Make the 50% surviving soldiers thing optional (you are free to bunker your soldiers or not), so as the defending nation doesn't end up being damaged more because of purchasing the wonder.

not too sure I understand the logic behind this, perhaps a further explanation as to why you would want to not bunker....

approved for further discussion.

Because having a smaller amount of soldiers left over can be more detrimental than not having any. Because then you can be ground-attacked on, but you have weaker ground force than before.

I was having a debate with myself the other night which was a worse wonder, FAC or FSS. I don't really know which one. FSS... is pretty useless. I have three wonders left I can possibly get. None of them do anything for me. This is one.

I don't know if the optional part of the plan that you're suggesting would do anything or not. Perhaps what would make FSS FAR more useful would be that you can get out from under the effects of nuclear anarchy in 5 days vice 7, but don't screw around with troops. THAT would be a welcome change.

http://www.cybernations.net/CNmilitary.asp go calculate how much it costs to remilitarize after a nuke with that 17k infra and 7.5k WRC tech and then say the FSS is useless


@Kyle: depending on whether your opponents has deployed the current day or not he may be able to get in 2 succesful GA's after a nuke if you have a FSS (since 50% soldiers is unlikely to hold him off) so you may want to cancel that effect as a whole in order to get away with only 1 defeat alert per day which is less than 2-6+ ground attacks.
This depends on a few factors though, but i think letting the owner activate/deactivate that particular option is a good thing

Make it so that

# Fallout Shelter System - $40,000,000 - Allows 50% of your defending soldiers to survive a nuclear strike (also returns deployed soldiers home and prevents instant anarchy from the nuclear strike), reduces tank and cruise missile losses from a nuclear strike by -25%, Reduces nuclear vulnerable navy losses and aircraft losses by 50%, Reduces nuclear anarchy effects by 1 day. Requires 6,000 infrastructure, 2,000 technology.


That would make it somewhat worth buying.

Well losing that deployment's not a good thing, but if you want FSS to cancel the nuclear anarchy make it way more expensive imo.

It is a good thing, because it means that you will always have MORE defending soldiers in all situations except when you have 0 deployed soldiers, instead of less.

It won't cancel the nuclear anarchy, just regular anarchy.

I always go aggro so that leaves me with very few soldiers deployed.
The good thing about this (and it's one of FSS's pros imo) is that if they stay deployed you can try to nuke your opponent, get a few GA's in then redeploy and get a defeat alert in too and kill off the rest of your deployment on another opponent.




Then what's the point? D:

You can still spy at half cost, and declare wars? I don't think it's a major improvement.

The OP I like – sometimes you want to turtle and it doesn't make sense that a wonder will actually result in you losing a lot more in those circumstances.

I think the bigger problem here is that having a wonder protect your soldiers is not beneficial. That's just straight up dumb, we need to make it so the FSS protecting your soldiers is beneficial, without messing up the current defeat alert script.
I propose we reduce nuke soldier damage to 75%, so that if you get nuked without an FSS you still keep 25% of your soldiers and can get raided. With an FSS nuke damage to soldiers would be reduced to 25%, so you would keep 75% of your soldiers and actually have a chance at beating off ground attacks.
This way you would be open to getting attacked after a nuclear strike regardless and the FSS would perform it's desired function, protecting you against attacks post nuke. Also having a nuclear attack auto-turtle you doesn't make very much sense as it is.

So far as I can tell the only way to get benefit out of the FSS is at the end of a war, that you get out of nuclear anarchy early, otherwise, not much of a benefit from my POV.

One of the drawbacks behind a nuclear war is that in the defending position after 25 hours you have no more offensive war declarations in the ranges that matter aside from your nations in peacemode.

A FSS that made it so you could stop regular anarchy would mean you could possibly actually declare offensive wars in a full scale nuclear war (perhaps).

that's an interesting tack. If so, then I would fully support this change. Good thinking going on there...

Nuclear anarchy prevents declarations no? If you made it so nuclear anarchy didn't prevent declaring war, that would be interesting.

