I've been raided four times so far, and the arrogance of the raiders always surprises me. Each time, they attacked my nation 4 times (just before and after midnight), then sent a peace offer. Each time I counter attacked with cruise missiles, aircraft, and ground forces, then sent them a new peace offer.
After I do this the ruler sends me a bunch of "how dare you" messages. Sometimes their allies message me as well. Here's my favorite example:

Tit-for-tat battles go on for 5 days before the raider finally accepts my peace offer. In the end both of our nations are worse off than before.

My fault???? It appears that Planet Bob has developed an ideology where the raidees are considered to be acting unfairly if they choose to punish the raider. The raiding code says that they are morally obligated by the customs of Planet Bob to lie back and allow their nation to be looted, then accept peace. Just to clear: I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT THE RAIDS. I AM COMPLAINING ABOUT THE ATTITUDE OF THE RAIDERS. They believe they have a moral right not to be counterattacked. I just want to make clear that if you raid enough people, sooner or later you will come across an evil psycho nation like mine, which ignores your codes of ethics and fights back
So if you want to raid someone, cool. That's ok, no need to feel guilty about it. Just don't act all stuck up if some of your citizens notice craters where their infrastructure used to be. You started it.

It's Bobs fault.

I am a raider, always have been, both my first and now second forawy into CN. And I love it when they counterattack. much more fun than the standard attack, sit around and do nothing game. :/

Haha, "u do not understand raiding". I guess people don't realise that the raidees aren't just going to sit back and do what the raiders tell them.

Depends on the Raider...and his alliances outlook. Most raiders seem to understand that they're basically stealing and if they get hurt that's par for the course. I've been lucky enough to be hit by those who either were way out of my league at the time (ie: absolutely nothing I could do about it), or when I was able to counter-attack was cool about it.


In this situation, without knowing the 'guidelines' he's following; I'd hazard to guess that the raider in this instance doesn't understand raiding.

Bob is of course. If you want to hear some more complicated raiding stories that have happened in REC (not by me) PM me

You won't be sorry.

There's no such thing as a "legitimate" tech raid. "Sanctioned", maybe, but never "legitimate."

What an idiot, you should release the name. Seriously what an idiot, people like this make me angry.

This, if you're going to raid have some finesse, not sound like an angry preschooler.

To the op, here's to hoping you don't have to deal with idiots like that again.

This isn't the first time I've heard a raider speak of their "right" to do so. The idea that 1) we have rights and 2) those rights include the right to violate each other's sovereignty is hilarious on a couple levels.

True, there's no right needed to raid, merely the capability to.

True enough
Every raider is esentaily mugging his victim,
If his victim chooses to fight back then he shouldn't be surprised.

Tho what I find most annoying is the alliances that seem to think that counter attacking one of there raiders is an offence punishable by ZI and so dog pile the victim in further retaliation.

I love it when people fight back

Anyone want to place bets on which alliance this guy is from?

Of course Bobs. He got an explicit message from his military advisor before declaring war:



At least that is what my advisor tells me everytime.

Obviously Bob has intentionally ignored that message, so whatever happens afterwards is his fault in the first place.

Rebililion?????????????

IMO, raids that attack back are more fun than the ones who don't.

Raid was never legit in the first place Slipp, you are on the red team he had no right what so ever to raid you. If he claims his alliance allowed him too then they are making themselves a great candidate for a beating.

You're on red. I would go ahead, and bring this to the attention of the Red Protection Court.

http://pacificorder.net/forum/index.php?showforum=426

I like you.

Also, if any TORN nation ever sends someone PMs like that, please bring it to my attention (open notice) so that I can make sure they see the door promptly.

wow. i would say it is Bob's fault. raiding is an act of war, thus, if war is brought then what is he complaining about.

also, i would go with what bigwoody said. Contact the leadership of his alliance, usually that will either straighten the raider out or at least solve it without any further escalation.

This has got to be one of the most amusing comments I've seen on this forum in a long time. Thank you A "tech raid" is nothing more or less than a war for the purpose of gaining resources. Calling it a "raid" is just semantics. However, I'm not at all surprised by the raider's comments as we've heard similar (although somewhat more diplomatic) comments after requesting reparations from raiders.

Bob's a thief and deserves what he gets.

Once you attack back he should offer peace and walk away. If you keep attacking him back, then yes he does have a bit of a right to defend himself.

In a tech raid, you attack, and if he fights back, it's your fault. Let sleeping dogs lie. However, as soon as he offers peace, you should accept it.
However, he does not accept any peace offers, and fight's back, you're allowed to go all out. And face repercussions from his alliance/alliance protectorates.

It's bob fault when he counterattacks.
When a raider techraids, it's allowed to attack back. ( that my opion)
But attack back with the same attacks just ground attack.

My opinion on tech raiding?

I think it is only justified when the tech raid target is not playing the game anymore beyond a reasonable doubt. Attacking nations weaker than you just for a profit is not only cowardly but lazy. While I'm sure it would still exist today, the tech raiding problems we have now were caused by The Initiative's general acceptance of the practice. New members are often frustrated and confused when coming into the world because they can not get anywhere. They are forced into joining an alliance or getting attacked. This results in nothing like a nation simulator game, which is what it shouold be.

