My idea would be based on giving the different religions a extra bonus apart from the tradicional +1 happiness if u get the correct religion; the same as for the Government Types, that some have a +1 happiness bonus, improvement unkeep decreasement, extra soldier efficiency and so on..

Therefore i could give some examples (i do not understand all religions, so i cant give all religions a true-based benefit)

Hinduism: increace in pop (+2 or 3% maybe?), slight decreace in infra initial cost, increace in environment.

Confusionism: Decreace in tech costs (chinese ppl are VERY smart ), increace in pop, increace in natural growth.

Taoism: decreace in tech costs, increace in soldiers efficiency, +1 happiness.

Christianity: decreace in infra costs, increace in gross income, decreace in Environment.

Buddism: extra increace in happiness (+2), increace in natural growth, increace in Environment.

Islam: increace in soldier efficiency, increace in soldier count, increace in pop, increace in Environment.

Norse: increace in soldier count, decreace tech cost, decreace infra initial cost.

Mixed: increace in gross income, increace in pop.


PROTESTANT RELIGION IS MISSING ON CN.

if added: Protestantism: Increace in gross income, decreace in tech costs, decreace on environment.

Approved for discussion

Isn't protestantism included in the christianity term along with chatolics?

Protestants are Christians.

I believe that in the past, intrinsic effects for religions have been rejected on the basis of cultural sensitivity – the things you pick could easily be taken offensively.

that. if you add 'effects' for religions, people would get outrageous over 'being insulted' that their religion is "not as good/benefitial" as religion XYZ.

Forget it, not worth the trouble.

If anything, insert a system where Religious INTERACTION plays a role, lets say you get a -10% soldier efficiency penalty if you fight someone who has the same religion like yours because your people hesitate to kill their 'brethren in belief' or you get a +10% bonus if you fight people with a different religion.

Or subsystems like the Senate, just for Religions (Let all Christian Nations 'vote' for a Pope, others for whatever religious leaders they have...). They shouldnt have real impact, just symbolic means so people could roleplay their religions in CN.

But then this well end up being like governments, you know, people telling you you should never pick dictatorship and always go with monarchy. "never, EVER, pick Hinduism, always go with Islam" that's just an example. I think it's fine right now and agree with Syzygy on the roleplaying part.

Syzygy is "in alignment" with the correct path on this one. It is more trouble than it's worth to give bonuses to religions beyond the generic bonus that we currently have in game.

I think what might be more interesting is to have random event generation be tied to your religion on occasion. Something like

1) your nation has been selected as the site for the conclave selecting the next <insert religion head here>. With the increase in tourism, extra money will flow into your city...

2) a neighboring <insert religion adjective here> nation has suffered massive flooding and your parishioners demand immediate aid be sent. How do you respond to their pleas? (all variations of positive)

a] do nothing: -3 happiness
b] organize a charity event and provide several shipments of emergency food/water: +1 happiness, -$5 income per citizen
c] provide temporary shelter for displaced brothers and sisters of the faith: +1.5% pop, +40 pop density (i.e., bad), -20% land

And what would those of us who chose not to have any religion be given for events? Quite frankly, I believe religions are good as they are at the moment, No need to change anything that isnt broken.

No extra religion, preferably I would have religions scrapped from the game in total.

As previously explained, Protestants fall under the "Christianity" category. Else, you'd have to add Orthodox, Coptic, Catholic (and then) Shia and Sunni Islam, Mahayana and Therevada Buddhism, and so on... I also support Syzygy's suggestion.



Why's that? It's really nice to have religions, from a role-playing perspective.

Well from a role-playing perspective you shouldn't be forced to change your religion every so often to keep the +1 happines bonus. It would actually be better if that bonus was removed and you could declare that your population follow this or that belife without any bonus or penalty.

It does not give sense that they change religion so often.
The frequent changes in government can be explained that your people finds out that their current government isn't working and want to try something else, then they are unhappy that that government fails as well and want to give yet another system a try.

Or, you could just buy the great monument.

Actually, having the changing religions would help RP. they could just be roleplayed, and when the monument is purchased, the government could change the religion for itself. Having the constantly changing religions is GOOD for RP.

