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Dear Finner
We need you to assist us once again, but this time on the cybernation’s forums. If you could please post this on the Cybernation’s forums we would be grateful yet again.
This will be the last time we will contact you to post a message.
We need you to assist us once again, but this time on the cybernation’s forums. If you could please post this on the Cybernation’s forums we would be grateful yet again.
This will be the last time we will contact you to post a message.
Anyway, down to their message.
Declaration of Existence and War
For two months we have been building, for two months we have hidden in the shadows and planned our mission. Now that the time is right, now that the opportunity is here we reveal ourselves to the world.
We are the Partisans of the Satire (PTS) we were formed in the wake of the split within We Are Perth Army, when Mindwrekz and Vanadin failing as well as Shortstar had been found to have created a secret and private alliance.
This new and subversive group was comprised of those 3 selected few. They were at the top end of WAPA’s Government, with Mindwerkz been a Firm member and Vanadrin Failing WAPA’s Minister for Foreign Affairs. Shortstar was also a Deputy Minister of Defence.
Many of you may it hard to believe that such members who appeared to be so loyal, so trustworthy could commit such an act. That act is nothing short of treason, all 3 were charged with duel membership see section II part 1, part A.
“Cannot be seeking dual membership to WAPA and any other alliance.”
Vanadrin Failing was the only one of the three to be charged with attempted poaching of an allied alliance, namely 1 Touch Football and specifically Auctor who was then second in command of 1TF.
All three were placed in WAPA’s High Court and subsequently charged with treason. All three bar Shortstar were given their sentence. They were expelled from WAPA. But that is not the end of their crimes. Shortstar attempted to stage a coup d'etat. But we will come to that later.
Here are logs and screen shots from Vanadrin Failings talk with Auctor when he reviled his plans to create an alliance and convince Auctor to join his ranks.
Here are also some screen shots, which also pin point that Shortstar was involved.
http://i264.photobuc...08/VFsfolly.jpg
http://i264.photobuc...8/VFsfolly2.jpg
Now onto Mindwerkz
I hope those logs were clear as to what Mindwerkz and Vanadrin Failing have planned and carried out.
Now onto Shortstar, this was his last statement before he ran to House Atreides with his tail between his legs. As you can see he insulted not only the Government but also the membership of WAPA. Indeed he went so far as to PM this to everyone in the alliance in an attempt to stage a coup. He is also a founding member and he created the forums that House Atreides use.
All we want is the following from House Atreides.
Our demands are as follows.
1. An apology by the Government and Founding members of the gang known as House Atreides. Outlining what they have done and the damaged they caused. For there secrecy and dishonesty. This is also non negotiable
2. The extradition of Shortstar to WAPA for ZI. Or alternatively to us. This is negotiable.
We are also giving warning to Zenith who protects this gang, so long as House Atreides refuse to meet are terms you shall also face attack. A deadline was given to Londo of Athens.
To House Atreides’s trade partners both technology and resource. You also have until the deadline to cancel your trades with them should you decide not to heed our warning you shall also be attacked.
The following statement was issued on Jun 25th to Londo of Athens by use of email.
Zenith was also given a letter to drop protection for House Atreides a number of days prior.
When the deadline passes in 4 days time if any of the above alliances continue to trade both in technology and resources, they will be attacked.
We are the Partisans of the Satire (PTS) we were formed in the wake of the split within We Are Perth Army, when Mindwrekz and Vanadin failing as well as Shortstar had been found to have created a secret and private alliance.
This new and subversive group was comprised of those 3 selected few. They were at the top end of WAPA’s Government, with Mindwerkz been a Firm member and Vanadrin Failing WAPA’s Minister for Foreign Affairs. Shortstar was also a Deputy Minister of Defence.
Many of you may it hard to believe that such members who appeared to be so loyal, so trustworthy could commit such an act. That act is nothing short of treason, all 3 were charged with duel membership see section II part 1, part A.
“Cannot be seeking dual membership to WAPA and any other alliance.”
Vanadrin Failing was the only one of the three to be charged with attempted poaching of an allied alliance, namely 1 Touch Football and specifically Auctor who was then second in command of 1TF.
All three were placed in WAPA’s High Court and subsequently charged with treason. All three bar Shortstar were given their sentence. They were expelled from WAPA. But that is not the end of their crimes. Shortstar attempted to stage a coup d'etat. But we will come to that later.
