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Top TBH GOV okays OOC for reasons to PZI


CloudGT4

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I rogued a TBH nation today do to some OOC issues with Timeline. Top Brass in The Black Hand. Those issus I will not bring to IC isssues. I declared but did not attack the nation, I actually sent peace right after declaration. TBH responed, well timeline responeded with a nation he is nation sitting. I still fired no counter attacks.

I had a middle man go and offer reps for peace for me.. so i could put Timeline on ignore, and move on with my CN career.

He said no.. I am bill locking you for OOC attacks on me.

[Logs Removed by Atlas]

So I ask the planet bob.. Is OOC allowed to be a cause for PZI in game? Is this what we as a cyber verse want in government of alliances? Not to mention timeline also sent out emails of information on the sparta gov forums, and tried to send false logs of an attempt by me to coup my beloved Valhallan alliance. Good show.

Anyways, I will be accepting aid, from anyone who wishes to see this war go on. As i sued for peace was told no I will be bill locked. ;)

As for the sparta leaked gov info, i will post them later in the thread. as to night make a wall of text here.

Edited by Atlas
Logs removed since they contanied RL information
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How long have you been in Valhalla? This has a lot of potential right here and while my first instinct is to reccomend you go to your alliance for advice I applaud you on behalf of the peanut gallery for allowing us to participate in this potential drama. Again, you should pose this question to your alliance mates on your home boards at Valhalla, there are a lot of us who would love to know what response you get.

Cheers!

Edited by Thorgrum
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How long have you been in Valhalla? This has a lot of potential right here and while my first instinct is to reccomend you go to your alliance for advice I applaud you on behalf of the peanut gallery for allowing us to participate in this potential drama. Again, you should pose this question to your alliance mates on your home boards at Vallahalla, there are a lot of us who would love to know what response you get.

Cheers!

I was in Valhalla for around 400 or 500 days. They have ejected me do to these Falsified Logs from TBH. I don't wish to add to drama..

I am simply asking is OOC a fair reason to PZI a player.. Something the Karma War was supposedly gonna change. That PZI's were bad.

Now according to Timeline, LOSS will also be participating in this PZI. Which on one end amazes me it takes this many people to fight little ol me. On another.. it shows that the gang banging hasn't changed.. just the sides of power that do it now.

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This whole thing seems messed up.

You attacked him for OOC reasons? If those reasons had something to do with the game (like if he said/did some OOC thing to you because of CN) then that's one thing, but if it was completely CN-unrelated, then why the attack? You alluded to fake logs in the last part of your case... I'm not sure if that's the OOC reason you mentioned or not, but if it is, it's certainly CN-related (and not really OOC... look at it as forging a telegram).

Then we get to defending himself with a nation he's sitting. Very, very bad idea.

What's wrong with defending their member? Regardless of WHY you made the attack, if you commit an ingame act of war against an alliance's member, they'll probably hit back. Yeah, you offered peace... But as a general rule, if someone rogues you, you beat on him for a couple days to show people that attacking you has consequences. A lot of rogues have a "change of heart" when the big guns show up to play. If you let them off without some bruises, you're sending a message that roguing you has no consequences.

Now, the PZI... If that's the case, I wholeheartedly agree with you. But for the life of me I can't figure out where you got the PZI thing from.

-Bama

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Now according to Timeline, LOSS will also be participating in this PZI. Which on one end amazes me it takes this many people to fight little ol me. On another.. it shows that the gang banging hasn't changed.. just the sides of power that do it now.

LOSS couldn't even keep someone like Barakady at PZI, so I doubt you've really got much to worry about.

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I am simply asking is OOC a fair reason to PZI a player.. Something the Karma War was supposedly gonna change. That PZI's were bad.

Okay I will answer seriously.

Fairness is subjective, the karma war has had a lot heaped on it but in reality it cannot change the essence of the game. Which is a political simulation that one has a nation to represent and project themselves with. PZI is bad, in my opinion and that of a lot of people. That being said its still a tool that can be used to produce a desired result and given the mechanics of the game its still viable, lest it be changed by admin.

So the answer is you should engage your opponnet and attempt to find a resolution in a mature fashion, one in which you accept responsibility for your actions in a way that exhibits humility. Often people will give you the benefit of the doubt, this planet is littered with people who have recieved second chances. If not then you must move on as best you can.

Good luck

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This whole thing seems messed up.

You attacked him for OOC reasons? If those reasons had something to do with the game (like if he said/did some OOC thing to you because of CN) then that's one thing, but if it was completely CN-unrelated, then why the attack? You alluded to fake logs in the last part of your case... I'm not sure if that's the OOC reason you mentioned or not, but if it is, it's certainly CN-related (and not really OOC... look at it as forging a telegram).

Then we get to defending himself with a nation he's sitting. Very, very bad idea.

