Response to Rebel Virginia's False Accusations

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1295656493' post='2589840']
[color="#0000FF"]Hello friends. Once again, I am Rebel Virginia. I'm sure you all know by now VE's story of Polaris' alleged spying, but what you may not know is the truth.

A few days ago, People's Champion Lennox, aka 00Lennox, returned to this world. He joined VE. [b]Almost immediately one Mr. Impero approached him about possibly setting up a sting on Polar. Note that Impero's offer was made prior to Lennox's conversation with Dajobo.[/b] Impero sent to People's Champion Lennox, aka 00Lennox, private information from the most secure of VE's forums - information, contrary to the claims of VE, is not available to all members. In fact, many VE members were baffled at how People's Champion Lennox, aka 00Lennox, could have acquired such information. Now they'll know. Impero gave it to him.

It should be noted that this not the first time Impero has attempted this type of sting in order to catch spies. A similar attempt was made a few months ago against the then CoJ member, lillightening. Since CoJ is the domain of my dear friend Schattenmann, I shall leave it to him to disclose what he wish.


[/quote]

I figure I should respond to Mr. Virgina's false accusations in its own thread, so as it does not get lost within a sea of replies. Simply put, the bolded above is a lie. You will find that every single one of my statements, both in our declaration of war on the New Polar Order and elsewhere are not inconsistent with anything you find below. Lennox approached me with his tale of spying and logs of Dajobo, I did not approach him, nor did I have any knowledge of his conversation with Dajobo before he came to me with it.


Below you will find proof that this is a lie. First are screen shots of my logs with Lennox, along with the file creation and last alteration dates. You will see that they have not been altered (the last modification date is the last time I spoke with him on that nick), and you will see that[b] the first time he approached me was after his conversation with Dajobo[/b]. Second is my PM box, with the date and time Lennox PMed me the logs of his initial talk with Dajobo, which was, as you will see, during the conversation where he revealed the existence his conversation with Dajobo.

I challenge Dajobo to post the logs and file information of his conversation with Lennox as well.


-snip-
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[IMG]http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh149/Impero55/4.png[/IMG]
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[IMG]http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh149/Impero55/6.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh149/Impero55/8.png[/IMG]
-snip-

Edited January 22, 2011 by Xellos
ModEdit: Don't post hostmasks or filter evasions.

[Xiphosis]

Okay, I have to confess to being pretty pissed off to see R_V and others try and tar VE/Impero for the screenshot stuff for one simple reason – they did it [b]because I asked them to[/b]. Oh god Xiph set up NpO! No – exactly the opposite. That Lennox, under his rerolled name, handed them logs – while being an active VE member – of Dajabo suggesting he spy on them VE was fully prepared to roll them for that alone.

Impero and I, even when we HATE each other, talk about everything. Consider it our mutual burden to live up to the spirit of the Balkan Entente for our memberships sakes; our egos can’t get in the way or overrule the VE-GOD relationship. It’s not meant to. Anyway; he approached me with the Polar stuff:

Session Start: Fri Jan 14 17:47:37 2011
Session Ident: Impero[VE]
[ 17:47:37 ] Session Ident: Impero[VE] (edit)
[ 17:47:37 ] [(
[ 17:47:37 ] ~~~ Query with [ Impero[VE] ]/[ edit ] opened on [ Friday, January 14th 2011, 17:47:37 ].
[ 17:47:37 ] ~~~ Total queries: [ 338 ]/[ ~15.4 per day ]
[ 17:47:37 ] ~~~ Queries today: [ 2 ]
[ 17:47:37 ] ~~~ Common channels: [ ~#ve %#RoK @#reason &#miscegenation &#heaven ]
[ 17:47:37 ] [(
[ 17:47:37 ]
[ 17:47:37 ] (Impero[VE]) so
[ 17:47:45 ] (Impero[VE]) got a problem
[ 17:47:48 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) sup
[ 17:48:09 ] (Impero[VE]) this is one of those things that cant leave this query, even to your own guys for now
[ 17:48:18 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) got it
[ 17:48:47 ] (Impero[VE]) particularly troublesome this time because it involves one of your friends and roundaboutly an all of ours
[ 17:49:51 ] (Impero[VE]) i just want you to know now so you guys dont think im randomly springing it
[ 17:51:18 ] (Impero[VE]) well
[ 17:51:33 ] (Impero[VE]) no better way to explain then just showing you:
[ 17:51:35 ] (Impero[VE]) 20:29 Dajobo|NpO| MHA has so many ghosts it's hard to know the real numbers
[ 17:51:36 ] (Impero[VE]) 20:30 Chancy NPO are !@#$%*^
[ 17:51:36 ] (Impero[VE]) 20:30 Dajobo|NpO| on paper MHA well and truly
[ 17:51:36 ] (Impero[VE]) 20:33 Chancy I should spy on MHA
[ 17:51:36 ] (Impero[VE]) 20:33 Chancy Just to make them mad
[ 17:51:36 ] (Impero[VE]) 20:33 Dajobo|NpO| nah they aren't the enemy
[ 17:51:36 ] (Impero[VE]) 20:34 Dajobo|NpO| pick domeone worth spying on
[ 17:51:36 ] (Impero[VE]) 20:35 Chancy Give me suggestions
[ 17:51:36 ] (Impero[VE]) 20:36 Dajobo|NpO| VE or MK are the two who are heavily involved in world politics
[ 17:51:37 ] (Impero[VE]) 20:36 Dajobo|NpO| anything that happens will come through them first
[ 17:51:39 ] (Impero[VE]) 20:39 Chancy I will consider spying on VE
[ 17:52:13 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) loool
[ 17:52:42 ] (Impero[VE]) then, he did, and has been giving them screen shots of our battalions and !@#$
[ 17:52:47 ] (Impero[VE]) until he realized he likes it here
[ 17:53:01 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) I say this very disillusioned with NpO lately: ask for screenshots
[ 17:53:22 ] (Impero[VE]) of the logs?
[ 17:53:25 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) yes
[ 17:53:34 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) or get Dajabo to bring it up and screenshot the convo real-time
[ 17:53:45 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) logs are just .txt files and you can edit them pretty freely and screen it
[ 17:53:56 ] (Impero[VE]) he had them saved to a word document because it was from mibbit at work
[ 17:54:01 ] (Impero[VE]) but thats an exerpt
[ 17:54:06 ] (Impero[VE]) the convo is pretty long
[ 17:54:08 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) you don't think it's suss?
[ 17:54:12 ] (Impero[VE]) defintily not fake
[ 17:54:26 ] (Impero[VE]) its got ooc !@#$, they know eachother, etc
[ 17:54:32 ] (Impero[VE]) dajobo even picks his nation name for him
[ 17:54:46 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) I'd like to see the full ones
[ 17:54:51 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) I wanna see if it sounds like him
[ 17:55:20 ] (Impero[VE]) as long as i have your full trust its not going to leave your eyes till i say so
[ 17:55:25 ] (Impero[VE]) im not even telling my own gov yet
[ 17:55:26 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) It won't
[ 17:55:32 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) But I'm definitely suss
[ 17:55:57 ] (Impero[VE]) because i am getting them in real time/screen shots next convo he has
[ 17:57:07 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) ok good
[ 17:57:20 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) how well do you know this guy?
[ 17:57:38 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) because I know some [like Schatt] would [censored] their pants if they could get you to believe something like this
[ 17:57:55 ] (Impero[VE]) rather well
[ 17:58:16 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) how long, etc?
[ 17:58:17 ] (Impero[VE]) its lennox
[ 17:58:30 ] (Impero[VE]) sent
[ 17:59:36 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) ..
[ 17:59:39 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) It's Lennox?
[ 17:59:42 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) NSO Lennox?
[ 17:59:43 ] (Impero[VE]) yea
[ 17:59:48 ] (Impero[VE]) also cant leave this query
[ 17:59:48 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) Ministry of Lies Lennox?
[ 18:00:05 ] (Impero[VE]) ive always talked with him and lint
[ 18:00:16 ] (Impero[VE]) not about cn !@#$, etc
[ 18:00:19 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) It's Lennox
[ 18:00:27 ] (Impero[VE]) he was VE for a little before after he rogued on us
[ 18:00:37 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) ...
[ 18:00:49 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) Please tell me you're going to wait for more than this, lol.
[ 18:01:27 ] (Impero[VE]) just for completeness, not because i think its necessary
[ 18:01:31 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) Dajobo|NpO| I actuall forget what it was but he served them pretty hard
[ 18:01:33 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) ..
[ 18:01:37 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) Dajabo is like [OOC stuff edited out]
[ 18:01:40 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) he doesn't talk like this
[ 18:01:50 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) [OOC edit]
[ 18:03:31 ] (Impero[VE]) him using the word served is certainly not enough to dissuade me
[ 18:04:15 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) 21:00 Dajobo|NpO| nfi
[ 18:04:15 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) 21:00 Chancy what does that mean
[ 18:04:15 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) 21:01 Dajobo|NpO| no !@#$@#$ idea
[ 18:04:27 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) .. I'm serious, this sounds nothing like him XD
[ 18:04:39 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) I can accept him being a /little/ different around an OOC friend but not this different
[ 18:04:47 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) be very very cautious about this
[ 18:05:09 ] (Impero[VE]) of course
[ 18:05:17 ] (Impero[VE]) but what it is on its face is what it is on its face
[ 18:05:41 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) 21:12 Dajobo|NpO| lolno...
[ 18:05:41 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) 21:13 Dajobo|NpO| that would be like spying on a footpath
[ 18:05:41 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) 21:13 Dajobo|NpO| not looking at the peple or anything
[ 18:05:42 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) ..
[ 18:05:44 ] • Xiphosis[GOD] stares
[ 18:05:51 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) He sounds like a drunk MKer
[ 18:06:10 ] (Impero[VE]) maybe hes just more formal with you?
[ 18:06:15 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) 21:14 Dajobo|NpO| what ever floats your boat
[ 18:06:15 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) 21:15 Dajobo|NpO| I'm not part of this just lolling with you
[ 18:06:15 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) 21:15 Chancy way to cover your ass
[ 18:06:15 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) 21:15 Dajobo|NpO| sif you need me to tell you what is interesting
[ 18:06:15 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) 21:15 Dajobo|NpO| no ass covering
[ 18:06:15 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) 21:16 Dajobo|NpO| just no need to tell you how to do !@#$
[ 18:06:15 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) 21:16 Dajobo|NpO| you know what you are doing already
[ 18:06:26 ] (Impero[VE]) either way, ill be getting it real time soon enough
[ 18:06:28 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) Nah we're pretty raw with each other
[ 18:06:29 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) @_@
[ 18:06:35 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) Screenshot the /whois as well
[ 18:06:42 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) Make sure this is Coldfront and not some other server
[ 18:06:49 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) Make sure he's identified, etc.
[ 18:06:50 ] (Impero[VE]) yea
[ 18:06:56 ] (Impero[VE]) put yourself in my shoes
[ 18:06:59 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) I am
[ 18:07:00 ] (Impero[VE]) though
[ 18:07:03 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) that's why I'm saying be careful
[ 18:07:05 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) not ignore it
[ 18:07:05 ] (Impero[VE]) understand where im at right now
[ 18:07:15 ] (Impero[VE]) if all of this checks out
[ 18:07:17 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) Just make real sure this is him and understand that it doesn't sound like him to me
[ 18:07:18 ] (Impero[VE]) with the whois and whatnot
[ 18:08:03 ] (Impero[VE]) yea dont worry, if the whois doesnt play out then its a dead issue
[ 18:08:14 ] (Impero[VE]) if it does, im going to be wanting to move foreward
[ 18:09:03 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) mhm

