Maybe there could be an anti-anarchy unit, say police officers, that reduce the ill effects of anarchy, based on the amount per mile of land, we could even go a step further and have them require 5 police headquarters. Any ideas?

Approved for Discussion.

I actually think the effect of anarchy should be increased. People now a days have large enough war chests that they need not collect at all (which is the real downfall of anarchy) so there should be more effects of anarchy that is not based on collections. If there were more consequences to anarchy (outside of collection) then I would support this.

This.

It would have to be balanced for anarachy to be much harsher (affect you more while under anarchy daily, so you'd want to end it sooner), but also be easy to correct if you have the right stuff. IE, if you can get things mobilized it'll end the next update. This would have to be independant of any war effort beyond perhaps nuclear anarchy because it would basically be a way of encouraging beatdowns, though it might also discourage turtling unless someone really is truly outclassed.

The real penalty of anarchy is the inability to declare offensive wars.

This.

That's why blitzing is effective. It makes it so they cannot declare offensive wars.

Anarchy should perhaps be made worse, but measures should available to help control anarchy as there is in RL.

Certain aspects of what can send you into anarchy need review as well I feel, the whole anarchy if you send to many troops out makes no sense at all, would you take to the streets and throw your entire country into turmoil because to many soldiers left to go to war probably to defend your nation??

There may be a game mechanic behind this but if someones foolish enough to not leave enough soldiers at home, surely its enough of a punishment to have their infrastructure razed and tech stolen because they were daft in the first place.

Actually, the tax penalty for having your government set to "Anarchy" is relatively small, it's not carrying sufficient soldiers that takes a bite out of productivity.

Personally, I'd like to see a non-offensive alternative to soldiers to prevent "A large portion of your population is rioting as a result of your lack of forces." I don't see why lacking an international capacity should disrupt my domestic order. I know that IRL I'm policed by domestic peace officers, not Marines.

Perhaps have police officers where they cannot be killed by attacks, but they are affected by enviroment. Worse it gets, the worse they become at policing and the more you need. The better it gets the better they get. However having too many causes turmoil as people feel oppressed. Soliders could still act as officers though. The difference is that they can be killed.

There would have to be some other penalties with low policing that wouldn't be anarchy and we'd probably have to really add a corruption or crime element into the game.

I like this idea. After you have x number of police headquarters, you should be able to purchase law enforcement officers. Having law enforcement officers would shorten the period of anarchy, but if you have too many, the LEOs have an adverse affect on your population happiness.

I like this idea, it stops nukes becoming the "i win" button.

i think anarchy should be more harmful to the enemy or yourself. Lowering your economy much more. In real anarchy there is not economy, just chaos

Maybe we can have different levels of anarchy to match the different levels of distress your nation can be in.

Model:

Level 1: Cannot launch offensive war (lasts 2 days).
Level 2: Cannot launch offensive war, 10% income penalty (lasts 2 days)
Level 3: Cannot launch offensive war, 30% income penalty, cannot accept new trade deals (lasts 4 days)


... or something like that.

I like this idea

Possibly although I'd go with more:

Level 1: Current penalties (lasts 2 days).
Level 2: All penalties of Level 1 + cannot declare ground assaults (+3 days)
Level 3: All penaltiies of Level 1 & 2 + cannot launch spy ops (+3 days)
Level 4: All penalties of Level 1, 2 & 3 + cannot engage in any offensive military action (+4 days)
Level 5: All penalties of Level 1, 2, 3 & 4 + cannot anything other than soldiers (+4 days)
Level 6: All penalties of Level 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 + cannot be declared war upon and cannot be shortened (except by the FSS) (+5 days)

Nuclear anarchy cannot bring you lower than Level 1. If your at a lower level it won't raise it though. Only defeat alerts will lower it and it will be lowered by 1 time. If this were in place though there would have to be a way of lowering the time except for level 6 because that allows a nation to recover by not being able to be continously DoWed on. However, at the same time they will be in anarchy for an additional 21 (20 with FSS) so they pretty much have to collect in anarchy.

Thanks for expanding on the idea Jinnai. However, I think if we are to make Anarchy potentially really devastating, it might be worth considering allowing a grace period post anarchy where nations cannot be declared war upon, but I can also see how that can conflict with the ZIing aspect of the game.

