::Classified Document::
::To: Paga Gwerra of the Dranagg Ministry of War
::From: 3rd Dranaggan Division, research corps

::Message as follows::

Development of Anti-Aircraft device has begun. Launcher system is being developed in Tunnel Subsection Gamma, Security level 7.



Currently estimates have minimal dispersal at sub-optimal atlitudes. Capacity not the Issue. Dispersal system inefficent, and conflicts with flight.



Testing of mixtures on a variety of previously collected substances from the international gatherings, and also known used materials that were aquired under normal means.

Testing is good on 19 of 30 Acids. 11 out of 30 also tested well on protected surfaces. Increasing the testing pool to 50 is being undertaken by army chemists.

New updates coming in the following weeks.


::End of Document. Burn After Reading::

OOC: I got excited when I saw acid.

OOC: And rightfully so

OOC: Vince said it all for me, lulz.

OOC: One engineer reading the memo inadvertadly burnt down a building after burning the document

::Classified Document::

Dispersal system has been corrected by means of spiral configuration, and has increased dispersal effect by 700%. Additionally it has increased maximum altitude by 21%. Better lauching system and fuel have further increased maximum altitude by a further 59%. Current ceiling is predicted at 30,000 feet dependant on payload. Research continues.

Substance testing has progressed. 9 of the substances that were found promising have been selected for the next round of testing. So far 2 have failed. One loses effectiveness to quickly, and another dilutes to fast. Possible trouble with the dispersal system on three others being worked out.

::burn after reading::
OOC: edited for spelling.

OOC: How did you edit it after you burned it???

OOC: I feel sorry for any enemy air crafts that are targeted by your acid missiles. Imagine the looks of the pilots' faces when they realize that their enemy have hit their air crafts with metal eating acid...

OOC: magic ashes pencil

Ninja:



OOC: you win a cookie for first to acknowledge my plot

OOC: Thats why you give them a small, cheap-in-comparison PKD (pocket computer device) and have it self-destruct. Think The Incredibles.

Is that cookie saturated with saturated fat, trans fat, loads of sugar, and god knows what chemicals? You do know I am a health freak.

OOC: only 100g, 50 g, 1000 g, and maybe DDT?

:: Classified Document ::

To:: Paga Gwerra
From:: 3rd Dranaggan Division, research corps

Five acids have passed for final testing.

Sulphuric
Hydrochloric
Hydroflouric
Aqua Regia
Nitric

:: Burn After Reading ::

OOC:

I rather not take that cookie, could you give me a more healthier cookie?

OOC: It take about 400ml of acid (16mol/L Nitric acid) to dissolve a coin in about 5 min. I would say, that these missile are going to be pretty much totally ineffective.

OOC: I'm going to have to agree with Vent here. It would take way too long to dissolve the metal.

BUT, if you were to find some way to make the acid a gel that would stick to the outside of the craft to make sure it has the time to melt through the metal, it could be effective, but I won't make any bets on it.

OIC: tell me oh tech gurus. what happens when you start dissolving perfect balanced turbine blades, electircal wires, fuel lines, and hydralic cable? Don't need to turn the plane to dust to send it crashing.

But, you do need to cut through armour designed to protect said items from bullets.

OOC: Tell me, please, what volume and concentration is this acid? Please. Let us assume, its 5L, at REALLY concentrated, say, 15mol/L, and for the sake of ease, its a strong acid (totally dissociates.) Now, lets assume its aluminium you plane is made out of, and we use Hydrofluoric acid.

So, the reaction is, 6HF + 2Al -> 2AlF₃ + 3H₂

So, 6 moles of HF is needed to dissolve 2 moles of Al. So, how many moles of HF do we have? 5L at 15mol/L = 75 Moles. So, we can dissolve 25 moles of Aluminum

So, how much is 25 moles of aluminum? From the Molar Mass, 26.98 g/mol that means we have just dissolved 674.5g grams of aluminum, or about two thirds of a kilogram.