I could not agree more. What this raider is doing is trying to force you to play the game his way. You either join an alliance or accept your role as defenseless milk cow.

There are other alternatives.

No chance
The raided party has the right to hit back with any means he sees fit, its then up to the raider whether to continue the war or walk away with a bloody nose

It's all of our fault for allowing such piracy to exist.

Yes, I love how those who start fights expect the victim to follow some sort of chivalry that the tech-raiders made up for their sole benefit. If the victim does not oblige, then the raider goes crying to his alliance for help. Oftentimes he gets help, too.

Sickening.

And isn't it just so grand.

It's both Bill and Bob's fault, as either one of them choose to ignore peace-offers.

While some tech raiders may act like immature dolts, alliance leadership is usually more sensible. If you meet a tech raider that thinks that his is a 'legit' tech-raid and threatens you because you retaliated, i suggest getting in touch with his alliance leadership [if he is part of an alliance]. The fact that you are on red team, coupled with your willingness to raise and escalate the issue, should see them sending reps your way pretty soon.

And no, there is no such thing as a right to tech raid. Its armed robbery any which way you slice it.

I think it's Bob's fault. A raider should know the risks of tech raiding and if they BAWWW about getting attacked back by their target then they should just stop raiding. I hate people that do that, especially when they get nuked by their target and go "OMG PERMA ZI LOL".

Yeah, this is coming from a guy who raids

boogeyman summed up my thoughts nicely, when you raid you risk getting attacked back, you raid someone with nukes and they nuke you? your own fault for raiding someone with nukes.

Absolutely. Tech raiding is one of the reasons that the game is shrinking, new members have no alternative but to join an alliance. They should be able to get the hang of playing without being immediately attacked by a pack of wolves.

Its bobs fault Slipp. When I raid Ill take whatever I get; unfortunately for you you got hit by someone that doesnt realise he started it and thus he deserves what he gets.

May I suggest you dump your NONE AA and change it to something hard to spell - just mash the keyboard if you like; having an AA makes you somewhat more difficult to find on the ingame nation search as you will no longer show up as being unaligned. Whilst your on red given your nation size you will be prone to noob attacks but all the same report them to the NPO's red protection court located here - at best youll get reps and peace, at worst its highly likely youll get some military or political help with your case as long as you haven't been misbehaving.

Other than that join an alliance; as your on red already Id suggest NPO, theyre a good bunch, a little evil from time to time but a group I like none the less

Out of curiosity who actually sent you that PM? Id like to laugh at them

The escalation was both of your faults because you both made choices that the other reacted badly to. The messages were just pathetic though, likely because the guy sending them is a big baby. That said, back when I raided it would have turned into a several day war(minus the messages) every single time. No way I would have taken that peace offer after being hit with air and CMs. The only people taking that peace offer are infra-huggers.

haha, that guy is funny "you didn't have the right to". but it is technically partly Bill's fault for leaving himself open to attack...but it's mostly Bob's fault.

I am a warrior.


This is my war; to do with my nation as I please, to take the beatings as they come, and to never surrender my right to be myself. I am free, irregardless of your threats or your inconsistant bleating.

I am a warrior; I am free.

The Moment you leave Red I will be raiding you, I will raid you continual till I have all your tech and land, then I will raid you some more. Don't want to be raided, be on Red like you are, still don't want to be raided join a alliance, Bob is full of gangsters!

Bob' population was growing by leaps and bounds during the same period of time that \m/ was blatantly raiding anything not nailed down and crucifying anyone who dared complain. Your argument holds no water.

It's funny because it seems like you have no idea what you are talking about.

Edit: Damn, you're way out of my range.

When I explained how things are on Planet Bob to a new ally while we were negotiating a treaty, they observed that this is less of a nation simulation than it is a gang simulation. What sort of people are going to be attracted to that and who would be repulsed? What sort of community would this tend to build?

For our part, we in The Light Brigade consider ourselves to be a walled, heavily armed village surrounded by barbarians and civilization has collapsed.



And the rest of us shouldn't have to worry about whether our independent trading partners will suddenly disappear off the face of the Planet because they'd rather not choose between their sovereignty and their security or be hounded constantly by wimps who hide behind alliances while they loot and pillage solo players.

One reason we don't accept tech-raiders in our ranks is because we don't value their war-fighting experience.

There are currently 28,998 nations, 5,216 of them being indies. When did these number peak and how many nations were there when Planet Bob hit its zenith? How far below this peak are we now? What was going on at the time when this number peaked and what happened afterward?

Tech raiding has nothing to do with the decline in nations, this is being discussed a little in another thread actually (the FAN one I believe)

The "tech raider" in the OP is a disgrace to all tech raiders (except the #$%#s like him).

Go to the old boards are search for the "ZI Game Show" which was hosted by Savage Chief Man and enjoyed my many \m/ members.

Go to the Cybernations statistics thread, look at the numbers of people playing the game, and then explain why forcing every new nation to decide between lining up behind an alliance or death has no effect on this. Also, \m/ didn't raid everything that wasn't nailed down, they didn't have the sheer numbers do that. Come back with an effective argument please.

To top it off, one must realize that during the height of \m/'s power, we had FARK and possible other alliances (Genmay???) greenlighting.

You are a douche.

Fake edit: That's my general feeling about all raiders, though, so don't feel bad. It's stealing, plain and simple.