Also sometimes you want to keep your deployments, especially if you had good odds one day against an opponent who isn't being attacked by others and is inactive, you'll likely have a good amount deployed in relation to their count after the battle to have good odds the next day and not have to use the next day's deployment to hit them.

Problem can easely fixxed. If a nation have a FSS and is nuked, all deployed soldiers come back to the nation, so you have a defence against ground attacks.

Besides Nuclear Roguery, the FSS is not of any use at all. (besides the -1 Day of Nuke Anarchy and the reduced Naval and Aerial losses) It should either protect Soldiers 100% or 0% and simply reduce Land/Tech/Infra damage.

It's good whenever someone turtles with aircraft/navy only in a nuclear war.



Read what I suggested above





Well, my understanding is that regular anarchy prevents declarations, but "nuclear anarchy" also causes a regular anarchy when you are hit with a nuke, so in effect yes it does prevent, but only for the first three days.

Getting nuked almost always will reset your deployment to 0 anyways so that point is moot.

That's not a good reason for a wonder to exist at all.

What? You mean the fact that the wonder is so bad that it only helps in one specific situation, in which you are getting gangbanged anyways so you are losing tons of infra and NS?

It's the Military Wonder equal of a FAC.

FAC is totally useless.
FSS isn't but can backfire on you in certain situations and helps way less in a gangbang type war as opposed to an evenly matched one. Also it's generally way more usefull for big nations with lots of tech and WRC's, where military costs get really big.

Not really.

The FAC is completely useless whereas the FSS is at least usable in some situations.

At least the FAC can't harm you.

You have a point, which is why both FAC and FSS have threads about how to improve them.

Making an ordinary nuke leave some soldiers is an interesting idea that would make the FSS much more useful as a side effect.

This OP is still relevant.

A very good addition would be, if a nation have FSS and is nuked the soldiers and tanks automaticly comes back to home. This makes the wonder much more usefull.

It wouldn't just make the FSS more useful.. it would make it one of the best wonders. Anyone without a FSS would surely be defeated in ground battles after a nuke.

As an aside, the fact that it would be advantageous for MORE of your soldiers to be lost in a nuclear strike seems a bit messed up

I do think however that having a "soldier protection" switch on the FSS would be awesome for it (if on, it functions like it does now, if off, it functions the same except all defending soldiers are killed and deployed soldiers brought home like a regular nuke).

I would support this idea.

This is actually an interesting idea, wonder how i missed it the first time :V

I wasn't a fan of the FSS, but I got one anyway before the current war started. After having it I have to admit that it is pretty awesome. Most people attack at update, and if you're on at that time, it's great. The real benefit is that your deployed soldiers don't get called home.

Having fought a couple of guy's with FSS's I have to agree that it is a very useful wonder if used well.
I was so impressed I went out and bought one

I really like this suggestion. It really doesn't make sense that losing more soldiers is a good thing.

losing more soldiers is not necessarily a good thing, it is a different thing. I think that the penalties for having an FSS are outweighed by its benefits. I was a hater once, but now am a believer. I posit that anyone who does not have an FSS should not !@#$%* about its downside until they have experienced its awesomeness firsthand. I think that it is the one hidden, military gem. Don't change it. Don't change the rules for people getting nuked. Once you have BOUGHT the wonder, and you have EXPERIENCED its effects, come back and talk to me about it. We'll see if you share the same opinion afterwards.

For clarity's sake, I reiterate: I once agreed that FSS was all but useless and even worse, damaging. I then bought one, and quickly changed my mind. It is teh awesome.

Again it can work against you easily if you're not on when you get nuked (if your opponents only did attacks at update it's their fault). I have seen quite a few cases where FSS worked against their owners (ender here can confirm). My point is a slight change to the FSS would really decrease the odds of it working against you.

I agree with this, but I recognized the benefits of the FSS before buying it

The problems that exist with it still do however.