So to sum up:

VE was rolling anyway. The screens were gotten because I asked for them. Dajabo, given the position we both know NpO’s been in, you should’ve been more cautious. You shouldn’t have trusted Lennox. For everyone saying that’s ‘not enough’ - that more negotiations should’ve taken place – need to look through CN history.

When the first or second in command is involved, there is never negotiation. Several alliances, big and small, have died for crimes committed by one or the other. No one complained then, and it’s the height of hypocrisy for the same individuals to be complaining now. NpO is just an alliance, same as any of us.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Xiphosis

[Tromp]

Good call guys.

[Fallen Fool]

So the proper response if my friend screws up is to try and entrap him into making a bigger mistake and not to just talk it over with him?

Good note.

[Falloutboy]

o/ GOD

[pezstar]

So this boils down to, in essence, VE declaring a war on NpO because Dajobo essentially stated who he WOULD spy on if he were spying. After he said he wouldn't spy. And then GOD didn't believe it, so they got you, personally, to give Lennox screenshots to give to Dajobo. Who opened them, having no idea what they were. And then came to you about it the next day.

Well. Ok then. Just wanted to be sure what my alliance is dying for here.

[Aurion]

I really wish Dajobo had just had the sense to walk away instead of digging himself in deeper (and confirming the logs VE already had that they were gonna use as a CB).

Edit: He did a bit more than open the PM, Pez. You do remember the last set of logs in VE's DoW?

Edited January 22, 2011 by Aurion

[Ironfist]

And the OWF jumps to [i]this [/i]thread! Game on!

[Spaarlaamp]

Nice one, I'm with you Impero.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1295661860' post='2590263']
Well. Ok then. Just wanted to be sure what my alliance is dying for here.
[/quote]
Oh lighten up, forget about the politics and just enjoy the war.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1295661731' post='2590253']
So the proper response if my friend screws up is to try and entrap him into making a bigger mistake and not to just talk it over with him?

Good note.
[/quote]

Friends? I think this just proves we never were. If we were friends your own second in command wouldn't have characterized us as the enemy.

[Baltus]

Haters gonna hate all this logic.

[Xiphosis]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1295661731' post='2590253']
So the proper response if my friend screws up is to try and entrap him into making a bigger mistake and not to just talk it over with him?
[/quote]

Dajabo and Impero are not friends. VE and NpO are not friends. And you knew this full well. This is comparative to LUE being in NpO's position here and NPO digging this up. Someone would get rolled - you know it.

