Table of Contents

First thing, this is not a suggestion for resources, improvements, or wonders. I read the sticky and know that they go in their respective threads. This is a suggestion on the types of suggestions made, and why they are/should not be put in the game, and what can be done about it.

At the moment a lot of the suggestions I see are all about making nations grow faster in every way possible. All the resources, improvements, and wonders are all up in the "+5% taxes" and "-10% infrastructure cost" and have no actual value to them other than increasing the amount of money people get. The same goes for other types of suggestions to actual game play. Things like a police force adds nothing to game play other than an extra feature that does nothing. The types of suggestions posted could add a whole new depth to the game if people would change from trying to increase income to changing how things work.

Resources

First of all, I know in the sticky it says not to suggest resources and improvements here, but I think this is different. The resources suggested always have to do with increasing a certain part of your nation, which is all fine and dandy, but you can only increase so much. There are already resources that increase land, lower infrastructure cost, and give you a better environment, changing the name isn't helping.

Also, it says so right on the resource suggestion thread that it's for bonus resources, not normal ones. The reason for this is that it's too late to add more resources to the game. But since people suggest them anyway, may as well suggest good ones.

An example of a resource that already exists:
Sugar: Increases number of citizens +3%, and increases population happiness +1.
Cocoa: Increases population happiness +5, increases citizen count +3%.

Now tell me how cocoa is a reasonable suggestion when sugar already exists. It's just an excuse to increase the output of one's nation.

An example of a resource that would have such an effect that it would be totally unfair to nations who don't have it:
Chemicals: Reduces infrastructure upkeep costs -10%, reduces improvement upkeep cost -10%, and lowers cruise missile cost -10%.

Look at that. If infrastructure upkeep is lowered any more, bills for a 10k infra nation will be 50k for soldier upkeep. Not to mention that if the game was full of these resources, bonuses would be obselete, nobody would care for anything else except to get their hands on this thing. Someone with sugar and wheat, normally one lucky person, would be left out to dry so people can get this infrastructure madhouse.

Another thing, some of the resources are not even resources. It's just something people throw out there because it sounded good on a friday night. Some of the effects don't make sense. Example:

Sand: Environment +1, population income +2% (used to clean up spills, snowy roads)

Sand is not a resource. Every nation has it. Also, if a nation were to have ample amounts of this sand, wouldn't that lower environment? Nothing can grow in sand, that means you produce less food, meaning it should lower population. Sure, you can make glass (don't you dare suggest glass as a resource), but there is hardly any use for sand. It would be as useful as furs. Furs, an actual resource. Not every nation has enough wildlife to have a fur market, therefore there are few nations that have this resource.

Here's a suggestion I agree with:
Natural Gas: it can reduce infra upkeep costs by 7% and decrease the purchase cost by 4% and increase happiness by .75

Natural gas, an actual resource. The effects given there may not be ideally what I would put with natural gas, but I deny anybody to say that it is not a valid resource. Props to Stalin Trotsky for suggesting this.

Bonus Resources

The same applies to bonus resources. I looked through the entire list, and the only bonus resource suggested that actually makes sense is plastics.

Plastics: raises citizen income by $5, requires Oil, and Rubber

While the effect is debatable, there is no denying that plastics requires several resources to produce, but is quite useful, AND not every dang nation in the world has it.

Here is an example of a bonus resource that makes absolutely no sense:
Clothing: (Requires fabric and tech level greater than 20) Population happiness +3

Assuming that this was implimented into the game, would it be safe to assume that nations without this resource have a population of completely naked citizens? A nation with a space program, automobiles, and nuclear weapons does not have the resources available to produce clothing.

Possible solution
I'm not sure what kind of solution there is for this. There aren't that many parts of the game that can be influenced by resources, and there are already overlapping resources. Adding more resources with effects that would totally unbalance the game isn't the solution, that's for sure. Before suggesting a resource, think to yourself, is it one? If the answer is "well, it COULD be", it's not.


Improvements

Improvements are really overlapping when it comes to the new ones people want. I'll start the same as I did with resources to show that the improvements people suggest already exist, are over-effective, and are just plain not improvements, and follow with the solution.

Harbor - $200,000.00 - Increases population income by 1%. Opens +1 extra trade slot. Limit one harbor per nation
Airport - $300,000.00 - Increases population income by 1.5%. Opens +1 extra trade slot. Limit one Airport per nation

That, my friends, is a duplicate. Almost to the exact number. .5% difference on the income, but it's just another excuse for people to make their nation bigger, faster. Another trade slot is not needed. 5 is more than enough to get you a very good set of resources.