What's wrong with defending their member? Regardless of WHY you made the attack, if you commit an ingame act of war against an alliance's member, they'll probably hit back. Yeah, you offered peace... But as a general rule, if someone rogues you, you beat on him for a couple days to show people that attacking you has consequences. A lot of rogues have a "change of heart" when the big guns show up to play. If you let them off without some bruises, you're sending a message that roguing you has no consequences.

Now, the PZI... If that's the case, I wholeheartedly agree with you. But for the life of me I can't figure out where you got the PZI thing from.

-Bama

[8:42:40 AM] CloudGT4: so lets play

[9:23:53 AM] CloudGT4: so am i zi'd

[9:23:55 AM] CloudGT4: pzi'd

[9:24:13 AM] CloudGT4: or we just gonna go for a week just to get the testosrone out

[9:24:21 AM] CloudGT4: as i know thats u on mags nation

[9:24:35 AM] Simon: i am nation sitting for mag yes

[9:24:44 AM] Simon: but you will also have some other friends join in

[9:24:58 AM] Simon: LoSS seem less then impress with your remarks about them

and ofc we have others in TBH that would like to hit you

[9:25:24 AM] CloudGT4: word.. so looks liek we are gonna go for the ride

[9:25:24 AM] Simon: I will talk to the other gov and see what will happen

[9:25:50 AM] Simon: as from the ooc attacks on me, im in the frame of mine to bill lock you and wait for your nation to be deleted

there bama.. OOC

also here is another person going for talks of peace.

[09:49:19] [removed to protect the innocent]] <The_Fallen[bTO]> he knows it was his fault and he's even willing to pay reperations to your nations.

[09:49:19] []] <Timeline> 1 second please

[09:49:19] []] <The_Fallen[bTO]> mkai

[09:49:19] []] <Timeline> ok back

[09:49:19] []] <Timeline> sorry about that

[09:49:19] []] <The_Fallen[bTO]> np

[09:49:19] [The_]] <The_Fallen[bTO]> so... you think peace reperations are workable?

[09:49:39] []] of course

[09:49:49] [T]] the fun thing to do would be start another alliance war

[09:49:54] []] but that'd be messy

[09:50:06] [CloudGT4] They got loss backing them

[09:50:18] []] <Timeline> nope

[09:50:18] [] <Timeline> i do not sorry

One other thing Bamabuc I am not sorry cause there big guns came out.. I triple there alliances avg NS.. Nor does the threat of loss scare me. I have an alliance that is willing to give me a chance to repair my bad image in this game. Or the one I supposedly have. So I need peace to join this alliance. I offered reps, and was turne

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I have an alliance that is willing to give me a chance to repair my bad image in this game. Or the one I supposedly have. So I need peace to join this alliance. I offered reps, and was turne

I was just going to disregard this thread as more of your shenanigans, I don't post on the OWF normally. But in my opinion you have reached your limit of chances to repair your image, and even if you should manage to pull through and even against all odds convince CJ to let you back in considering the bs you have pulled lately at least one Norn will never forget this.

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LOSS couldn't even keep someone like Barakady at PZI, so I doubt you've really got much to worry about.

Just so it is stated, for the OP poster and the quoted poster, LoSS has never believed in nor practiced PZI/EZI. Barakady was a special case. Every time we left that nation alone he came back causing issues, but he was never sentenced to PZI. As for the above stated confutation, I have been away from my thrown for the weekend and as such away from military reports, but from what I gather......LOSS has no clue who you are. BUT, If you attacked TBH, weapons or not, then you do have issues your going to have to deal with. Timeline knows where we stand. You can always come to #loss on coldfront if you want to talk about things, but attacking first like you did doesn't help your cause any.

~Slade

Edited by Lord Slade
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Why don't the 2 of you just go at it, and leave your alliance mates out of it. Seems this is a problem that would be best taken care of by the individuals and not other uninvolved parties that don't need to be brought into the mess.

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CloudGT4, for an OOC reason you attacked in-game (=IC) a third party that (arguably) wasn't even related with that OOC matter...Now that you're attacked back you come here and claim that OOC and IC should be kept separated...

:psyduck:

For some reason I'm not convinced that you're right.

(And yes, maybe I completely misinterpreted all of this; in that case I blame your lack of clarity, Cloud. Understanding what you write is not easy!)

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The following is my own opinion, not the opinion of Valhalla or the Valhalla government. Yeah, yeah yeah...when the moment comes that you are in this position, you'll be saying it too. <_<

Anyway, attacking someone for OOC reasons (War reason: 9/7/2009 7:46:23 AM "tell timeline Hi" ) in my book pretty much eliminates any complaint you have when someone else OOC decides that they don't like it and will do something about it. Using a nation you are sitting is cheesy (etiquette demands you seek permission to use a nation in an aggressive war, even a counter attack from the owning player unless it has been previously given), but then the IC rules are out the window anyway.