At the density of 2.7g/cc, thats 249.81 cc of aluminum. Assuming a skin 5mm thick, thats a hole of area 500 cm², or a circle about 12cm in radius.

A bigger hole is made by a 30mm cannon round, and thats a much deeper wound.

Acid is not an effective anti plane weapon.

Ooc: lvn then let's say we did that to all the fan blades in a jet turbine?

OOC: First of all: You can't get 5L of acid into a jet engine.
You might get at max 100mL when that acid has been deployed by a missile, but since it is in an engine, (and hence not all hitting the same place), all it will do all of dissolve less than 1mm.

Or in laymans terms, F*** all.

OOC: LVN is right...

Go ahead; make them and waste millions. May as well get flak cannons and missiles with boom-booms in them.

OOC: Honestly I never even finished this RP yet, but since you want to argue it here is some points.

Okay plane is covered in an acid attack. The turbine blades that are milled with lasers to be perfectly balanced are etched out of balance. Bad problem number 1.

Number 2, if it contacts electrical wires its more than likely going to start destroying the outer coverings and causing shorts.

Number 3, and fuel or hydraulic line hose this happens to hit will more than likely get holed.

Number 4: MMM etched wind screen.

Number 5: If its not a sealed &#$@pit plane you've got acid gas in your cabin! mmmm yummy!

Number 6: Say, what happens when that acid starts eating into structual parts of the plane..If I remember even small cracks and such are terrible for sustainable flight..

Number 7: Hey is that gaskets, ball bearings, and welds? Har har @ them!

Number 8: say, wouldn't all these be possible at once in a worst case situation? That sounds a lot worse than a few bullet holes could cause...

Number 9: hmm, considering even if you had them lauched from the edge of the ice shelf its a LONG flight to any Point of Interest in Dranagg, so wouldn't you'd have an increased chance of something going apeballs wrong because of this?

Edit: stop looking at this as a missle spitting a spray of acid. Its going to be a cloud. I'm not trying to instantly blow up planes.

You need like, hunders of litres of acid to do that. You will never 'cover a plane'. Second, you can't hit the turbines with enough acid to do anything worth while. Third, cos the turbines are going so fast, they would be affected equally, therefore remaining balanced.


So, where are uninsulated electrical wires in a plane? (acids don't do plastics)


So, where are these lines which are less than about 5cm from the out side of the plane, and not covered in things like rubber or plastic (neither of which react with acids)


Glass and most crystals don't react with acids.


If you fly more than 10,000 feet high you have a sealed &#$@pit. So not happening.


Say, where are these which are less than 5cm from the outside?


Of course, its really easy for large amounts of acids to get into the middle of planes.


Not really. You only have 5L or so of acid.


no, because acid attacks on planes don't do anything.

(Oh and on the 5cm things? It cos 5L of acid is never going to eat more than 5cm into a plane, as acid holes are always wider than deep (surface dynamics and reaction rates))

OOC: Trying to play Devil's advocate a bit here. I highlighted the part in the first paragraph I disagree with; the acid would not hit all areas of said turbines at exactly the same time, or dissolve at exactly the same rate. If they could deliver a significant amount to said turbine I think Tahir se is right in that it might mess them up. Not that I think this is an effective weapon, if I could throw something into a trubine acid would not be myr first choice.

There ARE acids that react with glass, but I don't thin they would react well with the other things you want to dissolve. I'm don't know about the plastic or rubber.

It's an interesting idea, I assume the point was to make a weapon that does it's job even if it gets intercepted at close range? The idea to mess with the canopy is a good one though. Maybe you could make some sort of paint or epoxy missile that would would opaque the canopy, that might be of some use. Especially since he is in the Antarctic, ever try to get frozen glop off a windshield? BLECCH! /OOC

The Government of Boomtown will be happy to provide our newly constructed Baking Soda rockets to counter this dreaded device.

OOC: Go for lime. More powerful base.

We have ample supplies of baking soda left over from our "1st Boomtown Cookie Baking Competition". We sent all our lime to Diberia for use in Zombie body disposal.