Now, improvements that are just there to make nation building that much easier.

Excavation Site - Lowers initial cost and upkeep cost of infra 5%, lowers initial cost and upkeep of tanks 5%, raises citizen income 8%, decreases environment 1 star
costs- 100,700

Another thing that is out to reduce bills. There are already enough improvements out there that reduce the cost for infrastructure. Labor camps and factories do a fine job of this, and I think even they're over-effective. This one, specifically, would give a nation my size probably a good 500k per day, considering it raises income AND lowers bills on infrastructure. It's just not good for the game to have something this unbalancing in it.

Improvements that are a given to a nation do not need to be added to the game. By this I mean things that are basic for a nation to exist. An example:

Farm $200K: +4% pop count limit 5 per nation

Not only would having all 5 farms make your nation ridiculously massive, but it doesn't make sense. Farms, if anything, should increase the MAXIMUM size of your nation, not the amount you have altogether. Having a farm doesn't automatically bring people to your nation, but it does allow for your nation to hold more people. If I have a nation of 50000 people living off of 5 farms, those are some pretty dang big farms.

Housing: Increases number of citizens by 2%, increases population happiness by 1.
Limit 5 per nation. Cost = $80,000.00

Another example of something that is basic to a nation. Housing is infrastructure. Housing is not an improvement. When you purchase infrastructure, what do you think you're buying?

Another thing, there are too many improvements that are not national improvements, but private businesses that would be a part of infrastructure as well. Example?

Mall Happiness +3 limit 2
Jewelery Store: +3 Population Happiness. Costs: $100,000. Requires Fine Jewelry. Limit 3 per nation
Gas Station - Lowers tank initial cost 4% , increase amount of money collected by taxes 2% or 1%, limit 5 per nation, cost 75,000

Those are not improvements to a nation, those are a part of the nation's economy. Malls and other stores do not influence how the nation grows, and a nation without a gas station would cease to function.

Possible solution
Improvements should have more an effect on the direction of a nation. The improvements in play now are great ones for starter nations, things to help get your economy off the ground and help lower the crippling bills. What I'm saying is that any new improvements added should influence what kind of nation you have, not how big it is. Improvements suggestion should increase one attribute of a nation while decreasing the other. Example:

Improvement A: Increases income x%, raises infrastructure cost y%.

The rationale behind this resource is for nations who are more based around things other than infrastructure. There are nations who get to a certain level and never get passed it for several reasons. Alliance leaders generally do this because they are the main target of rogues and during wars. A different example:

Improvement B: Increases population happiness +x, lowers soldier efficiency by y%.

Ideal for peaceful nations, but a really bad idea for nations constantly at war.

Adding these kinds of improvements would force nation rulers to decide what they want to do with their nation. Build infrastructure? Collect taxes? Go to war? Having a wide variety would add depth to the game, and since a nation at my size only has room for 7 more improvements, I wouldn't just be able to scoop up every resource on the planet. Also, resources would cancel each other out if you got every one there is.

Wonders
Granted, wonders are meant for nations to get as a major bonus to them. I looked over the wonders in progress, and I have to say, they're fairly decent. I had a few minor problems with them.

Socialized Infrastructure (Draft name only)(Wonder) $40,000,000
Increases the max taxation percentage 2% for each level.

This already exists in the form of the Social Security System.

Social Security System - $40,000,000- The social security system provides benefits to aging members of your nation. Allows you to raise taxes above 28% up to 30% without additional happiness penalties.

It's the same wonder, exact same effect. Another one that wouldn't be good for the game, unbalancing it, would be the World Trade Center.

World Trade Center - $65,000,000
Adds one extra trade slot. Requires stock exchange and three banks. +$10 income. +2 happiness.

Anything that adds another trade slot would be a bad idea. At the moment, There are not enough resources to make an idea like this any good. This would be the first thing everybody got, and this would result in everybody having 14 of the 21 possible resources.

All of the wonders listed here, posted by Philotheos in #2 make sense as wonders, but some are duplicates and/or unbalancing.

Possible solution
I see no need for a solution, other than for people to try not to duplicate what already exists. At the moment there are already enough wonders to compare in numbers to improvements, so there is no need for more.

General tips

1. Try not to use similar effects in the same suggestion. Ex. Population happiness and population income. They have the same effect, so either the stack or cancel each other out. Either way, it's redundant while in the same suggestion.

2. Don't confuse improvements and wonders. Too many people suggest an improvement that's way too strong (or rare) to be an improvement, but would make a good wonder-- and vice versa. When suggesting one, be sure to double check whether it's an improvement or wonder. Ask a friend for verification.