Here are logs and screen shots from Vanadrin Failings talk with Auctor when he reviled his plans to create an alliance and convince Auctor to join his ranks.
Quote
[15:15] Session Ident: Vanadrin[WAPA] (Coldfront, Auctor[1TF])
[15:15] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> OK, fired off a PM reply, but I'd like to try to discuss things in real time for the little bit of time I have here if you still have any concerns.
[15:15] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
[15:15] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm a really simple sort of minded person is what
[15:16] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> My biggest concern is that you seem to misunderstand our intentions witht he secrecy. ^^; Can you read the last bit first and tell me if it makes sense?
[15:17] <Auctor[1TF]> I can understand it
[15:18] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't know if I'd be able to pull that sort of nuance in my own mind is what
[15:19] <Auctor[1TF]> as for the Finner thing
[15:19] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> Ah, OK. Heh. I just didn't want you thinking we were schemeing and plotting against WAPA. Hell, the fact that we've only got three people to start with is a testiment to how strongly we feel about unwittingly poaching.
[15:22] <Auctor[1TF]> aye, I understand
[15:23] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm very simple minded, if you're not willing to discuss things openly with people, I generally don't do those sorts of things b/c of the uncomfortableness for that that engenders
[15:24] <Auctor[1TF]> that's kind of my barrier on that, it's not really a concern so much that you're using this to gain a consideration that you might not have elsewise had so much as the set up of how you're going about it makes me queezy
[15:25] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> There are some folk we likely COULD discuss this with. But we've got some.... hostile elements.... in WAPA who are looking for a reason to get rid of us because of our dedication to fact and justice and to our desires to help WAPA evolve.
[15:25] <Auctor[1TF]> I understand that
[15:25] <Auctor[1TF]> and certainly, WAPA does this in cycles
[15:26] <Auctor[1TF]> they burn out key members, those members move on, WAPA does its thing
[15:27] <Auctor[1TF]> but my concern isn't about you leaving WAPA, it's the nature in which you're going about it that if I were to do it in the same sort of manner myself, I'd feel very uncomfortable with
[15:28] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> Ah, OK... so your discomfort is a personal thing... It's not how YOU'D go about it, but your not necessarily judging us for our decision to follow this path?
[15:28] <Auctor[1TF]> correct
[15:29] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm bad at expressing it, sorry for the concern that may have caused for you
[15:29] <Auctor[1TF]> if I were to go about this
[15:29] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> No worries. Now that we've cleared it up a bit, I don't feel as bad.
[15:29] <Auctor[1TF]> what I would do
[15:30] <Auctor[1TF]> is I'd make it clear that I was stepping down at the time, then a couple weeks later, I'd leave after giving somewhat ample warning, then I'd set things up as far as what I would do in the future
[15:31] <Auctor[1TF]> I've certainly hopped AA's, I've left 1TF, and then Apoc, but one of the things I tried to do carefully was that I didn't make plans before I left either alliance
[15:31] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> And that's SORT OF what will be happening. We'll be giving WAPA a few weeks to prepare from when we announce it. My problem is that I have NO experience with setting up this sort of infrastructure, so I need lots of time and discussion to feel like it's getting done right.
[15:32] <Auctor[1TF]> interesting
[15:32] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> Nominations for the New Firm and Council will begin at the beginning of May. The elections happen a week or two afterward. We'll be declining our nominations right away, so by the time the new folks are elected, they'll have had time to get ready.
[15:33] <Auctor[1TF]> I've sort of a strict sort of stupid ethical mind is all, my brain doesn't do the two masters thing
-
[15:34] Vanadrin[WAPA] is
[15:34] Vanadrin[WAPA] is a registered nick
[15:34] Vanadrin[WAPA] on +#cn-1TF &#cnwapa
[15:34] Vanadrin[WAPA] using frozen.coldfront.net Welcome to Coldfront!
[15:34] Vanadrin[WAPA] End of /WHOIS list.
-
[15:34] <Auctor[1TF]> I say this being a party to another sort of situation with similarities in another alliance 1TF is closely allied to
[15:35] <Auctor[1TF]> with its own sort of nuance as well
[15:35] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> I hear you, and I don't see it as Two Masters at this point.
[15:35] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
[15:36] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> It's more like building a new house while still living in your current one. you're not going to just let the current place go to hell 'cause people will still be living there.