On a game scale, something should be done for it rather than just the generic happiness benefit. like what OP suggested, although Environment plays into that too heavily.

I find it a bit strange that you have to build a wonder just to get some consitency in what your people belive in.
The religion aspects need to changed in some way.

Actually, I think that it would be interesting to provide a happiness bonus on the date of a religion's specific holidays. You'd have to exclude some so that each is equal (no getting a happiness bonus for the entire month of Ramadan, for one), but it would make folks a bit more informed about RL religions if they had to keep up with the holidays in order to take advantage of the happiness bonuses.

What if having the correct religion also added +1% population and -2.5% infra upkeep? That way it would be more prominent.

Such a bonus would just make nations grow faster and it would not solve the problem, it would just make it even more important that you change the religion often.

The religion should be more or less set in stone (maybe change every 30 days or so). That way the religion you choose is something you have to stay with for a while. Then there should be religion based events that affects everyone with that religion. If an alliance chooses to all use the same religion that would mean that sometimes the alliance is stronger and sometimes weaker than avarage. These changes could be used to find a perfect time to start a war (hit the enemy while you are strong and they are weak).

Such events could be:

Holy war: +15% soldier efficiency for 5 days (a bit shorter than a full round war)

Religious hollyday: +2 happines for 10 days

Religious persecution: -5 happines for 10 days

Pacifism: Can't declare war for two days (no offensive war slots, just defensive).

Contraception: +1% population


The list could go on, it would not be events that we are used to with two options (since there usually is only one correct answer to each event anyways).
The religion change would need to be limited in some way to avoid people changing just to get the bonuses.

For once I agree with Syz. Not worth the can of worms it would open up for admin.

As long as you have the GT a meaningless national religion is one of the few ways to give a nation a personal touch without suffering penalties. In a game where all nations look pretty much the same we need more ways to do this.

Adding the religious effects sounds like a really cool and interesting idea, but there are many problems. Most likely people will just treat religions the same way they treat governments (a certain religion for certain times, eg: for war, to pay bills, buy infra, collect taxes, etc.).

That wouldn't really add much to the RP element.

And as for the current system, I would agree that making religion without an effect would be better. People would be able choose whatever religion they desire without having to worry about missing out on whatever bonuses or benefits that some other religion they don't like would have. This would be better than how it is now, where religion has virtually NO meaning, as everyone simply changes it to get happiness (whether or not they want the religion or not)

Oh yeah and what would we do with the religion 'None'?



I don't think we should make the game more politically correct just to satisfy the few people that might get offended.

I'm against the idea of having specific bonuses for religions, because of gameplay and RP reasons NOT because I worry about how much it would offend people.




I prefer the no religion bonus at all idea, but this idea seems to have a bit of merit too.

Please note that not all religions have "holidays" and "leaders".

Realy? I agree that not all religions have a spirutal leader, but surely all religions have some days or periods of the year that is more important than the rest of the days?

There are some sects that don't, but they are not very large; not celebrating and having fun tends to put people off more than attract them.

However, i still think +1 happiness for having FA deal with someone you have is good way to do things, though the the -10% solider penalty Syz would be good, however there should then perhaps be a +10% if you are facing a religion you hate (randomly determined and only you can know this, even spying won't reveal it).

This will anger many CN players, greatly (including me)...

How? If one of the religion turns out better than another one, and the "best" religion offends me, you can guess what happens.

I disapprove this suggestion.

I think better do no changes on this. Giving some religion better benefits, no i dont like that. On this moment people can choose their own religion they want. There is no difference, so its fine now.

I think better do tweaking the fac wonder for example, but thats an another topic.

Anyway this idea: rejected (in mine opinion)

I agree that using religious steriotypes to give religions benefits is not the way to go. The only thing we will get then is that everyone will use the same one (like monarchy is widely used as the best government).

It's much better to give the religion som random effects without using the name of the religion.

Choosing a religion should either not give any bonus or penalty at all (just like there is no difference in what currency your nation uses). Or the religion should be used in the same way as color spheres, with nations that are simular get's a little bonus when they interact. Such bonus/penalty could be:
* able to send 10% more aid between nations of the same religion
* soldiers 20% less effective when fighting brothers in belief.
* and so on


In this way you will actually have to think about what religion you choose instead of just changing blindely when your population asks for it.