3. Keep effects to a minimum. There are enough improvements and resources already that increase income or reduce bills. There's no need to have +5 happiness or -10% infrastructure cost anymore. Try to make yours unique or double sided.

4. Before posting a suggestion, make sure it's not a duplicate. A lot of people suggest something that has already been suggested, just another name (often very similar), or with nearly the same effects. It doesn't hurt to scan the already suggested ideas before posting your own.



Conclusion
Suggestions made at this point in the game's development should not be based around advancing the size of nations, or the pace at which they grow at. The resources are set in place, since any new addition would mean only new nations can get them, and they would be hounded like mad by every dang person in the game to get a hold of them. Bonus improvements may be able to stack to create new ones, but it would be difficult to impliment without unbalancing the game.

Improvements, on the otherhand, should not be based on the same things as resources. They should have a cause and effect relationship with the nation, adding one thing while subtracting another. This would remove the idea that every nation is exactly the same after a certain point of its growth and contribute more towards individuality. Warring nations can improve their nation by buying war improvements, but this will decrease other things such as income and happiness. The same goes for the peaceful nation, increasing happiness while decreasing military efficiency, and perhaps productivity.

Not everything new to the game should be created to make it easier. In fact, at the moment, the game is far too easy. The worst that can happen to you is you get a nasty event that makes your nation less amazing for a month. New suggestions should include new ways to mash and destroy nations, be it directly from another nation, or by natural game disasters. Events shouldn't be isolated to a single nation, but possibly to an entire group. Say aluminum is found to be carcinogenic, that resource should have a -x% population for a certain amount of time while scientists can come up with a way to counter that. Well, that wasn't a serious suggestion, merely an example of ways to add negative effects to the game that effect groups of people (in that example, those with aluminum), temporarily, while others may profit from it.

You sir, are right on. I hope everyone takes the time to read this.

Very good post Kane. Hopefully we'll see some real thought put into those suggestions now.

I completely agree. This is a very thought out "how to make a suggestion" guide. Perhaps sticky this?

A good post.

I really like the suggestion about improvements that actually gives you penalties on some things.
Maybe we should add a rock, paper, scissor system so that one improvement was good at only one thing and bad at everything else?

I allso fully agree that more trade slots are not the way to go. I would actually like to see that two trade slots were removed from the game, that way you would have to change your resources often depending on what you where planing on doing next.

That would work if some trades were not near impossible to come by.

Great guide, I vote for a sticky!

It's stickied now.

This sticky has been brewing in my mind for the longest time now, and instead of just making another thread, i'll just post here instead. I don't know what a thread talking about "lets brainstorm about new ideas to change the game/make changes to the game" would actually achieve.

Sometimes people don't think suggestions work because "it'll take too much work to code it" or whatever silly excuse , but other than the people actually working, I , like many other people, do not know the current "workforce" or "power" behind CN. No way to gauge it , etc. But that's besides the point.

CN has been stagnating for quite a long time. I find it amusing that alot of people like it that way. If anything, this "game" is a "casual" game, and yet, the people that are involved actively wouldn't want it any other way. I mean, it takes over 300-500 days to get "large" if you do not receive any help. This doesn't make any sense. A casual game that requires the user to play for a year more or less to get "big" , yet everyone thinks the game is "progressing too rapidly" . That's just something else that I found interesting about the mindset of players.

No, what CN needs , just like from the sounds of it of what the OP is saying, is a serious change. We need something interactive, change CN into a pseudo-intellectual "living , breathing thing" . That's what we need.

I mean, really. Each player is in charge of a nation right? Do we actually do anything a leader actually does? It's more like playing mayor in Sim city.

You hit a few radio buttons to establish your government position, our version of "war" is numbers and drop down boxes, and that's it. There's nothing else. It's extremely, extremely shallow, and leaves little to the imagination.

Think about it. No , seriously, just think about it. You're pretending to be the president, vice president, and GOD of your little virtual america.

What are you governmental plans? Uh oh katrina happened, how do you respond? You responded too late, the state is devastated, and people are angry. Now what? You say oh whoops well lets just throw enough money at it, that'll fix it! Wrong ! That's just not the way the world works. That's not how a nation works at all.

You need planning, you need a strategy, you need the mind of an architect to control the flow and actions of your nation. People have a voice, they voted for you , after all, didn't they? How else are you controlling the funds being delegated to create roads and new housing?

