That's Enough of That

[Lord Panda]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='17 February 2010 - 12:32 PM' timestamp='1266427945' post='2187688']
The aggressive action is not GLoF's attack. If the accusations against 57th are true, then it is 57th that committed an aggressive act of war. Erego, the treaty is already gone. GLoF didn't have to say "we cancel the treaty and waive the wait period" because you're already at war once the aggressive act has occurred. Can you understand that? That's not e-lawyering it's simple progression. Once the war has started, it might be nice for a phone call, but no, it's not required; you're mad you guys are getting wrecked so you're screamign it's required, but there's no binding code regarding how fast an alliance can defend itself. If it were me, I wouldn't have even waited the three hours that GLoF waited if it meant missing an update.

Again, the question of reparations and justification is wrapped in the answer of whether the plot is true or not. And it's a very easy matter for 57th to clear up. So easy, in fact, that 57th's 4-day delay on proving GLoF wrong by showing that their IP evidence is true is [i][b]baffling[/b][/i] to me.

Please, prove GLoF is wrong and blow me away. Hell, mask me, I'll check out the IPs. If the key to your defense is that the evidence you gave GLoF was not fake, then why would you not pursue that with all expedience?
[/quote]

Because there is no point to pursuing it Schatt. Much like talking to you, it's like showing a brick wall how to read braille.

As far as your first sentence, the fact of the matter is [i]if[/i] the accusations were true, then yes, it would be an act of war. But to defend their position when the validity of said things is still up in the air [b][i]baffles[/i][/b] the rest of us, I'm sure.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Lord Panda' date='17 February 2010 - 12:38 PM' timestamp='1266428326' post='2187696']
Because there is no point to pursuing it Schatt. Much like talking to you, it's like showing a brick wall how to read braille. [/quote]
If there's "no point" to showing that your alliance is the victim and not the instigator, then you should shut up and take the beating you deserve for not caring.
[quote name='Lord Panda' date='17 February 2010 - 12:38 PM' timestamp='1266428326' post='2187696']
As far as your first sentence, the fact of the matter is [i]if[/i] the accusations were true, then yes, it would be an act of war. But to defend their position when the validity of said things is still up in the air [b][i]baffles[/i][/b] the rest of us, I'm sure.
[/quote]
Say that the Veneke speech is fake. Even so, if the IP evidence givn to GLoF is a 57th forgery, then 57th has still committed an aggressive act of war on GLoF without regard to the Veneke speech. Your key to becoming the defending victim is to show that you did not fake the evidence. You regard anyone that comments on it as "e-lawyers" or "Computer Science III" students, but you refuse to bring in someone with real credentials. Why? If 57th knows they are right and their supposed-honor hinges on it, the gaping gap in logic is why you're not vindicating yourselves. The looming peg that fills that hole is that you cannot do it.

[Coloradia]

Schatt, please stop. All you are is a fancy Charles the Great. You are here out of your hatred, dislike, grudge, whatever it may be against the 57th or Ven. You really bring nothing to the matter other than proving yourself to be a has-been who still yearns for the spotlight.

Edit: Missed the o in pr[b]o[/b]ving

Edited February 17, 2010 by The Great One

[Lord Panda]

Believe what you want.

It's what everyone else doing.

Congratulations, welcome to the Kool Kids Klub.

[agafaba]

[quote name='The Great One' date='17 February 2010 - 06:13 PM' timestamp='1266430431' post='2187717']
Schatt, please stop. All you are is a fancy Charles the Great. You are here out of your hatred, dislike, grudge, whatever it may be against the 57th or Ven. You really bring nothing to the matter other than proving yourself to be a has-been who still yearns for the spotlight.

Edit: Missed the o in pr[b]o[/b]ving
[/quote]

regardless of your opinion of shatt, where do you find fault in his logic exactly?