When nuked, you should be defeated regardless of whether or not you have the FSS, as it is silly otherwise. That is the fundamental problem with the FSS - getting nuked, then defeat alerted in the same day. It goes against the spirit of how both those currently function.

In a week of war I think the FSS hurt me two days, but, it's hard to say how much navy/AF costs it saved me since I almost never lost AF battles defensively (in addition to letting me keep a deployment every day for the most part).

Also this (more specifically: gives even MORE space for the FSS to work against you, and this was added after you got out of the war >.>

we can agree to disagree if you like. Yes, if people only attack at update, then that's their fault. However, understand that if you don't have an FSS, than all your troops are gone, anything deployed gets called home, and you can still get hit. The real joy of an FSS is if you are active at the same time as an opponent, then you can still march forward with your soldiers instead of getting an instant recall and getting to do nothing for the day. For the downsides of the FSS, I am willing to put up with them in order to keep fighting.

The reason why I would not get the FSS now is that you can be nuked and get defeat alerted OR nuked and unable to max deploy (like your opponents who also get nuked).

This recent update actually is by far reason enough for me to recommend never purchasing the FSS. I have in fact been debating the idea of decommissioning my FSS as the ability to take a defeat alert and the inability to max deploy (unless you happened to take the defeat alert) after being nuked really give it a lot of drawbacks, to the point where it really will hurt you against good opponents.

Pretty much. If it's made so that a nuke always counts as a defeat alert regardless of whether you have an FSS or not, it would actually be a decent Wonder. As it is, it's too exploitable by your opponents. Something that gives you an advantage over poor fighters and a disadvantage against superior fighters isn't something I want.

I never liked the FSS, for much as the same reasons listed previously. In a nuclear war, it basically guarantees all your defensive GA will be loses.Plus, when you launch a nuke, your not doing it for the military damage, rather, your doing it to knock your opponents infra, land and tech down.

Rather, a better alternate for the FSS to make it worth while its price, is this :



Now that would be worth buying. Instead of having guaranteed looses in defensive GA, your deployed troops now return home and they gain a defensive bonus should you of been hit and it reduces technology loss by 40%. Which that alone would be worth buying as we all know how much technology gets soaked up from constant nuke warfare.

As long as that 20% defensive bonus doesn't stack, or so it only lasts til the next update.

It doesnt, it lasts from whenever you were hit by a nuke, up until the next update.

boosting defense of your remaining soldiers is a valid idea. And having the 20% bonus last for 24 hours from your last nuke would be meaningful, instead of just until update. I think that lower the tech damage from a nuke would be awesome, but I'm not holding my breath.

I agree with any change to make FSS better without requiring you to be rediculously active.


I particularly like the idea of just making it so no matter what 25% of soldiers survive a nuke, FSS increasing to 75%. That there would make a huge difference.

Adding on a 20% defensive bonus for 24 hours would also be nice. Though really that should happen upon getting nuked either way (Do YOU want to be the one charging into an irradiated zone?)

I think the 75% survival rate with FSS and 25% without it makes sense. In reality, many nuclear weapons are designed to be used for tactical purposes, so to have them set you up in game for ground battle victories would make sense. Having the FSS take away much of that ground battle advantage would then make it quite handy.

I agree with this one. I might even buy that wonder if that were the case.

I strongly disagree with this. It would turn nuclear warfare into a brainless "nuke -> CM -> CM -> bomb -> bomb -> GA -> GA" scenario. Right now there are tons of tactical decisions that need to be made with regards to nuking. Like what to do if your enemy has nothing deployed. Or how to make good use of a nuke even if your enemy has more forces deployed than defending (there are several things you can do in such a scenario). As someone who has launched over a hundred nuclear weapons in this war alone and taken a few dozen as well I love the current system, it gives you many options if you know how to fight a nuclear war. There should be a different way to make the FSS useful.

EDIT: Come to think of it, the FSS in its current form also ruins the tactical aspect of nuclear war. I think the wonder needs a complete overhaul.. Wars need to be spiced up a bit, not dumbed down.

There are plenty of options (both here and elsewhere) to do this >.<