Without question, if it is as the logs suggest and this individual intends to force you out of the game for this, that reflect very poorly on them as a player. I would suggest that it most likely will have at least short term IC diplomatic consequences for TBH if they assist in this effort. But once again, when you engage in a war for OOC reasons, you have given up your right to complain if someone decides to do something about it.

The comparison was made between this and the NSO v. RAD situation. They are not the same thing. The RAD attack on a NSO nation was done IC and by the player who owns the nation in question.

I've gotten to know CloudGT4 on IRC and in the Valhalla forums and would describe him as someone who is prone to rash talk when bored, but not so much rash actions. If he acted out of impulse and immediately tried to remedy the situation I believe him. In the past he was a very loyal member of Valhalla, in good times and in bad.

He should have been allowed to offer up reps and be done with this. Without question he is at fault. However, the actions of Timeline and TBH seem to be outside the mainstream and at best raise an eyebrow at worst reflect an attitude that they seem to think that OOC reasons are perfectly acceptable for anything and they are all too happy to make this as personal and OOC as it can possibly be.

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am i reading this right? did someone lose a fiancee over CN? i dont know if that's the saddest thing i've ever heard, or the funniest.

Thats how I took it, and it would be sad, laying grounds to CN is " Digital Crack " The Horror stories of addiction, I have now heard them all.

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I rogued a TBH nation today do to some OOC issues with Timeline. Top Brass in The Black Hand. Those issus I will not bring to IC isssues.

As for the sparta leaked gov info, i will post them later in the thread. as to night make a wall of text here.

You rogued a nation due to OOC issues. But you don't want that discussed in the thread, just the fact that you were counter-attacked for seemingly OOC reasons that had nothing to do with your own declaration? Also, these "falsified logs" were the reason why you were ejected from Valhalla, as opposed to declaring war without authorization? If you post leaked info from Sparta, I think they might get in on the PZI, and they would be completely justified.

I question whether either of you have ever spoken to a girl after reading the op.

I laughed.

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Hello BoB

I have been reading this and felt I should reply.

First of all to who are here, I never OOC attacked Cloud he in fact he OOC attacked me, this can be found here: [Logs Edited out by Atlas] as you can see from the screen short, he OOC attacks me over something in game, nothing to do with me as a person (The reason for the attacks).

Also to add I have never asked or requested LoSS to help me in this matter, the fact cloud seem to bring them up in everything and anything to do with TBH would be his issue not mine.

Now down to the facts, at the time I was asked by The Fallen from BTO it was no longer then 5 mins after this had gone down, I was very upset and in the mind set I was in yes, I would have PZI for his actions, how ever like in many heated moments things are said that you can not take back, but actions speak louder then words.

We will not PZI Cloud, nor force him out of the game, more then likely we will ZI or ZT him for his action I am not sure and will not make that judgement with out talking to the other government members within The Black Hand.

Now some of you rightfully so do not care what happens and you are here for the drama and the lolz, but I will say this.

At no time did I OOC attack cloud nor did I attack him, he attacked us, that is proven by the attack logs, as for the nation I am sitting, the owner of that nation is a good friend of mine, He entrusted his nation for safe keeping and I know full well if he was here he would have done the same thing.

Also to note Cloud never attacked me (my nation) he attacked someone else in the alliance.

All said and done this war only happen because cloud declared war on TBH, now he calls this a joke attack and meant nothing, my reference to NSO and RAD was about the joke war, how it turned in to an alliance war very quickly, over a “joke attack”.

I have to say sorry to both those alliances for using your names in my reasoning to point something, I do not support or support your actions in that war, it is what it is.

So in closing, cloud will now say and do anything to try and get people on his side from fake logs to stories in the back ground, all I can say to those who listen, make sure you check the facts or if it has any.

If you have any questions, I am on IRC, I can be found in #CN-Blackhand

Thank you all for your time.

*Quick note, the owner of the nation i am sitting just texted me, he is in full support of this.

Edited by Atlas
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Hello BoB

I have been reading this and felt I should reply.

First of all to who are here, I never OOC attacked Cloud he in fact he OOC attacked me, this can be found here: [Logs edited out by Atlas] as you can see from the screen short, he OOC attacks me over something in game, nothing to do with me as a person (The reason for the attacks).

I see something that tells me that the two of you have an OOC relationship that you allowed to bleed into my game. I also see that your log screen shot needs to be rated 'PG-13' or 'R'. I also think that neither of you are looking particularly good at this moment.

Had Cloud asked...and it's a pity he didn't...I'd say you weren't worth an IC bullet and that he should move on. Why he talks to you at all OOC is a mystery that only testosterone imbalances can explain.

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