[15:36] <Auctor[1TF]> setting up a shadow gov't for another alliance while simultaneously holding a position in an alliance gov't would kill my small mind lol
[15:36] <Auctor[1TF]> I've the strictest admiration for your talents and am sure you can pull it off in an ethical manner
[15:37] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> Heh... I'm doing my best to hold to those ethics, trust me.
[15:37] * Auctor[1TF] nods
[15:37] <Auctor[1TF]> I try not to let myself get into gray areas is how I handle that >_>
[15:37] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> Any ethical breach would impair the very idea of what we're trying to do: Set up an alliance that's recognised for fairness.
[15:37] <Auctor[1TF]> right
[15:38] <Auctor[1TF]> being honest with you, I won't join this project
[15:38] <Auctor[1TF]> that's flat out
[15:38] <Auctor[1TF]> that's the answer
[15:15] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> OK, fired off a PM reply, but I'd like to try to discuss things in real time for the little bit of time I have here if you still have any concerns.
[15:15] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
[15:15] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm a really simple sort of minded person is what
[15:16] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> My biggest concern is that you seem to misunderstand our intentions witht he secrecy. ^^; Can you read the last bit first and tell me if it makes sense?
[15:17] <Auctor[1TF]> I can understand it
[15:18] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't know if I'd be able to pull that sort of nuance in my own mind is what
[15:19] <Auctor[1TF]> as for the Finner thing
[15:19] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> Ah, OK. Heh. I just didn't want you thinking we were schemeing and plotting against WAPA. Hell, the fact that we've only got three people to start with is a testiment to how strongly we feel about unwittingly poaching.
[15:22] <Auctor[1TF]> aye, I understand
[15:23] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm very simple minded, if you're not willing to discuss things openly with people, I generally don't do those sorts of things b/c of the uncomfortableness for that that engenders
[15:24] <Auctor[1TF]> that's kind of my barrier on that, it's not really a concern so much that you're using this to gain a consideration that you might not have elsewise had so much as the set up of how you're going about it makes me queezy
[15:25] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> There are some folk we likely COULD discuss this with. But we've got some.... hostile elements.... in WAPA who are looking for a reason to get rid of us because of our dedication to fact and justice and to our desires to help WAPA evolve.
[15:25] <Auctor[1TF]> I understand that
[15:25] <Auctor[1TF]> and certainly, WAPA does this in cycles
[15:26] <Auctor[1TF]> they burn out key members, those members move on, WAPA does its thing
[15:27] <Auctor[1TF]> but my concern isn't about you leaving WAPA, it's the nature in which you're going about it that if I were to do it in the same sort of manner myself, I'd feel very uncomfortable with
[15:28] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> Ah, OK... so your discomfort is a personal thing... It's not how YOU'D go about it, but your not necessarily judging us for our decision to follow this path?
[15:28] <Auctor[1TF]> correct
[15:29] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm bad at expressing it, sorry for the concern that may have caused for you
[15:29] <Auctor[1TF]> if I were to go about this
[15:29] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> No worries. Now that we've cleared it up a bit, I don't feel as bad.
[15:29] <Auctor[1TF]> what I would do
[15:30] <Auctor[1TF]> is I'd make it clear that I was stepping down at the time, then a couple weeks later, I'd leave after giving somewhat ample warning, then I'd set things up as far as what I would do in the future
[15:31] <Auctor[1TF]> I've certainly hopped AA's, I've left 1TF, and then Apoc, but one of the things I tried to do carefully was that I didn't make plans before I left either alliance
[15:31] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> And that's SORT OF what will be happening. We'll be giving WAPA a few weeks to prepare from when we announce it. My problem is that I have NO experience with setting up this sort of infrastructure, so I need lots of time and discussion to feel like it's getting done right.
[15:32] <Auctor[1TF]> interesting
[15:32] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> Nominations for the New Firm and Council will begin at the beginning of May. The elections happen a week or two afterward. We'll be declining our nominations right away, so by the time the new folks are elected, they'll have had time to get ready.
[15:33] <Auctor[1TF]> I've sort of a strict sort of stupid ethical mind is all, my brain doesn't do the two masters thing
-
[15:34] Vanadrin[WAPA] is
[15:34] Vanadrin[WAPA] is a registered nick
[15:34] Vanadrin[WAPA] on +#cn-1TF &#cnwapa
[15:34] Vanadrin[WAPA] using frozen.coldfront.net Welcome to Coldfront!