[bbrownso]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='17 February 2010 - 11:32 AM' timestamp='1266427945' post='2187688']
The aggressive action is not GLoF's attack. [b] If the accusations against 57th are true,[/b] then it is 57th that committed an aggressive act of war. Erego, the treaty is already gone.
[/quote]

The accusations aren't true. Trust me.

[Schattenmann]

A very clever commentary

[Lennox]

To me, this signifies that the GLOF was 100% completely wrong in their initial accusations and are now just trying to save face. Had you really felt justified, you would have pounded 57th until you grew bored. You have defeated yourselves, well done.

[Xiao Weng]

[quote name='Brandon Simonson' date='17 February 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1266433397' post='2187756']
The accusations aren't true. Trust me.
[/quote]

Blind trust is as dangerous as warrantless paranoia. I prefer to verify findings.

[Charles the Great]

[quote name='Lord Panda' date='17 February 2010 - 02:38 PM' timestamp='1266428326' post='2187696']
Because there is no point to pursuing it Schatt. Much like talking to you, it's like showing a brick wall how to read braille. As far as your first sentence, the fact of the matter is [i]if[/i] the accusations were true, then yes, it would be an act of war. But to defend their position when the validity of said things is still up in the air [b][i]baffles[/i][/b] the rest of us, I'm sure.
[/quote]

There is no doubt the accusations are true........people I respect have told me such and the only people who debate the validity of our cb are people I could care less about.

[quote name='The Great One' date='17 February 2010 - 03:13 PM' timestamp='1266430431' post='2187717']
Schatt, please stop. All you are is a fancy Charles the Great. You are here out of your hatred, dislike, grudge, whatever it may be against the 57th or Ven. You really bring nothing to the matter other than proving yourself to be a has-been who still yearns for the spotlight.Edit: Missed the o in pr[b]o[/b]ving
[/quote]

I have no hatred or grudge.......dislike yes I will agree I dislike liars and snakes........I dont even know who you are anyway why are you here? Schatt has as much reason to be here as you. Your arguements are flawed and obviously bent to create a positive spin for the 57th with no regard to logic in the first place.

[quote name='Brandon Simonson' date='17 February 2010 - 04:03 PM' timestamp='1266433397' post='2187756']
The accusations aren't true. Trust me.
[/quote]

You are wrong. Why should we trust you?

[Charles the Great]

[quote name='Lennox' date='17 February 2010 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1266434625' post='2187780']
To me, this signifies that the GLOF was 100% completely wrong in their initial accusations and are now just trying to save face. Had you really felt justified, you would have pounded 57th until you grew bored. You have defeated yourselves, well done.
[/quote]

we did grow bored..........as far as I know only King David put up a good fight.

Edited February 17, 2010 by Charles the Great

[Coloradia]

[quote name='agafaba' date='17 February 2010 - 01:19 PM' timestamp='1266430797' post='2187726']
regardless of your opinion of shatt, where do you find fault in his logic exactly?
[/quote]
Perhaps in the fact that it has been proven to a high likelyhood that the IP is real? Yet GLoF and its few supporters here continue to refer to it as absolute fact that it was faked?

[Coloradia]

[quote name='Charles the Great' date='17 February 2010 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1266434789' post='2187787']
There is no doubt the accusations are true........people I respect have told me such and the only people who debate the validity of our cb are people I could care less about.



I have no hatred or grudge.......dislike yes I will agree I dislike liars and snakes........I dont even know who you are anyway why are you here? Schatt has as much reason to be here as you. Your arguements are flawed and obviously bent to create a positive spin for the 57th with no regard to logic in the first place.



You are wrong. Why should we trust you?
[/quote]
There is no doubt that the accusations are absolutely false and GLoF is completely in the wrong. People I respect agree with me on this matter and the only people who debate the fact that the CB is crap are those who are absolute fools and I could care less about them.