I think that daily player interaction does far more harm in terms of offending people than the game ever will.

There should be some way to introduce some variety to the benefits received for making the "official religion" of your nation one faith versus another. It does however require a game designer with the courage to approach the subject with sensitivity. There will *always* be someone offended, even if you are just bringing up the idea of religion.



You understand that Christian on Christian violence accounts for World War I, much of World War II, and countless wars that have been some of the bloodiest in history, right? No, different religions have actually very little to do with it. Even the Crusades featured a lovely campaign that ended in Western Christian crusaders besieging and sacking Christian Constantinople.



Religion should do *something* other than be just another setting for your nation that you set for a simple happiness bonus. I don't see this however as a solution. Such centralization would actually go against some faiths.

Perhaps the best suggestion is to make Religion not specific religions, but degrees of zealotry. Even that has its pitfalls.

.......................... What?


You seem to forget that the Koreans are the most Confucious people in history, followed by the Japanese.




Aside from that: I disagree with the idea. Yes, a bit of variety is great, but the effects of the suggestion are too big.

Maybe you could have some system where the longer you have a certain religion, the greater its effects are. More people believe over time so more people will be happy with it. Also maybe we could build certain buildings likes churches or temples to increase the religions influence. Maybe give soldiers a bonus in battle seeing as how there fighting for there god(s) instead of just for territory.

Maybe he never knew.

You may note, however, that he said Confusionism not Confucianism, so what he may be saying is that Chinese people are so smart they're confusing. Which somehow decreases tech costs.

But most do, to some degree or another. And you can just make some up for those that don't! None can have Darwin Day or something.



No no no, confusionism is a religion that worships atoms in the hopes that one day cold fusion will save us all.

It was a bad idea before the bump and it's still a bad idea after the bump

I do not like the idea at all because some people will be offended and it will bring the bad kind of attention to CN. However, I agree that there should be bonuses or penalties when interacting with a nation of the same or different religion.

I'm very much against any of the suggestions in this thread. Leave religion how it is. I agree with whoever it was on the first page who said having something near meaningless like religion is nice for giving your nation a personal touch.

I swear this has been suggested before, but for the love of god implement it already.

Protestants is a run off of Christianity, so if you want Protestantism, you must include Catholicism, whatever you call that Orthodox Church etc.

why isnt adminism a choice?

Because it was a bad idea when it was suggested?



Complete ignores the realities of modern history. Remember the context of the game, which is essentially Earth since 1935 or so. Religious wars are the exception, not the rule. Nationalism by far and away is the primary consideration when nations go to war. It was be far more reasonable to give +10% bonuses to Democratic nations fighting Dictatorships and Federalism nations fighting Communist nations in that context.



First he worries about offending people then he offers something up that offends the sensibilities of Protestants. Nice.

People can roleplay their religions in CN now. Nothing prevents it.

It is disappointing that some modification to religion can't be agreed upon. Some time ago I even drew up a nice table that gave pluses and minuses to various attributes based on the faith of a nation. It was shot down as being "too much like the mods for government". Of course it was like the mods for government, that was the whole point.

At any rate, maybe the best solution is no solution and place this on the shelf while other mods to the game are being contemplated.

Adding discrete effects for religions is definitely a recipe for trouble. Only way to change the current religion system without grief is to drop it or put in a fantasy religion system.

Actually, I'm puttering with a replacement system idea, but with the need to be incredibly perfect on the concept and my general laziness my puttering is going on months now.

But it boils down to replacing religions with ethics.

I would like to point out that this thread is only 2 pages long and there are people already arguing over religious stereotypes.

Bonus for religion, bad idea.

About the *only* was something like this would work without offending people is if you scrap the idea of using existing religions and crank out new ones.

If effects are to be added to religions, I propose new religions (not from RL or RL based) be made up for Planet Bob's population to follow. The idea of religions having a larger effect on your nation is fine in theory, but there still is the issue the game "favoring" an RL religion over another.

great idea, i vote that pastafarinism is added in that case

You need to add Hellenic Polytheism to the list of religions. It's my religion, and it's freakin' awesome. You can include in the description that ducks are considered sacred animals.

i fully support this

Rejected. Closed.