* Nation: Exxon
* Ruler: SpoiL
* Nation Link: http://cybernations.net/nation_drill_displ...ation_ID=151945


I completely agree with the censoring of the foul words. I was raised with these words being wrong to use. Anyone who did use these words would get the cold shoulder and wouldnt have my respect. I dont think anyone should have to be subject to hearing or seeing them and certainly not thinking them. When reading someones post with the "wtf, omfg, lmfao, gtfo, etc.." phrases, I am forced to read the phrase intended in my head. Id like to see these phrases censored as well.

hm?

Policy discussions belong in the main Moderation forum. iMove.

You might do better to just avoid the internet entirely. Society as well. Best way to shield yourself from the evil words.

Seriously, though. What will we need to censor next? Darn? Heck? Fark?

Trouble is, lmao could be considered offensive, but is mainstream Internet slang. As is wtf.

Hide in a corner with a blindfold and earmuffs on.

That will work.

In other words, no.

I can't say I agree with this or that I even understand what problem you have with it. Is it that bad to hear a "bad" word in your head?

Whats the reason for censoring the other words then?


Exactly..



the a in lmao isnt that bad

Everyone please keep in mind to only post if you have something of substance to add about the policy change suggestion, don't bait/chide as that doesn't add anything to the discussion. The rules are more strictly enforced in this forum because we really do want lucrative input here.

How many people actually realize what lmao stands for, I just had to really think about it to remember it. what the &*%@ (censored by me )= wtf, so I agree that if you are going to censor the f word, you should censor the acronym that represents it.

The only problem is the constantly changing dimensions of internet slang, so new words will be invented. Also, there are a lot of different words out there, and censoring everyone would be hard.

I see you take issue with the "f" used in those acronyms. These acronyms are meant to express emotion. What the individual letters stand for aren't important. You can easily say, "what the Fark," in your head. Or, "Oh my Farking God." But wtf or omfg are meant to express shock. Lmfao is meant to exspress laughter. Though the individual components can be considered offensive, those components are arbitrary and can be replaced with any f-word or a-word. The slang is not meant to offend in the same way outright swearing is meant to offend. If you take offense, simply change the offensive components when you read the word.

Do we censor the letter F next?

I can come up with a dirty acronym for almost any word. Any alliance name, too.

Full words are censored, but we can't censor what happens in your brain.

Yes but these ones are common. Thus everytime someone says wtf..the words the letters represent are read.

Which can very easily be, what the fudge? as one of my friends has an annoying habit of saying.

They do not have to be nasty words.



And while we're on the subject, there are more serious issues with the word filter in that it leaves certain words in.

Want to PM me a list?

I wish I had the habbit of saying fudge instead..or simply reading the letters but regardless the words are their. People always try to play around the censoring. ie "Fuk", F.*.*.*, etc..

While I personally hate the use of the "f word" or "gd" or anything of the like, I don't have a problem with "wtf", "lmao", or anything of the like. Why? Well, for several reasons:

Even though you are "forced" to read "wtf" as the sentence it's meant to abbreviate, to eliminate the use of these phrases because they remind you of something you don't like, is a bit over-reaching. Yes, we all know what they stand for, but I would much rather see someone posting them rather than the actual word. I think the mods and admins of this board are taking a stand against the use of hardcore language by not even allowing some words to be said at all, even once.

Another thing that comes into play here is, this forum is run by many people. Admins, mods, and the like. It isn't run by our moms and dads, who have brought most of us up teaching us that it is improper to use certain words. I know, because my mom taught me the same thing. But, once you venture out from under that "wing of protection" (not necessarily meaning to move out of the house, but doing anything outside your home and not having your parents with you), you will have one of two choices: 1.) Adapt. This doesn't mean you have to "do it because everyone else is doing it", but you'll either have to tolerate it, ignore it, or come to terms with the fact that not everyone makes the same decisions you do, including the use of foul language, or 2.) Walk away. If something goes against your core values, and you don't believe you should be around it, then walk away from it. Say "this isn't something I want to be a part of".

