[Myworld]

I was looking over the costs of the wonders with the formula that is so far being set to use. While I understand it cost a lot to go to the moon or to mars the comparison to who buys it and the cost to them compared to others is extremely costly to the larger nations vs the a smaller nation.

With the latest war many of the larger nations are now smaller and going to be a higher advantage to purchasing these wonders over many of the larger nations. With the calculations formula being used:

nation 1: 65k NS and 5k tech
nation 2: 100k NS and 8k tech
nation 3: 18k NS and 500 tech

Mars Base - $100,000,000 + (6,000 * (Nation Strength - Technology Purchased * 2)))
Moon Base - $50,000,000 + (3,000 * (Nation Strength - Technology Purchased * 2)))

Nation 1:
Mars cost:
100,000,000 + (6,000 * (65,000 - (5000 *2)))
100,000,000 + (6000 * 55,000)
100,000,000 + 330,000,000 = 430 mil

Moon cost:
50,000,000 + (3000 * (65,000 - (5000 *2)))
50,000,000 + (3000 * 55,000)
50,000,000 + 165,000,000 = 215 mil

Nation 2:
Mars cost:
100,000,000 + (6,000 * (100,000 - (8000 *2)))
100,000,000 + (6000 * 84,000)
100,000,000 + 504,000,000 = 604 mil

Moon cost:
50,000,000 + (3000 * (100,000 - (8000 *2)))
50,000,000 + (3000 * 84,000)
50,000,000 + 252,000,000 = 302 mil

Nation 3:
Mars cost:
100,000,000 + (6,000 * (18,000 - (500 *2)))
100,000,000 + (6000 * 17,000)
100,000,000 + 102,000,000 = 202 mil

Moon cost:
50,000,000 + (3000 * (18,000 - (500 *2)))
50,000,000 + (3000 * 17,000)
50,000,000 + 51,000,000 = 101 mil

With the examples above you can see that a smaller nation that has been beat up and with a reasonable war chest can easily pickup the wonders over a nation that has considerable more NS and tech. The cost in nation 3 goes down considerably more with their lower NS if they have even more tech on hand that the average 16k nation. I would suggest adding in an min infra and tech levels for the purchase. Such as 5000 infra and 1000 tech. Without setting some type of bottom then everyone under planet bob will have it. Smaller nations will not have technically developed enough as a nation to actually support the real cost of going off Planet Bob. Then reversal goes for the larger nations with it costing them extremely more than the lower ranks to get the same benefit.

Now, there could only be 1 reason why my calculations are off above and that is if the * 2 is instead of going against the value of tech, but after the subtraction of the tech value against the NS, and that value is * 2. Then the cost raises considerably, and for an extremely large nation it can easily hit over 800 mil and keep going depending on their NS and tech values.

I would think that there would need be some capped value on the purchase.


edit: corrected typo calc's for the nation1 on Mars base oops

This post has been edited by Myworld: 23 July 2009 - 02:50 PM

[ender land]

If getting beat down in a war was in any possibility profitable I would worry about this.

But it's not.

Quote

Without setting some type of bottom then everyone under planet bob will have it.

Quote

Mars Base - $100,000,000 + (6,000 * (Nation Strength - Technology Purchased * 2)))
Moon Base - $50,000,000 + (3,000 * (Nation Strength - Technology Purchased * 2)))

There is a bottom.


Also, a minor note, your math for the first nation is incorrect for the Mars Base.

[Jtkode]

I agree with you Myworld, its way expensive for big nations

This post has been edited by Jtkode: 23 July 2009 - 08:40 AM

[Derwood1]

So the best thing to do is buy this right after a big beat down......wonder who will be getting it first?

[ender land]

Derwood1, on Jul 23 2009, 08:48 AM, said:

So the best thing to do is buy this right after a big beat down......wonder who will be getting it first?

Me.

[iMatt]

But isn't it not as good to "store" 8% of your population if you're only at 3k infra, rather than at a larger infra? That means it's more profitable to larger nations, thus the increased cost. I suppose it depends on what "store" means (anyone know?).

I actually think *all* wonder prices should scale with NS, because they can afford it.

[BMitt King]

imatt15, on Jul 23 2009, 01:23 PM, said:

I suppose it depends on what "store" means (anyone know?).