[15:34] Vanadrin[WAPA] End of /WHOIS list.
-
[15:34] <Auctor[1TF]> I say this being a party to another sort of situation with similarities in another alliance 1TF is closely allied to
[15:35] <Auctor[1TF]> with its own sort of nuance as well
[15:35] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> I hear you, and I don't see it as Two Masters at this point.
[15:35] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
[15:36] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> It's more like building a new house while still living in your current one. you're not going to just let the current place go to hell 'cause people will still be living there.
[15:36] <Auctor[1TF]> setting up a shadow gov't for another alliance while simultaneously holding a position in an alliance gov't would kill my small mind lol
[15:36] <Auctor[1TF]> I've the strictest admiration for your talents and am sure you can pull it off in an ethical manner
[15:37] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> Heh... I'm doing my best to hold to those ethics, trust me.
[15:37] * Auctor[1TF] nods
[15:37] <Auctor[1TF]> I try not to let myself get into gray areas is how I handle that >_>
[15:37] <Vanadrin[WAPA]> Any ethical breach would impair the very idea of what we're trying to do: Set up an alliance that's recognised for fairness.
[15:37] <Auctor[1TF]> right
[15:38] <Auctor[1TF]> being honest with you, I won't join this project
[15:38] <Auctor[1TF]> that's flat out
[15:38] <Auctor[1TF]> that's the answer
Here are also some screen shots, which also pin point that Shortstar was involved.
http://i264.photobuc...08/VFsfolly.jpg
http://i264.photobuc...8/VFsfolly2.jpg
Now onto Mindwerkz
Quote
[16:41] Session Ident: Mindwerkz{WAPA} (Coldfront, Auctor[1TF])
[16:41] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so VF tells me hes talked to you about dune, being as this is the first time I have talked to you about it, what are your thoughts?
01[16:42] <Auctor[1TF]> my thoughts are 1) it's f%^* up to plan anything while a member of gov't of an alliance
01[16:42] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm sure you're plotting that course with a lot of consideration and carefulness
01[16:42] <Auctor[1TF]> but I'd be bothered if I put myself in the ethical position yall've put yourselves in
[16:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> this is the reason it is being kept secret, and why we wont be leaving until our terms are up
01[16:43] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
01[16:43] <Auctor[1TF]> you shouldn't have to keep it secret
01[16:43] <Auctor[1TF]> and I understand the impulse you're working with
[16:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> why do you think that? I think much more damage would be made if people knew I was looking to leave
01[16:43] <Auctor[1TF]> I wouldn't be able to walk the line yall are
01[16:44] <Auctor[1TF]> now
01[16:44] <Auctor[1TF]> if I was going to do what yall were doing
[16:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> there is alot of trust in those who are leaving, I think that would be greatly damaged if I were to tell them
01[16:44] <Auctor[1TF]> I wouldn't have set up forums until my term was over
[16:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well we want to be ready to go, and its not as if our duties are suffering
01[16:45] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't know how far you have progressed, but if you're negotiating a protectorate while still in gov't I wouldn't be pleased if I found out about it and I was one of those who didn't leave
[16:45] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no were not
[16:46] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> just an idea of who we are going to talk to
01[16:46] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm very poor with gray areas
01[16:46] <Auctor[1TF]> so
01[16:46] <Auctor[1TF]> this looks like a two masters dillemma to me
01[16:47] <Auctor[1TF]> and I understand why you'd say it's not
01[16:47] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm uncomfortable with it is my answer to what do I think
[16:47] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so would this still be the case after we have left office and moved on?
01[16:48] <Auctor[1TF]> well
01[16:48] <Auctor[1TF]> 1TF is getting ready for a war
[16:48] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I see that
01[16:48] <Auctor[1TF]> I can't desert under those conditions
[16:48] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> hehe, wouldnt expect you to
01[16:49] <Auctor[1TF]> and being honest, the way I percieve yall to have acted, and maybe wrongly, and the plan itself are not things that appeal to me
[16:50] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I think you are under the impression we have done more than we have
01[16:50] <Auctor[1TF]> I was actively poached by Mr. Failing right after having gotten back into 1TF ,gov
[16:50] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> poached?