Unfortunately, the internet isn't as kind. There are so many people on the internet, and more likely than not, if you don't agree with how they talk, what they talk about, things they do, etc., you're either going to have to put up with it or leave. On the internet, you either tolerate/ignore the things that people do that you don't like, or you find somewhere else to go. It's a show run by the majority, not the "morally correct" (as most people who don't curse don't do so because of the types of morals they have)

Long post short, abbreviations for various language is widely accepted, and a social norm. If you're talking to someone one-on-one, you can always request that they not use that sort of language around you, and click "ignore" if they do. But, don't go into a public place (a very public place, the forums are) and expect everyone else to hold themselves to your standards.

(As far as evasion of word filters, definitely report them. If a word is in a word filter, and you have to insert asterisks (*) to get around it, that's against the rules and is a blatant attempt to defy them.)

I am a big boy. I can take being cursed at. But censoring the acronyms along with the word seems only consistent.

I know those who uses the acronyms wont like it. Some wont care, some will. It isnt a matter of how bad the word is or how lightly it is used. For instance the word Ra*e. I think censoring these along with the related acronyms keeps the game respectable and clean. Im talking only the real profane ones. F*** is just a dirty disrespectful word wherever and however it is used.

My problem with this is that some people use the acronyms for different things. For instance, OMFG is usually construed as Oh my <censored> God. Yet there is an alliance named Ordinary Men Fighting Giants. Some people make WTF "What the frick" (which admittedly is very close) and lmao as "laughing my arse off". Those aren't offensive, it's only offensive when you insert the words that you wish. Therefore in my opinion these acronyms should not be banned.

I add my support to the No Censoring Acronyms side. Excellent points have already been raised and solutions offered (e.g. expand 'f' to 'fudge' if you find it necessary) but I'd like to point out that acronyms that include profanity are part of accepted usage, with SNAFU* being a common example. You'll find them used in such bastions of buttoned-down media as U.S. network news and political speeches.

As we're finding, censorship is a slippery slope and once you start there's always examination of the line. Censor acronyms and the result will be forum members pushing usage ever further, both unintentionally and purposefully. Start adding new classes of things to censor and it will encourage calls from other sensitive parties to add further restrictions.

Additionally, with more rules comes more work for the mods. It won't be as simple as merely adding to the auto-censor wordlist, as new usages will constantly creep in. Assuredly, there would be requests to evaluate whether some letter in a jumble is meant to represent a profane word. It opens a whole realm of judgment calls that would be a recipe for conflict.

Let's keep censorship to the absolute minimum required.

*Alert: This link connects to a lexigraphic discussion that some people may find, err... graphic.

People use acronyms so as not to cause offense the fact is gtfo and wtf aren't nearly as harsh as the full versions. Also as a larger person the F in LMFAO means fat to me, I use it to describe how I feel at the time.

Yes it's true that people shouldn't have to be offended but the fact is people aren't warned for offensive opinions because they are opinions and because something stands for words that you don't like, doesn't mean people shouldn't be aloud to use them.

If you know what the acronyms mean and what the words are then you're old enough to deal with them being there

I agree with NO censoring acronyms.

If you find it offensive, think to yourself "What the Fudge" or "Get the freak out." You have the capability.

These acronyms are internet slang, to avoid them would requite you to avoid the internet in general.

The acronyms do not carry the same weight as the actual word spelled out does. And because it only uses the first letter, you can easily substitute the F-bomb with any number of other words.

Furthermore, their censorship is impractical, because it would have to censor the entire phrase the acronym means. When reading the forums, seeing jumbles of symbols like "@#$%" generally means that someone has spoken a swear word, and depending on it's usage, that can start to give the user a bad reputation. Censoring acronyms in the same manner leads to the same bad reputation being passed along for slang that is almost universally accepted as much less offensive than swear words.

tl;dr: Don't blame your dirty thoughts on us. You have the power to censor these things mentally. It's not explicit, and should be allowed.

Then uncensor the word entirely. No. Censoring isnt about saving your reputation. If you are a disrespectful person, youll be seen as it if you use profane words or not. Mods have the power to censor these things. Those who use these words have the power to not use them.

When someone post porn on the forums, I also have the power to look away. Same logic your using.

This isnt about me personally. Again ill say, I am a big boy. If the spelled out word is censored, then acronyms specifically meant to say it should also be censored. It is consistent. (Gtfo, omfg, lmfao, wtf, stfu, etc..)

^^^ This argument could be used to "justify" many things that are instead forbidden by this board's rules.
As such, this argument is by default invalid and it can't be used to properly justify anything.

I am for banning foul acronyms, as they don't add anything nice to the environment, and they're not at any rate children-friendly.
We could do without them, thus we should.


