UOKMB war with GOONS

[thekirbyfake]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1283877261' post='2445432']
No, I'd hate to do that because there are so many hoping for it that I'd have to personally be the one to deprive people of targets. It'd be much better if you guys hit them yourselves. It would be a surprise gift.

If you do somehow come out of anarchy for round two though, GOONS would appreciate it if you declared on as many different targets as possible to spread the love.
[/quote]

So I get to be Santa?

>bounces, clapping<

[nutkase]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1283876902' post='2445425']
That's the only issue here. Their allies requested to get in on some rogue action and GOONS said have at it.

And this generated 6 pages of crying? Seriously?


What the hell is wrong with you people lately.
[/quote]

Actually I think most of it is debating the definition of the word Alliance, and the fact a nation was nuked for fighting back against a tech raid.

Yes I have a issue with GOONS and how about they go things, but it is a issue I have with a alliance not one of personal conflict. I had a good conversation and giggle with nippy the other day

[DeadAnimal]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1283876575' post='2445417']
I am new here but I don't believe there needs to be an issue for people to be mad at GOONS.
[/quote]

For once I agree with Mattski. People shoulden't be criticized when they haven't made any mistakes, and GOONs are no exception. They get crucified for the stigma surrounding raiding, facts not withstanding. Save it for when they have actually screwed up.

[nutkase]

[quote name='DeadAnimal' timestamp='1283878497' post='2445445']
For once I agree with Mattski. People shoulden't be criticized when they haven't made any mistakes, and GOONs are no exception. They get crucified for the stigma surrounding raiding, facts not withstanding. Save it for when they have actually screwed up.
[/quote]

So you think a non nuclear nation should be nuked for defending himself from a tech raid?

He should of taken the actions on the chin and fessed up that its part of the risk of tech raiding rather then have hissy fit and nuke him.

and Impero thinks there is something wrong with us who are against it?

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1283878773' post='2445447']
So you think a non nuclear nation should be nuked for defending himself from a tech raid?

He should of taken the actions on the chin and fessed up that its part of the risk of tech raiding rather then have hissy fit and nuke him.

and Impero thinks there is something wrong with us who are against it?
[/quote]

My mistake about the nuking first thing, though the latter portion of this post still stands.

(also, most of the topic seems to be around the fact that GOONS did not cover the nations on their own, not that the nations are being covered in general)

Edited September 7, 2010 by Il Impero Romano

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1283869093' post='2445269']
They came to us really, and who were we to refuse our friends' help? You waived any right to a 'fair' fight when you went rogue on us, deal with it and stop crying about it.
[/quote]

Since I like your spunk, thekirbyfake - and that of your alliance as a whole, I'm going to tell you something that took me way to long to learn, being that I tend to take want to believe others until proven clearly wrong. There are NO rights on Planet Bob. There are ethically good leaders, and maybe even some ethically good alliance leaders, who think there should be and will enforce those within their alliance at least, but that's it.

Thus, what Sardonic is saying wrong. You did not waive a "right" to a "fair" fight because there is no such thing. Please do argue as if you have rights, because in my opinion we all should. However, ACT in a fashion that shows you recognize the truth. You can either fight the system from the outside or play along and attempt to change it internally, but whatever you do or argue, always prepare for the worst.

----------------------------------------

I personally am very very sad that a nation can attack another nation that is non-nuclear in a raid, with the blessing of his/her alliance AND when the group that that nation belongs to (regardless of size) fights back militarily people from other alliances have no qualms in joining the fight against the group that was nuked in the first place. That in itself is painful to watch.

But add to that the fact that the group who had the member nuked in a raid is 8 nations strong and the group who approves of it's members nuking non-nuclear nations is far far larger. Okay, well, that's just GOONS - right?

Wrong - other alliances jump in to "defend" GOONS (who apparently couldn't wait until their members in range brought the others down or doesn't bother to aid their nations enough so they do have a good spread of nation sizes). If that isn't bad enough, a senator (who could have reasonably said "you all can handle an 8 nation group, have fun" and avoided the e-lawyer-ing of what constitutes an "alliance" entirely) sanctions the 8 member group!

Yes, you all have the power to do that. That is a fact. Congratulations.

My question is this, considering the actions of the people in power here who are not GOONS, what was the Karma war really about? I would of thought, if nothing else, at least to let an alliance like GOONS deal with the results of their own actions when they are clearly able to do so anyway.

That's me...fooled by wanting to believe in others once again.

Edited September 7, 2010 by White Chocolate

[Ziperia]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1283879222' post='2445458']
They nuked first.

(also, most of the topic seems to be around the fact that GOONS did not cover the nations on their own, not that the nations are being covered in general)
[/quote]
No. GOONS nuked first. You can look at the screenshot, if you don't believe me.
[img]http://i55.tinypic.com/fe2clz.jpg[/img]

Then again, I do agree that all the rest of the complaining is stupid...

[Aurion]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1283876902' post='2445425']
What the hell is wrong with you people lately.
[/quote]

Elementary, my dear Impero.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1283876902' post='2445425']
[b]GOONS [/b]said[/quote]

Edited September 7, 2010 by Aurion

[Arthur Blair]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1283879251' post='2445460']
My question is this, considering the actions of the people in power here who are not GOONS, what was the Karma war really about? I would of thought, if nothing else, at least to let an alliance like GOONS deal with the results of their own actions when they are clearly able to do so anyway.

That's me...fooled by wanting to believe in others once again.
[/quote]

The Karma War was to defeat enemies, I'm sorry you fooled yourself once again.

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='Arthur Blair' timestamp='1283879691' post='2445471']
The Karma War was to defeat enemies.
[/quote]

Exactly, so that the Karma alliances can have the power to do what NPO did to them previous. This being a very nice demonstration of that power.