Stores

[Pikel]

I'm sure people at very high nation strengths make less than most mid nation strength nations. Personally, I make 11.5 million after bills. I'm sure 90k nation strength nations can make up to 18 million if they don't have a large military. Nation strength is based upon:

Land Purchased * 1.5 + Tanks Deployed * .15 + Tanks Defending * .20 + Cruise Missiles * 10 + ((Nuclear Purchased^2)*10) + Technology Purchased * 5 + Infrastructure Purchased * 3 + Actual Military * .02 + Aircraft Rating Totals * 5 + Navy Rating Totals * 10

Land gives you virtually no profit.
Military lowers the amount you make a day.
Technology gives you virtually no profit.
Infrastructure lowers the money you make after ~17k infra.

It being based on nation strength isn't too horrible, but I think it should be capped at a certain point. Like mass you'd ever have to pay is like 500 million +- depending on the wonder.

This post has been edited by Pikel: 24 July 2009 - 11:17 AM

[Rooman33]

Pikel, I had the exact same concerns. It's like a diminishing ROI for larger nations, is it not? It would seem to me that the cost should be relative to infra exclusively, rather than just (NS - tech), because tech is not the only non-income boosting yet NS-boosting factor (land and military also, as you pointed out, inflate NS but do not significantly increase a nation's surplus ratio - in fact, increased military decreases said ratio).

This post has been edited by Rooman33: 24 July 2009 - 12:54 PM

[steeldor]

Does infra really lower income at about 17k? Why do people still buy it then?

[Jtkode]

Pikel, on Jul 24 2009, 05:16 PM, said:

I'm sure people at very high nation strengths make less than most mid nation strength nations. Personally, I make 11.5 million after bills. I'm sure 90k nation strength nations can make up to 18 million if they don't have a large military. Nation strength is based upon:

Land Purchased * 1.5 + Tanks Deployed * .15 + Tanks Defending * .20 + Cruise Missiles * 10 + ((Nuclear Purchased^2)*10) + Technology Purchased * 5 + Infrastructure Purchased * 3 + Actual Military * .02 + Aircraft Rating Totals * 5 + Navy Rating Totals * 10

Land gives you virtually no profit.
Military lowers the amount you make a day.
Technology gives you virtually no profit.
Infrastructure lowers the money you make after ~17k infra.

It being based on nation strength isn't too horrible, but I think it should be capped at a certain point. Like mass you'd ever have to pay is like 500 million +- depending on the wonder.

I agree, it should be capped at a certain level, that would make the wonder so much better.

[Count Rupert]

steeldor, on Jul 24 2009, 03:21 PM, said:

Does infra really lower income at about 17k? Why do people still buy it then?

Depends on your resource build, whether you improve swap and the wonders you have as to what point you hit the wall and start getting diminishing returns. Without wonders it can occur as early as ~13k.

[Penguin]

I didn't want to start another thread about the moon/mars wonders, but does anyone know if the "gradually increasing" and "gradually decreasing" happiness benefits of the mars and moon wonders respectively are linear or exponential? In other words, does the bonus increase/decrease by the same amount each day? It is also entirely possible that this aspect was intentionally left to the players to figure out on our own, but if it wasn't, it'd certainly be a helpful thing to know before buying.

This post has been edited by Penguin: 27 July 2009 - 09:20 PM

[Kung Fu Geeks]

I've done math using my nation and several other nations.

Yup, its alot cheaper to buy when you are smaller, however you get a much higher return on your investment to spend the money instead on infrastructure. I even figured out what the costs would be if you dropped as much NS as possible to still save money (basically planes soldiers and tanks, and most, but not all nukes) and infrastructure is still a better return. The only time that infrastructure is not a better return is when you approach the point where infra loses you money (17k was stated above).

So basically this means, yeah, its cheaper for smaller nations to get them, but they'd be stupid to do so.

[Obiwan]

also having tech increases its cost despite subtracting twice your tech lvl. I think having a multiplier of tech reduction at least 5 preferably 6 to make the wonder more worth its cost while also promoting having more tech instead of taxing those buying the wonder for their tech.

[Kung Fu Geeks]

Obiwan, on Aug 1 2009, 02:00 PM, said:

also having tech increases its cost despite subtracting twice your tech lvl. I think having a multiplier of tech reduction at least 5 preferably 6 to make the wonder more worth its cost while also promoting having more tech instead of taxing those buying the wonder for their tech.

Tech does make it cheaper, it just does not reduce the cost, instead a nation with a high tech ratio will be able to buy the wonder for less than an equal sized nation with a low tech ratio.

Yes if you buy more tech, the cost will increase, but your nation gets bigger and stronger as well, so the price should increase.

Personally i think its fine how it is.