Foul Acronyms &CN FAQ

1. Q. Are foul acronyms needed in CN?
   A. No.
2. Q. Can foul acronyms be really useful for CN?
   A. No.
3. Q. Are we sure foul acronyms are harmless for CN?
   A. No.

But see, here's the thing. It's not that it is mainstream slang, it is the fact that it is almost universally accepted as much less offensive than the spelled out words. While I believe that more advanced and formal players usually won't use many acronyms if any at all, some players do. Most of it occurs on IRC, which is outside of the staff's reach. However, that does not mean censorship is OK. IMHO, the F-Bomb itself should only be censored as a matter of courtesy to those who think such an expression of extreme emotion is somehow offensive. I don't find the F-Bomb offensive. But I know others are offended by it. However, taking it further, trying to milk it to ban acronyms which don't even mean the same as the word, which don't even contain the word (as the F can mean anything), is wrong. For example, the F in l"mfao," I read as representing "fat." That is how I honestly read it, even though some people see the F-bomb. That's not my problem, it's their problem, and I do not believe I should be censored because they think it means something "dirty."

CN isn't a "nice" environment, it is a harsh political environment. It is not just kids who play this, many older mature people do as well. And acronyms ARE a child friendly way to say things. If a child never heard the F-Bomb before, they would have no way of knowing the "f" could stand for the F-bomb, and even if they do, they might not figure it out. If they were taught to say "Fudge" they will read "What the Fudge." Fact is, due to the nature of the letter F in these acronyms, the word the F stands for is left entirely up to interpretation.

Absolutely not. First off, WTF and OMFG are the acronyms of alliances. Second, the point of a wordfilter is to protect our community's younger members who don't know those words. If they don't know the word, they won't know the meaning of the acronym. Third, just pretend it says "What the fudge" or something.

-Bama

This is where people need to learn where the line is. Come on people, you're not 6 years old. You know that swearing is not the same thing as porn. Please don't even attempt to say they're related on the "shouldn't be seen online" scale. First off, porn is, by law, not suitable for anyone under the age of 18, and I assure, there are more than a handful of less-than 18 year olds on this forum. It is not against the law for a minor to view foul language on the internet.

Secondly, Sparqs hit the nail on the head: Let's say you ban these "offensive" acronyms. If so, then I expect all acronyms to be banned from these forums. NPO can stand for something offensive, if I really want it too. Who gets to make the final decision on what an acronym stands for? The person reporting? The person saying it? A mod? Also, I'd expect to see the words "heck", "dang", and "shoot" removed from these forums as well. Might as well be saying the words, right? Let's say that ALL these words and acronyms are bad. People will find ways to make it work. And, again, as Sparqs said, new words/acronyms will come up.




This is the part that actually made go "what???".

Can foul acronyms be really useful for CN?
Useful? Well, if we're talking about necessity and usefulness:
*Get rid of forum smilies. If I want to know how you feel about a particular subject, I'll read your post.
*Get rid of avatars. I don't need a picture to associate with your post, I have your forum name.
*Get rid of signatures. What do I care what alliance your in? If I absolutely must know, again, I have your forum name, I'll go look it up in game.
*Get rid of the water cooler. What do I care what you do in your daily life? I'm here to play a game (and yes, I can say that, this is not an IC thread).

I say all this to make a point: You cannot go out into "the world" and say "Please don't expose me to 'this', I don't like it". If it bothers you that bad, you make a habit of staying away from it. As far as "usefulness", if you want something that's "useful", go to a library.

Wut?

Also, if the acronyms are censored what will happen to alliances like OMFG and WTF?

I'm against it simply because it doesn't make sense to me. When I see "WTF" I think to myself "double-you-tee-eff." Not "what the $%&@." for what it's worth, I'm against the censorship of any words, but I know why it's in place, and I can agree with the sentiment and the reasoning.

My main issue is that there are alliances with the acronyms WTF and OMFG.

-Bama

Biggest problem I have with this is it leaves everything open to interpretation. Every single acronym we use can be made into something vulgar without that much thought. Who gets to decide where the line is drawn? I understand the censoring of the words themselves, but like someone else said before me, the acronyms can stand for anything.

tl;dr: tbh & imho, wtf lol.