If it was me, I'd raise minimum wages by 5 times over. Immigrants would flock to my nation. I'd allow them to come , but spend untold amount of money to make them speak my language, learn how to drive, and teach them the law, and as a little reminder "if you screw up, it's twice as worse for you since you immigrated here and still aren't legal just yet". People would flock to my nation like crazy. They'd have the funds to stay, forget going back to where they come. I'd lower the cost of living to make it affordable, and subsidize it. I'd lower taxes so people can invest more money into the economy and the vicious cycle would follow. More jobs would open, people spend more.

But there isn't any of that. People don't exist. They're just a number. Am I really asking for a sim city on a national scale? Who knows ?

If people actually wanted a nation simulator, it's not being simulated enough. If you want a change, that's your change right there.

Set down laws. Communism? It's not actually communism, it's just a label on your nation.

There aren't any crisis to respond to, there's no way to actually "screw up" bad enough to cripple a nation. You want to enable martial law? Too bad, you can't ! There's no drop down box for it!

The entire nation is in a depression. Your economy grew too fast, and it bursted like a bubble in a very unstable manner. You experience the great depression for the next 10 years. What? DIdn't see that one coming? Your "New Deals" aren't good enough!

But wait, I know how to deal with this! I have a set of solutions! What could have been the great depression in your nation was just a depression that lasted a mere half year. That's it! You responded effectively, decisively, and in a timely manner to prevent a major calamity. Wall street hails our great leader.

Happiness. I must say that's pretty neat, but it ends oh so abruptly. Just enough improvements, and you'll never have to worry about happiness ever again.

That's like saying "throw enough money at people and they'll be happy enough" , which you might say "actually, if someone threw enough money at me every day i'd be pretty happy" but you aren't throwing money at people, all you did was buy some improvements and everyone is permanently plastered with a smiley on their faces that lasts for eternity. That's not how people work. Bush was doing good, everyone loved him, and then everyone grew "war weary" or whatever and now the percentages for "do you think bush is doing a good job " is decreasing.

It could be deeper than that. You can't just have "everyone loves you" there's always going to be people that hate you. You should have instead " 70% people think you're doing a great job , 25% think you're doing terrible , and 5% is 'other' " which that 5% could break down even further.

People's vision of you, what they think of you, is always changing. 1 small screw up is all it takes to destroy your image. But image isn't everything. It's all about what you do. Eventually everyone that's just infatuated with just your image will fall into that "25% hate you " category and the rest will see how great you're doing and how good your nation is developing thanks to your plans.

I could go on and on for days but all i'm really saying is there needs to be some major changes to the core of CN to make it more interesting on a daily basis.

It can still be your casual "check once a day" game, but it can be much, much deeper than that. I firmly believe it can still be casual all the same, but deep at the same time.

That was the most deliciously angry post I've ever read, and it captured the essence of what I'm trying to say. Yes, this was about improvement and resource suggestions, but apply that to all kinds. Most of the suggestions I see are about people trying to make the game easier, more convenient, or grow their nation faster. That shouldn't be what people focus on in a game like this. At the moment, alliance politics is where the game is at, but for those who aren't so much in to dealing with others and just let the alliance leaders deal with it, they're left with nothing.

New suggestions, at this point in the game, should not be about changing what already exists, but should be based around adding completely new things to the game. The most recent thing I can think of is spies. A small detail that only about half of the game uses, but it's something small nations aspire to get and large ones use strategically. It probably started out with somebody complaining about the war system, how certain things are "unfair", but all it takes is one mind to think of an idea to correct this "unfairness" without messing with the fundamentals of the game.

New ideas, new concepts. Not new ideas, old concept.

yeah, I just wonder what the admins/mods think about drastic changes to the game. Honestly I dont think more than half the population care about ACTUAL changes like you and I describe.

They probably just go "meh, i'll just surf that forums" buy some infra, and log out. That's it. That's kind of boring when you look at it like that. But eh, what can ya do , right?

I agree with the both of you. There havebeen several good suggestions to make religion, government type and positions much more complex and deep, but it seems they have just died down. An idea I have is global events where team senitors decide on the outcome, and that effects the entire team. In fact I think the whole color team thing should be completely rid of, and could even replaced with government types (so you trade with other communist nations, etc). I'll post a thread on this tomorrow or sometime when I get the time.

Something else I don't like is how you can change things daily (etc trade partners, government types, positions etc). A nation can't do this. I mean it should be every month or couple of months, so long-term strategising is required. There should be NO ONE BEST WAY to play this game. New nations should be able to pick a variety or routes to take their nation into different directions. Again though, I'm going off on one.

I've been screaming for something like this for 200 days. All the game is about is numbers. So unlike NationStates, it makes you see red.

