thing. You split your land into infratructure space, agricultural space, water space (if the user doesn't import water he needs this!), resource space (if they don't leave room for resources they weaken or go away).

Many other ideas can come from that. Also if you do this, small and big nations alike will have the same land they had before, they just have to reorganize it which doesn't affect anything.

I like this idea better than the original suggestion but I still think it makes things overly complicated.

Well, if you say for x infa you need x land to feed them once you start getting into the higher infa level nations, it'll eventually get cheaper for them to import food rather than make some expensive land purchases.

So you'd (probably,) see mid and low infra-range nations buy more land with the low range folks looking to make a agriculture deal or two and mid range folks looking to have just enough land that they aren't particular slowed down by having to pay to import food. Meantime, the high range infra folks would find it simpler to part with some cash three times a month (or so,) than trying to buy up more expensive land.

Short version- you'd probably see more land total bought, with the bulk of that coming from mid and lower infra ranges and they'd be roundabout compensated for it through food deals by the higher range folks.

Actually if you're doing that, it is exactly like tech dealing, save for the fact that buying tech from smaller nations is optional, though strongly advised, particularly if you figure on being at war at some point--low tech equals death.

It would make perfect sense if larger nations had an easier time of generating cheap food while smaller nations would have more of a challenge. This would lead to food for tech deals and all sides would benefit.

I see where you're coming from. Though the way I see it is something very distinct from tech dealing.

You're right that it makes sense that a larger agriculturally developed nation would produce lots of cheap food, however when we're looking at 10k+ infra behemoths, who usually have just a bit more than minimum required land (unless they were active raiders when raiding was something that could be done for fun), these are likely to be nations where food is hard to come by without importing.

You could perhaps have a scale of food production by a factor of both population density and total land. No matter how much infra you have, if you have land you'll produce some food. But when your population density is higher (100+ let's say), the whole nation is like one big city, leaving little room for farming and such, creating the need to import. Whereas a nation with a lower population density (50 and below) is producing far more food than they need, and thus have plenty to export.

Someone with a population of 100,000 who happens to have 5000 land will produce a really large amount of food. However that same nation with 1000 land is going to be struggling to meet their own demand.

Similarly, a nation with 10,000 population and 500 land will have an excess of food they are able to sell. Not as much as the same proportioned nation who is 5x bigger, but still an amount that will be worthwhile to a larger nation who is on short supply.


Here's how I invision it actually working:


First I want to comment I don't like the comparison to tech dealing. Tech dealing is bad for one reason: Tech never goes away. As such the advantage goes always to the nations who began tech dealing first, with very few war based exceptions. There is a hard cap on how much tech you can buy, and it is all restricted within the aid system. I have argued for a long time tech dealing needs to be re-evaluated entirely if we ever hope to stop the ridiculous inflation in the game.

So this agricultural produce, which we will now call food is consumable. Make it a part of daily bills, or a separate daily bill pay style thing. You log on, you feed your citizens.

If you don't have enough food to feed your citizens, each day your population falls until you have enough food to feed them all. After feeding them all regularly for a few days they start coming back.

Food is produced as described above. Exact formulas can be worked out if people actually like the idea.

From there, food is bought and sold through a separate screen from foreign aid. You might make a public sellroom, but I prefer keeping it the same way as aid and trades, you have to go to individual nations to find sellers/buyers. But it needs to be tracked separately so you can send the money outside of the normal aid system in exchange for food.

I say this simply because as it stands foreign aid is too restrictive. If we ever switched to slotless aid I would support this just being integrated into the system. But unless that happens it really needs to be separate. Otherwise there's a large chance of not being able to import a good amount, or be able to sell off all excess, etc.


And I felt like I should have more to say but forget what it was so Im cutting off here. Please poke holes in this.

I like this idea, but how about this:
Food income is based mainly on land, but also on tech (so land/tech rich nations will be able to export it).
Food costs are based mainly on population but also average income (slightly), so richer nations need exponentially more.
This means nations must make a choice between land and tech to produce food, or just infra to make raw cash.

This will lead to both food-for-tech deals (for infra and tech heavy nations) and cash-for-food-and-tech deals (for land and infra heavy nations). Thiss will allow for larger variation in nations (instead of the standard way for nations to grow).

A basic formula might be:
Food produced = (land x 100) + (land x tech x 0.03)
Food consumed = population x (sqrt) income / 2
So I owe ~300,000, and gain ~180,000 + ~130,000, leading to a profit of ~10,000 a day

I'm not sure how realistic this is for other nations, any improvements are welcome

Actually, it would be based more on the infra:land ratio. Below a certain level with a marginal utility curve.

When you lack enough infra for the amount of land it becomes harder to work all the land enough to get enough yeild and thus much is left fallow, but as the infra goes up it gets better. However, if the amount of infrastructure becomes to dense the amount of land that can be used diminishes. Technology could play a role (although its quite powerful resource already) as the amount of technology would push the curve further before it reached its maximum potential.

*Houston do we have a go/no go for launch? Over.* *Hell, your the ones straping your self to a Roman Candle, the least we can do is let you pick that. Over*

I think this would be a great addition XD. ~Hath Said The King~

King Adam Olivier

AG is infra. ho hum.

You could boost the FAC by making it so that if you have it, your importation cap is raised by 75% per shipment; the exporter's sending cap would also be raised 75% if the person he is sending to has the FAC.

Don't know if that makes sense... But it did when I was writing it down.

"Energy Requirement?" Suggestion by me

As to summerize that, i suggested some para-improvement constructions that would give you Energy; which would be required to sustain Infrastructure without penalties. Also, additional energy would give you some bonuses.

It was later suggested that it may support Tech instead. The topic is kinda dead now :/ but if anyone would like to add something, i dont think anyone would be angry.