Edited September 7, 2010 by White Chocolate

[Raider]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1283872099' post='2445326']
Yeah, i wish i had such great posting skills like yourself



Well as a communist you might aswell be a toilet cleaner, as true communism everyone gets paid the same and are equals, so whats the point in progressing further?

Oh so its your strategy to be ankle-biters, my mistake as i just thought "GOONS" were an alliance of bone idle nation developers who didnt have a clue, so please carry on with the mastermind strategy
[/quote]
Clearly you have a very weak understanding of communism. As money would not exist in a true communist society.

Oh and if you bite the ankles hard enough a person will topple over.

[Arthur Blair]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1283879833' post='2445473']
Exactly, so that the Karma alliances can have the power to do what NPO did to them previous. This being a very nice example.
[/quote]

I suggest you educate yourself on history. I know it's hip and cool to claim that everyone since the karma war is "just like NPO", but you're wrong.

Also please stop trying to make everything about NPO, the world does not revolve around them.

[Raider]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1283879833' post='2445473']
Exactly, so that the Karma alliances can have the power to do what NPO did to them previous. This being a very nice demonstration of that power.
[/quote]
Yeah fighting a couple of nuclear rogues is totally the same thing as curbstombing alliances and driving people from the game.

[Jens of the desert]

[quote name='Karolina' timestamp='1283860334' post='2445174']
Hey, thanks for telling everyone what happens when a topics locked! You know, we were all a bit unsure about it.
[/quote]
You don't get jokes do you?

[tanglerat]

fao Sardonic:

What is that avatar of yours all about? I find it inexplicably somewhat disturbing and yet equally fascinating. Is it morse, or a broken bar code, or something else entirely?

(Oh, btw, I've just nuked you. Same time again tomorrow good for you?)

[Karolina]

[quote name='Jens of the desert' timestamp='1283880984' post='2445495']
You don't get jokes do you?
[/quote]
Well, since my post was pure sarcasm, clearly, neither do you.

[Heinlander]

[quote name='tanglerat' timestamp='1283883005' post='2445508']
fao Sardonic:

What is that avatar of yours all about? I find it inexplicably somewhat disturbing and yet equally fascinating. Is it morse, or a broken bar code, or something else entirely?

(Oh, btw, I've just nuked you. Same time again tomorrow good for you?)
[/quote]Noooooo dear leader!

We have been bested. Congratulations. But since you have beaten us, now [i]you[/i] are the goons.

How heavy the crown.

[thekirbyfake]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1283878161' post='2445441']
the fact a nation was nuked for fighting back against a tech raid.
[/quote]
Actually it's worse than that.

During the July raids King Minornut was away and came back to find 3 war declarations, half a dozen ground attacks and one peace offer which was taken.

KM then offered peace to the other two and hadn't even tried to retaliate at this point. His reward? A nuke followed with a peace offer.

[Itsuki Koizumi]

so few nukes the GRL isn't even capped :3

[Alterego]

I wish you had waited and tried to recruit more to your cause, Its certainly entertaning. Give 'em hell UOKMB.

@GOONS. Not handling this alone shows you up as an inferior fighting force. I wouldnt have liked our allies taking our slots.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Alterego

[Captain Flinders]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1283876902' post='2445425']
That's the only issue here. Their allies requested to get in on some rogue action and GOONS said have at it.

And this generated 6 pages of crying? Seriously?


What the hell is wrong with you people lately.
[/quote]
The only reason I'm still reading is because I'm curious (yet not surprised) at the practice of GOONS nuking raid targets. Raiding is cast in a rather negative light as is. It sucks to see that GOONS are making it even more so.

[JT Jag]

I would once again like to request some form of proof that the GOONS nation in question nuked the UOKMB nation in question in a manner that was not a response to aggressive actions by the UOKMB nation in question.

Normally, the burden of proof would be on me, but I can't see other nation's war reports.

Edited September 7, 2010 by JT Jag

[Captain Flinders]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1283887680' post='2445582']
I would once again like to request some form of proof that the GOONS nation in question nuked the UOKMB nation in question in a manner that was not a response to aggressive actions by the UOKMB nation in question.

Normally, the burden of proof would be on me, but I can't see other nation's war reports.
[/quote]
Well [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=91933&view=findpost&p=2445151]this[/url] post indicates that the GOONS nation did attack with nuclear weapons first. I've checked the reports in game myself and that was indeed the first nuclear strike. Now whether it was the first aggressive action or not, I haven't seen proof of. But being the first one to launch a nuclear weapon in a botched tech raid is rather deplorable in my mind and, as I said, gives the practice of tech raiding an even worse reputation.

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1283888075' post='2445590']
Well [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=91933&view=findpost&p=2445151]this[/url] post indicates that the GOONS nation did attack with nuclear weapons first. I've checked the reports in game myself and that was indeed the first nuclear strike. Now whether it was the first aggressive action or not, I haven't seen proof of. But being the first one to launch a nuclear weapon in a botched tech raid is rather deplorable in my mind and, as I said, gives the practice of tech raiding an even worse reputation.
[/quote]I am not debating that the raider in question was the first one to launch a nuke, I'm just trying to confirm or disprove these claims that the nuclear attack was unprovoked.

I can't even start defending that action if it was.

[Ziperia]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1283888185' post='2445592']
I am not debating that the raider in question was the first one to launch a nuke, I'm just trying to confirm or disprove these claims that the nuclear attack was unprovoked.

I can't even start defending that action if it was.
[/quote]
You might not care of my opinion, but I do think that nuking a tech raid target who attacks you back is lame, overreaction and cowardice. Like you wouldn't already have caused him enough harm.
Tech raiding is cool, I like how it boosted my nation growth, but at least I was man enough to take those occasional retaliations I got without escalating the conflict.