The entire point of acronyms in this instance is to, aside from shorten the expression, quite simply make it less offensive because you don't have to read it aloud in your head. Just as you can say "El-Oh-El" in your head instead of "laugh out loud", you can just easily say "Double-U Tee Eff" instead of saying every word in the acronym. Ultimately, the CN community is not at all responsible, nor should it be, for how you interpret and sound out certain common expressions on the Internet.

This forum (the internet) is the one true place of Freedom of Speech. It is one thing to censor the word itself. But acronyms that contain representation of the word are not offensive. WTF? What the frick? OMG! Oh my gosh/goodness!

Am I to believe that your interpretation of what those acronyms stand for is the only acceptable one? You cannot generalize for the entire CN community what an acronym might stand for or even if it is truly offensive. It is one thing if an acronyms spells out an offensive word, but these acronyms are harmless at worst.

And with that, there is something I am curious about--do you feel alliance names represented by acronyms that are clearly meant to be inflammatory or otherwise stand for something inappropriate should be allowed?

Such as? Examples please

Whenever I see '#$%*!' in someone's post, I immediately cycle through my head all the possible 'rude' words that could fit into the structure of the sentence. If we ban acronyms because they make people think of profanity when they read it, then I propose we ban censorship altogether, because it makes me think of naughty words, too.

Alliances with clear examples of having an "inflammatory or otherwise" name would be obvious. However, alliances such as OMFG (Ordinary Men Fighting Giants) who have an alliance name that could be considered offensive if used as an acronym. Censorship therefore, would have to be done on a case by case basis which is not practical.
An alternative is however, to not allow that alliance to refer to themselves using an acronym which I personally do not support as the acronym for their alliance is not meant to be offensive.

EDIT: Spelling

It's meant to be clever, we get (and as adult human beings appreciate) that. However (as mods) we also know some people have been offended by it, don't understand why it's allowed, etc. Keeping in mind that no matter what, grandfathered alliance/nation names are immune, the potential for offense/abuse does raise the question of whether or not we'd allow a similar play on words in the future.

Off the top of my head I can only think of some particularly aggregious past examples including one which was a barely-veiled reference to an inappropriate attraction to children and another with an abbreviation as follows: C.U.N.T.

And said alliances are undoubtedly no longer in existence?

Now tell me what W.T.F. stands for please, with ABSOLUTE certainty, not simply your (or any other, so you do not think this aimed solely at yourself SoE) interpretation.

My point remains that it is all interpretation. While the acronym you presented spells out EXPLICITLY an offensive word, acronyms such as WTF or OMG are open to several different interpretations and unless it can be proven that they are made with malicious (profane) intent, I see no justification in censoring them.

(edit for spelling)

I don't think an alliance name which is abbreviated 'WTF' or 'OMFG' is intended to be inflammatory or offensive by itself, but I do believe that those names were chosen because they obviously fit a well-known acronym. It'd be similar to having an alliance called Universal Soldiers Aliance (USA) - it's a well known acronym and maybe the leaders of that alliance feel it gives their group some sense of appeal.

In regards to the first post, I believe that we're all at least 13 years old or have our parents consent to be registered on this forum. So seeing bad words shouldn't be a new thing: you see it on TV, at work, at school, at home, on signs. Some of us are so desensitized to these words/acronyms that they don't bother us at all. Personally, I feel there's a time and a place for them.

I agree that it's not right to use them towards other people (ie, "Jimmy, STFU!") and that practice should be discouraged. However, I notice these acronyms are being used most often as general statements to express a feeling, and not usually as attacks/flames towards others. If some people can't handle this, they really shouldn't be visiting online forums. In all honestly, I've never been to a forum which censors acronyms.

@Spaniard United: I agree. If the alliance name is actually one of these offensive words (and therefore not an acronym), then by all means it shouldn't be allowed.

The clear difference with that example is that the acronym itself is offensive, rather than the acronym containing an offensive word as one of its letters. Thought of the offensive word cannot be avoided, contrary to something like "OMFG" with which one can simply think of the letters.

The words arent always meant to be inflammatory. More often they arent. I think that would be somewhat the case for the full words as well. Being that there are alliances with the acronyms, I suppose it cant be done. Though, banning profane acronyms is consistent to banning profane words. There is nothing about taking it too far. "wtf" and "omfg" arent as direct to a person and would be less severe then "stfu" or "gtfo". These 2 are directly disrespectful to a person and the content of them both can be said in a far less profane way.