OOC:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN3_Wkyl5PQ
For issue number 1. Pay extra attention after minute 4. Now imagine an Acid cloud creating numerous imperfections from etching.

numbers 2 and 3, okay so the weak sulfuiric and hydrochloric wont corrode them. What about the Aqua Regia and the Nitric? Then again if you had waited for me to do a IC rp post. I might have posted the results discovering just that issue.

Number 4: sayyyy that looks suspiciously like acid etched glass! http://www.china-glass-factory.com/Q12-chi...tched-Glass.jpg

Number 5: See answer the 7

Number 6: See answer to 7

Number 7: How does one seal a plane form the outside atmosphere...Welds and gaskets?

Number 8: Bullets are if you want to bring the plane down ASAP. I don't care if it flys on for a few hundred miles then has a failure.

number 9: Right, and thats why acid corrosion in engines is such a non-exsistant problem with some weak sulfides. http://www.amtonline.com/publication/artic...d=1&id=5565

OOC: Actually, 50L (about the max you can put on a missile) bursting into a 100m radius cloud, is 450 moles (at 15mol/L).

so, 4/3 * pi * (100m)^3 = 4,188,790,205 litres.

450 / 4,188,790,205 = 1.0742 *10 ^-7 moles per litre. Or about as acidic as tap water. This acid cloud idea is sunk.

OOC: Think about this: if its so useful as you keep defending, then why arn't modern day nations using it?

OOC: Alright, I'm going to have to butt in here. I highly doubt most planes have 5cm thick metal over a large portion (if any) of their fuselages. Planes have to stay flying, hence they aren't very solid in terms of metal. I would guess that there wouldn't be more than a few millimeters of metal to go through. The idea is by no means sound, but the amount of stuff you have to go through, isn't the problem so much as that planes can usually take some serious crap before the go down.

OOC: What I mean was that the acid would make a hole in the skin, and rather than drill into the plane, the hole would just get wider.

Say you have a metal sheet, and acid on it. A hole will form as it eats through, and it will get wider, and a small amount of acid will drip in yes, but that will be a small amount compared whats on the outside reacting to make the hole wider / larger in area

OOC: Yup, thats all true.

OOC: Which is why I used an arry of flak cannons, and effectivly creating a black wall of "flak"; aka aplane goes though the area but the sheer amount of flak destroyes the plane, especially at high speeds. Well, at least for Diberia.

OOC: I want a Mod to close this. I can't even roleplay the EXPERIMENTAL TESTING of a weapon without having to quickly find research and evidence I was going to gradually look into at a more reasonable pace.

Just because you all think it's improbable doesn't mean you just jack up my roleplay.


Maybe if I had been allowed to let it continue I might have found the information on my searches about what I would have to prove so that you WOULDN'T cry "cheater", and you know, not all experiments are destined to succed. Thank you for assuming I was going to make this be a perfectly working weapon before I even started to look futher into the idea.

OOC: I think it helps if you think it throughtly, and then put that down in the first post. Like the Atlantis one; people would be screaming at me like this if I didn't say I wouldn't get any tech from it. Go on with it. He is allowed to roleplay it. Only have issues if he does something against the laws of physics.

Please, let the poor guy finish it. As he said, "not all experiments are destined to succed".

OOC: Not physics per say, but the laws of chem. If this results in any weapon which has for effect than a large firework, its breaking them.

And if you have decided to have it fail before hand, why not note so, and then we can just see that and leave it alone. As far as I can see, Tahsir wanted this to succeed, and when he tried to use it on us, we'd go WTF, and this would have happened anyway.

OOC: 1 Then it would be rather boring and pointless to RP anything more. I could of ended with the first post and put "btw this will fail. I'm just typing for my own amusement here. Dont bother reading past this" Also if you read. I did RP failures during the project. Numerous ones.

2 Doesn't everyone want their plan to succeed until they find why it cant?

3 More than likely.

Closed on request.