[quote]Who opened them, having no idea what they were. And then came to you about it the next day.[/quote]

Oh pez. First of all:

1) Lennox told Dajabo what they were before he opened them. Dajabo even prompted him to rehost them. That's in VE's DoW. Original post.

2) It wasn't 'the next day'. It was 48 hours later, after RoK went and talked to Polar and they realized VE and PB were on the way.

It sounds much prettier your way though.

[Lord Levistus]

I finally get in early in a thread, so here goes: I really don't care if this was a screw job or a sting or whatever you want to call it. It couldn't happen to nicer people.

I may not like VE, and this won't make me like them any more, but if ANY alliance deserves it, it's Polar.

Have fun.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Lord Levistus

[pezstar]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1295662200' post='2590286']
Dajabo and Impero are not friends. VE and NpO are not friends. And you knew this full well. This is comparative to LUE being in NpO's position here and NPO digging this up. Someone would get rolled - you know it.



Oh pez. First of all:

1) Lennox told Dajabo what they were before he opened them. Dajabo even prompted him to rehost them. That's in VE's DoW. Original post.

2) It wasn't 'the next day'. It was 48 hours later, after RoK went and talked to Polar and they realized VE and PB were on the way.

It sounds much prettier your way though.
[/quote]

It was 20 hours later. It was the first time the next day that Dajobo was online. He queried Impero basically immediately.

[Viridia]

Thank you, Xiphosis. And thank you Impero.

[ktarthan]

It's nice to see this kind of transparency.
o/ VE
o/ GOD

[The FSM]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1295661490' post='2590234']

VE was rolling anyway. The screens were gotten because I asked for them. Dajabo, given the position we both know NpO’s been in, you should’ve been more cautious. You shouldn’t have trusted Lennox. For everyone saying that’s ‘not enough’ - that more negotiations should’ve taken place – need to look through CN history.

When the first or second in command is involved, there is never negotiation. Several alliances, big and small, have died for crimes committed by one or the other. No one complained then, and it’s the height of hypocrisy for the same individuals to be complaining now. NpO is just an alliance, same as any of us.
[/quote]

Thanks for proving my point Xiph that VE was going to roll NpO regardless of what happened. If anything, this 'rebuttal' has shed any pretense of having the higher ground and just jumped into the mud with all the other alliances that have been hated and demonized over the years. Just because other people have skipped negotiations and gone straight to the war phase doesnt mean that VE is absolved of responsibility.

People have been complaining about this sort of thing since the beginning Xiphosis, usually it was the people you were allied with doing most of the complaining.

[The MVP]

Doesn't [i]anyone[/i] find the fact VE set up and even [i]admit[/i] to setting up Polaris with this CB a CB in and of itself?

[Tromp]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295662553' post='2590314']
Doesn't [i]anyone[/i] find the fact VE set up and even [i]admit[/i] to setting up Polaris with this CB a CB in and of itself?
[/quote]
Find someone who agrees with you and roll out the tanks?

[mythicknight]

The Wheel turns.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1295662603' post='2590315']
Find someone who agrees with you and roll out the tanks?
[/quote]

We agree at last. Or is the second time? I don't remember.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='The Flying Scotsman' timestamp='1295662505' post='2590311']
Thanks for proving my point Xiph that VE was going to roll NpO regardless of what happened.
[/quote]

Read his logs. Notice where I said "if it all checks out". We were only rolling if it was true and there were no objections for mutual parties, and both questions were answered.

[magicninja]

You still set them up. You could have just as easily laughed it off and never gave Lennox anything. Doesn't completely exonerate Dajobo for his actions but you could have stopped this thing before it ever got off the ground. You chose not to. I think that is the detail most people will focus on. Quite frankly you have no defense for it. It's ok I can't complain. I'm not in it for VE or Polar. I'm in it for my pals.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Lord Levistus' timestamp='1295662278' post='2590292']
I finally get in early in a thread, so here goes: I really don't care if this was a screw job or a sting or whatever you want to call it. It couldn't happen to nicer people.

I may not like VE, and this won't make me like them any more, but if ANY alliance deserves it, it's Polar.

Have fun.
[/quote]

Is it really fair to tolerate injustice if it happened to people who were unjust? Honestly, if this was GOONS being set up I'd be just as angry as I am with Polar. Let me be honest, if this was Pacifca being set up it'd take all the strength it had in me to not cheer for the other side, but I'd not be happy.

The only thing that worries me is the fact that in two political moves (MK canceling all their treaties and the forming of PB) a whole group of alliances were deleted from the Super-Grievance side. If the people in power can do that what do they plan on doing next? Who will they go after next? I pray I'm wrong, but I'm not going to bet on it.