This seems to me only as a NATO Doctrine :/ civilized countries around the RL world tend to DEFEND THEMSELVES on their own land; u defend yourself when u'r attacked. If not, u'r the one attacking somebody else. Or would you defend your family from a criminal going around the city with a shotgun taking anyone who seems suspicious of commiting a crime? dont think so.

ontopic, i definitely aprove this! but.. hey, what about this?

Delete(Or lower) the Happiness bonus from the Police Headquarters, and make them reduce the Anarchy effects at a certain degree; also, erase the 5-Police Headquarter's cap, and enable you to buy one for every 100-200 miles of land or something like that (it's just a guessed nº, i have 5 PH's and have almost 900 miles of land)If the number of police headquarters that you own are below 1PH/180 miles of land or over 1PH/120 miles of land, u'll get a happiness penalty.. the close to 100/200 miles per Police Headquarters, the worst happiness penalty. Seems realistic Too much police officers = sensation of lack in liberty. Not enough police officers = disorder, criminality, insecurity.

what'cha think?

Maybe you could add some kind of "domestic security" function for spies.

Given anarchy has been made harder to put nations into (seriously, a well prepared nation needs nuking to hit anarchy) there really isn't a need to reduce its effect, as any attempt to do this will result in every nation having the defence against anarchy (as warchests are at the moment).

In Anarchy, people riot, burn and destroy stuff. Maybe land should be reduced per day? infra per day?

Some minor infrastructure damage per day makes sense, and shouldn't too be hard to implement...

Make anarchy a bit harsher and then have a civilian police force that counteracts it. From there you could tie in crime, corruption based on certain governments, and police hq's. Tie in some enviro aspects and spy defense too. Maybe even reduce the effects of nuclear anarchy a little bit.

Make a whole new theme with this. Branch out the game a bit and tie a bunch of stuff into it. Something that livens up the "few clicks a day" monotony during peace time.


Seems like a relatively easy way to broaden the game.

I like the civilian police force idea and it doesn't sound hard to implement. Perhaps they should be more expensive than soldiers to maintain, and their effectiveness is improved by purchasing a police headquarters.

I was thinking this should be changed to force people to collect to get out of anarchy.. like peace mode...

*Ahem* We really should find a better substitute for "Anarchy" in order to denote the penalties for losing war.

That said now, I think Anarchy should definitely be more potent, or perhaps the coding updated so that the military features do more damage when they're attacking nations that are in a state of chaos, or maybe even quartering the effects of improvements, and halving the effects of wonders.

I think the Police HQ improvements should slightly reduce the effects of anarchy and shorten it. Even without enough soldiers, at least you have police officers that can maintain some order.l

I think there should be an entire separate police system..

working on some details...

I find it weird that everyone here wants the penalties for anarchy to be harsher. Personally, I don't think there should be any significant economic penalty for being in anarchy aside from losing the government bonus. The reason I think this is because harsh economic penalties that accompany anarchy (especially nuclear anarchy) disproportionately benefits nations with larger war chests. By getting rid of the penalties, nations with small war chests can actually raise money during war to fight, whereas with the current system, we are essentially having breath holding contests where certain contestants get to have scuba gear underwater whereas the poorly prepared ones have no means to increase their oxygen supply until they float up to the surface dead as a log (and don't get me started on some of the some of the larger nations. They have bloody nuclear submarines for war chests).

Note: I'm not pushing for my position all that seriously since I do realize that anarchy shortens the length of wars by cutting off the funding of nations in anarchy.

i fully support this point of view. i fought up to 6 nations this war and the only thing that anarched me was a nuke. if you are active and if you know how to play, getting anarched is pretty hard. as for the hardening of its effects, i dunno... not being able to declare wars is bad. really bad. sure, if you are on the bigger side you won't see the effects, but they are there.

Just make the FSS stop nuclear anarchies and that problem is solved

The only way to then cause a regular anarchy is to GA them and cause it, most likely after a nuke (to get the best odds for causing it).

I support the idea of police to limit anarchy effects and a harsher anarchy, possibly with levels.

I made the suggestion of an NRA, as a wonder to caused nearly complete order instead of anarchy in the event of no military policing government agents.

It turned into a political battle.