If I'm a dictator of a country, I should be able to change tax-rates to 100% (with negative on happiness of course) have military parades in my honour (to boost morale and acceptance of my current wars) and many many many other things.

Start out small. Don't scream out "This is impossible!" just because it would take some time to code it all. Small changes to the realism of the game might do wonders.

The game might need a "Public Opinion" meter, like happiness but more about what some groups of people think instead of a number that grows if you buy a church.

Great post, you might want to put a little tl;dr in the beginning tho.

Instead of Lead, Gold, Gems (Diamonds), Iron, and Silver, they should be listed as Minerals. Having it listed as Minerals would allow for a whole lot of less suggestions about adding resources. Would focus more on adding bonus resources. We pretty much already have this already as a resource but it has the name Spices since a number or resources that people suggest fall under the spices category.

TL;DR. Change Lead, Gold, Gems, Iron and Silver to the name Minerals I'm sure it would balance out things. But minerals would flood the market if this were added >_>

Edit: Damn I keep posting things in wrong locations, meant for it to go in the Resources thread.

Actually, it wouldn't have to do nothing. Separating soldiers and police force would add a little more planning to the game as well as make another way for nations to be different, since they'd have to balance between police and soldiers (or they could make both high or both low). As you hinted at in your "possible solution", nations are too similar and new suggestions on resources, improvements, and wonders ought to help make different types of nations more successful.



Just try insulting someone who has a bigger alliance than you.



Different types of public opinion meters would be the best I think. There might be ways to raise one, but it would often come at the expense of another. I haven't given much thought as to what they would be, since it doesn't have much of a chance of happening.

well thought out a good guide thanks =]

I disagree with your reasoning. Are we then to assume that it is possible for a nation with a space programme and nuclear weapons to not have automobiles? steel? microchips? No. It simply means that it's industrial specialty/focus does not include automobiles/steel/microchips.

Very good guide and great responses.

Many (Okay, all) alliances have 'Nation Building Guides' and 'War Guides' or whatnot. Although this helps new nations to understand the game and it's mechanics, nations should not be able to read from the same guide to learn how to run their nation. When this happens, nations are just cookies cut from the same mold, just in different stages of cooking and different frostings. These 'cookies' need to be able to be formed to the player's choosing, depending on what they like.

The suggestion about good/bad attributes in improvements is a fantastic suggestion, 100% agree. Too many of one improvement could also be bad, so nations have to decide if this isn't right for their nation. For example, each stadium you have over 3, people's income is reduced (Spending too much time at the game).

Events are okay too, but shouldn't be going for a static amount of time and then quit. Oh no! Terrorists have our country's hostage! I guess this crisis will be over in a month though. Really? Hostage situations can last for over a year!

I also liked the idea about bonus resources creating more bonus resources. Some bonus resources should be bad also. Sure, Fast Food and Beer make your people happy, but wouldn't that make them fat too? Obese Population: -2% Citizen count, requires Fast Food and Beer.

ADD MORE DEPTH!!

Well, I planned on that being one or two lines, but oh well.

Hur, never thought of that. It sure would keep people from loading up on the best resources and screwing over the unlucky people without the set

Negative Bonus Resources? hmm, that would be an excellent idea. You should totally make a thread suggesting that, or I might steal your idea

EDIT: Of course that would need the addition of a few more resource combos to be interesting enough.

Defiantly a thought to consider...

Go ahead and make a topic, just remember to credit me when it gets implemented

good job. i have read alot of nonsense posts, and i also know now how to make a good post. thumbs up!

I agree with the negative bonus resources.

How about the Automobiles? Shouldn't we add a negative environment effect to that bonus resources because cars pollute. We will need more bonus resources and resources to fully add in the negative bonus resources.

Anyways, who is rejecting or accepting new suggestions? It seems like CN isn't getting much new features lately...

o/

A very very good post!

I think the one doing that is this 'Admin' guy I've heard of. Of course, quality suggestions means better ideas and less of his time looking over things that won't work.

And Automobiles require Oil which already dings your environment; that's the reason they pollute in the first place.

The 'tradeoff' improvements sound interesting. A few already exist to some extent (Border Walls, Labour Camps, Guerilla Camps come to mind). Maybe these can be used as a rough guide as to what can be done, especially for those who prefer butter over guns. Not quite sure what would make it balanced, but it's an idea.

And no, I'm not going to give my thoughts on better things here; that's what the actual forum and subforums are for!

What's being suggested in this thread is exactly what the game needs to develop. There needs to be a balance between many choices being available to rulers to affect their nation whilst also not making the game too immediately complex for new members. Maybe certain new options could become available after a certain period of time.