It was directed at Schatt, that was pretty clear I thought. As to my argument being flawed, please, show one flaw in it. I beg you to show one flaw. Dozens have been shown in your argument, yet you refuse to acknowledge them in the least. I am a master of logic! All of my conclusions have come from perfectly well thought out logic. Your "ZOMFG GLoF GLoF HAIL TEH MIGHTY GLoF KEEL 57TH LYAZ SCUM DIE" mind seems incapable of comprehending logic behind that of the lies and stubbornness that GLoF has exemplified in this series of events. You have not made a single post that contributed anything to this matter beyond becoming a laughingstock, much as your alliance is at this moment.

I am not wrong in the least, I am very correct as a matter of fact. You should trust me, but then again, I'm not sure I would want someone like you to listen to me, judging by your actions thus far I doubt you can add 1+1, because the evidence against what you continue to profess is quite near to as simple as that little mathematical equation.

[Solarius4]

[quote name='Lennox' date='17 February 2010 - 02:23 PM' timestamp='1266434625' post='2187780']
To me, this signifies that the GLOF was 100% completely wrong in their initial accusations and are now just trying to save face. Had you really felt justified, you would have pounded 57th until you grew bored. You have defeated yourselves, well done.
[/quote]

we got bored, declared peace, now we're done...

fin...

[Veneke]

[OOC]I don't want to start another thread for this...[/OOC]

[center][IMG]http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll214/Veneke1/57thFlagbkp4-acopy-1.png[/IMG][/center]
[center][i]Official 57th reply to GLOF.[/i][/center]

On the 12th of February 2010 at 11:42 pm (OOC: CN server time) the Grand Lodge of Freemasons declared war on their MDoAP partners the 57th Overlanders, citing the CB that screenshots given by myself were fake. A grand total of 42 minutes notice had been given to the 57th, and in particular to a person who was not available at the time. The entirety of this notice can be reproduced here:

"Hi!"

On the 17th of February 2010 at 10:07 pm (OOC: CN server time) the Grand Lodge of Freemasons withdrew from this war citing irreconcilable differences and maintaining that the "wrong" the 57th had done to GLOF had been satisfied after these 5 days of combat. A grand total of 0 minutes and 0 seconds notice had been given to the 57th, other than Thunderstrike relaying to us that GLOF had a plan to "resolve" this issue. A plan that they refused to tell either the 57th or Thunderstrike the details of.


With regards to the lack of communication, terms and anything approaching civilized discourse between alliances at war (and even at peace, and even allied...), I can only say that this is, without a shred of doubt in my mind, the worst display of poor diplomacy, bad government and indeed common sense in the history of this world.

When the 57th entered into this conflict (after rejecting GLOF's unbelievable terms), we set out the terms we thought were acceptable to end the war. They were not harsh, it was an agreement to disagree on the screenshots, an apology for the poor handling of the situation on GLOF's part, and a minor amount of reparations that directly stemmed from this poor handling (read: until the ceasefire). All of this was laid out earlier by the 57th.

We realize that GLOF are not going to acquiesce to these terms. It is unfortunate. However, the 57th will be content in that she stood her ground, and that the aggressor withdrew from the field leaving the 57th bloodied, but unbroken.

The 57th recognizes the withdrawal of GLOF forces from the field of combat.

[u][i]Signed,[/i][/u]

Veneke, Captain, Stubborn Irish Goat.
TheHIV, Commander, Resident Doctor.
DesertSon, Lieutenant, Grumpy Old Man.
Lord Panda, Lieutenant, President of Customer Relations.

[Solarius4]

[quote name='The Great One' date='17 February 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1266435627' post='2187813']
the only people who debate the fact that the CB is crap are those who are absolute fools and I could care less about them.[/quote]

looks like it's easier for me to be completely apathetic to your ramblings then...

enough with the he-said-she said, it's over and done with...

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Veneke' date='18 February 2010 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1266435905' post='2187819']
The 57th recognizes the withdrawal of GLOF forces from the field of combat.
[/quote]

Lol Nice!! The proverbial sting in the tail. Good luck in the future 57th. Just ... be a tad more selective in your allies, eh?