That is certainly not the point of acronyms. They are meant to shorten a phrase for quicker communication on a keyboard or now texting as well. There is no other interpretation of the phrase "wtf". You can try to read it as what the fudge or w-t-f but the actual meanign of the slang is what it is.



Again, you can try to play around with the letters but that doesnt change what it is. Wtf is what the F***. Stfu is shut the f*** up. Etc.. Using acronyms is a way to play with the censor. Jus tbecause it is so common doesnt make it any less consistent to ban the profane phrase.

There is a difference between "W.T.F." an attempt to being clever, and "C.U.N.T." a clear attempt at circumventing rules. Obviously case by case needs to be considered.

There is no difference. There appears to be a difference because the "wtf" phrase is so common-place. I know the intention of being profane is drastically reduced when saying wtf(not necessarily the case by saying stfu or gtfo) but technically..

I am perfectly aware of the meaning of the acronyms. However, your complaint was that



My point, and many others' in this thread, is that you are not being forced to read the phrases. I myself do not even think of the "F word" when reading the phrase WTF - it is so incredibly common throughout the Internet that it is simply synonymous with surprise/facepalming, and need not be associated with vulgarity every time it is read.

With the phrases "GTFO" and "STFU", I am inclined to agree with you, because this is directed at a person with the full intent of rudeness. Something like "WTF" or "lmao", on the other hand, is not directing the obscenity at anyone in particular, and that combined with the above point about ignoring it altogether, produces a meaning that is ultimately harmless.

Your right, someone can easily not recognize them as profanity but the same can be said about the actual words as well. While I am "forced to read them in my head", that is not the only reason to censor something. Otherwise, Id probably ask to censor some other choice words. GOONs for example(lol..not serious)

What reasons are there for censoring something other than that it is offensive?

I am not in favor of censoring these, because what they are is watered down cursing at worst, much like words such as "gosh" and "darn", and at best they're just silly phrases with no specific meaning. Ever since I saw that flash movie "End of the World" a few years ago, the first thing that runs in my head when I see WTF is "double you tee eff mate?" rather than the phrase itself, because it is silly internet slang, and they certainly are used a lot of for comedic effect.

In addition, most people over the age of 12 are already more than familiar with what these words actually are, and probably use them frequently. I'm all for a forum community that is comfortable for as many players as possible, but it shouldn't have to reach the point that it's like overprotective parents, and that's how I feel this suggestion would be should it be implemented.

too true

FWIW, (in agreement with BamaBuc, in some regard), if I ever "quit the game" on the basis of censoring these acronyms, it would not be for the reason of "Oh yeah, well, I'll show them by quitting", but moreso for the reason that it would be too censored for my taste, and it wouldn't be worth the effort of triple-reading every post I make to make sure that "wtf" or "omfg" (which I actually read aloud as "om-fuh-gah", and even spell it like that on occasion) are not included in my post. It's become second nature for me. So, if the decision was made that it's too vulgar, I would probably retire for the time being and maybe come back later, if I felt I wanted to, to save myself the hassle of trying to adapt.

I agree with the points others such as Moridin and Katsumi have made before me; such acronyms are simply part of common parlance, rarely intended to be offensive. When I read WTF, I read Double-U Tee Eff!??!!?, because thats what the person is saying. I can support filtering outright vulgar words (Although I would prefer an option to switch the filter on and off, as other forums have - different topic however) but acronyms is getting ridiculous.

To me, and to others as this thread exhibits, WTF - for instance - has become almost an entirely new word with a different meaning than its origins. It, and others like it (OM[F]G, STFU, GTFO) have all become expressions often of sarcasm, humour or surprised, very rarely used in an angry/offensive way - and when such a use does occur, the community as a whole (as I have witnessed on this forum and on others) judges such a person accordingly. There is a common culture across the Internet that these words have satirical, humorous and time saving applications, rather than offensive ones.

I'm having trouble articulating what I want to say, because a proposal to censor acronyms simply seems so ... outlandish to an internet game built on such parlance and a fun atmosphere. At what point does censorship infringe on fun?

tl;dr - OMG, WTF?? GTFO!

^^Proper, satirical and surprised usages of such acronyms in regards to this thread, with no offensive connotations.

Your right. Thats the perfect solution. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Mods you can close this now weve got it all figured out. [/sarcasm]


no.