[Charles the Great]

[quote name='The Great One' date='17 February 2010 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1266435164' post='2187800']
Perhaps in the fact that it has been proven to a high likelyhood that the IP is real? Yet GLoF and its few supporters here continue to refer to it as absolute fact that it was faked?
[/quote]

since when has it been proven it is real? It has been proven to me it is fake. Yet all the naysayers continue to refer to it as fact it is real. And all the naysayers I have seen here are highly unreliable at best at worst outright liars, backroom dealers, and all have personal agendas that are far too complicated for a simple layman like myself to even want to worry about.

[Coloradia]

[quote name='Solarius4' date='17 February 2010 - 02:46 PM' timestamp='1266435990' post='2187823']
looks like it's easier for me to be completely apathetic to your ramblings then...

enough with the he-said-she said, it's over and done with...
[/quote]
But it was soooo fun to throw what he thought was a great stroke of genius, turn it 180 and throw it back in his face!

[quote]since when has it been proven it is real? It has been proven to me it is fake. Yet all the naysayers continue to refer to it as fact it is real. And all the naysayers I have seen here are highly unreliable at best at worst outright liars, backroom dealers, and all have personal agendas that are far too complicated for a simple layman like myself to even want to worry about.
[/quote]
Since when has it been proven to be fake? Oh never, thats right. As for fake, well, there have only been 3-4, maybe 5? I've lost track, different people showing how the distortion could be there without it being faked.

I have yet to see a single reliable, honest, trustworthy person who is completely sure the IP is real. Every person who has claimed so has been from GLoF, you know, the alliance that backstabs allies with no notice at all? Seems the only people who are completely sure it is a fake are highly unreliable liars, scum, and backstabbers.

Two can play this game and every statement you make can be flipped 180 and thrown back at you.

[b]The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the defendant. And the absolute failure of GLoF to convince anyone besides themselves that the IP is "faked" goes to show just how wrong GLoF is.[/b]

Edited February 17, 2010 by The Great One

[Charles the Great]

you lied to us. we came. we broke your stuff. we left.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Charles the Great' date='17 February 2010 - 02:55 PM' timestamp='1266436502' post='2187838']
you lied to us. we came. we broke your stuff. we left.

[/quote]
I'll be sure to keep the precedent in mind.

[obscurus]

[i]“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”[/i]

That's exactly what you, TGO - and the "people you respect" - are applying now (and in the last 5 pages of this thread and others) in this episode.
Oh, and don't worry about googling to search for the author of these words, sir - it's a phrase by Joseph Goebbels.

You have already determined the truth, in your own strange, twisted, perfect assumption of the truth, and who does not comply to your self-righteous interpretation of the facts is an "absolute fool and I could care less about them".

You know the name for this?
It's called Megalomania.

Oh, and I do not even comment about your troll-ish behaviour: that comes out by itself.

[Delta1212]

Do you have a sense of irony?

[Xiao Weng]

[quote name='The Great One' date='17 February 2010 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1266436327' post='2187834']
But it was soooo fun to throw what he thought was a great stroke of genius, turn it 180 and throw it back in his face!


Since when has it been proven to be fake? Oh never, thats right. As for fake, well, there have only been 3-4, maybe 5? I've lost track, different people showing how the distortion could be there without it being faked.

I have yet to see a single reliable, honest, trustworthy person who is completely sure the IP is real. Every person who has claimed so has been from GLoF, you know, the alliance that backstabs allies with no notice at all? Seems the only people who are completely sure it is a fake are highly unreliable liars, scum, and backstabbers.

Two can play this game and every statement you make can be flipped 180 and thrown back at you.

[b]The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the defendant. And the absolute failure of GLoF to convince anyone besides themselves that the IP is "faked" goes to show just how wrong GLoF is.[/b]
[/quote]

I missed the part where there's a global court of law where people can air their grievances and a neutral third party issues resolutions that both sides are legally bound to abide by.

Can anyone direct me to it? I need them to sign off on an exemption.

[obscurus]

Yes, D1212, and I exert it to my limit reading some posts here