[16:50] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> he just told me he talked to you about it
01[16:51] <Auctor[1TF]> he was trying to recruit me into it and to feel me out to go onto the boards
01[16:51] <Auctor[1TF]> and
[16:51] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> hmm, thats not the impression I was given
[16:51] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well thats a bit unfortunate
06[16:51] * Auctor[1TF] nods
[16:52] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> see I dont know you at all so I am going purely off what others have told me
[16:52] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> in fact I do belive this is the first time I have talked to you
01[16:52] <Auctor[1TF]> talked a bit back when I got the wild idea to move us all to brown
[16:53] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> ahh ok, that was a while ago yea
01[16:54] <Auctor[1TF]> I know Mr. Failing has a tendency to let his enthusiasm overwelm what looks like good judgement
[16:54] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I know finner likes ya but honestly while hes a good chap I heavily question his ideas when it comes to leadership so thats kind of a wash
01[16:54] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
[16:55] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no at this point we have a forum but that is little more than a place for the 3 involved to talk being as we live very far from each other
01[16:55] <Auctor[1TF]> what concerned me is he was asking me to come to these forums, and set up guides and programs and such for an eventual alliance
[16:55] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I know he has ideas of who he would want as a protectorate, Im not sure I agree with his ideas on that
01[16:56] <Auctor[1TF]> lol
01[16:56] <Auctor[1TF]> I know who he said to me
01[16:56] <Auctor[1TF]> and frankly that doesn't appeal to me either
01[16:56] <Auctor[1TF]> I've spent too long out of my own sort of diplomatic circle before coming back to 1TF
[16:57] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> are you sure he wasnt talkin about after launch? I ask because your guides if you set them up would be the only ones there
[16:57] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> its really nothing more than a chat group for those involved in the prelim planning
01[16:58] <Auctor[1TF]> I might have misinterpretted it
[16:58] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> either way I will ask him his intent
01[16:58] <Auctor[1TF]> all preliminary planning done secretly while members of an alliance gov't you want kept from the alliance also sets off warning bells
01[17:00] <Auctor[1TF]> did you pay much attention to what they did with the TSO/MCXA thing?
[17:00] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> your concerns are the exact reason for it being kept private. Your assuming that wapa is suffering by this which is not the case but an inference which is easily made. We wanted to avoid any such assumptions
01[17:00] <Auctor[1TF]> right
[17:00] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no idea really, not at all familiar with it
01[17:01] <Auctor[1TF]> it's not really about doing harm to WAPA
[17:01] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> its about not doing our job in wapa, which I would consider detrimental to wapa were it the case
01[17:02] <Auctor[1TF]> if someone asked me this with names attached I didn't like at all
01[17:02] <Auctor[1TF]> then I would probably have unpleasant names for it
01[17:02] <Auctor[1TF]>
[17:03] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> and that has alot to do with if you trust the compitance of those involved
01[17:03] <Auctor[1TF]> My opinion of Mr. Failing isn't as favorable as it once was
[17:03] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> as I said I dont know you, but you come highly recommended
01[17:04] <Auctor[1TF]> which I'll state honestly
[17:04] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> thats fair, I would rather have someone tell me something I didnt like honestly, than something I did like dishonestly
01[17:04] <Auctor[1TF]> he's tended to our alliance head mad at him with his pushes for a merge
[17:05] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well that has more to do with a lack of an answer than anything else
01[17:05] <Auctor[1TF]> he's a very socialable guy
01[17:06] <Auctor[1TF]> but I'd say his view of the politics of CN I've found to be uneducated >_>
01[17:07] <Auctor[1TF]> I've had to to make excuses for him with Mayz
[17:07] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> oh?
01[17:07] <Auctor[1TF]> which I don't like to do lol
01[17:08] <Auctor[1TF]> part of that
01[17:08] <Auctor[1TF]> is we don't know where we stand with WAPA very well anymore
[17:08] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I have talked mayzie, I like him a good deal
01[17:10] <Auctor[1TF]> this isn't so much helping firm up my knowledge of it
01[17:10] <Auctor[1TF]> 1TF's sort of grown up in the past couple months
[17:10] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> your really highlighting why we have been selective in talking to people about the new AA. Your getting the impression that we are not still working tword the best interest of wapa
01[17:10] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
01[17:10] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't know a thing about what you're doing about anything
01[17:10] <Auctor[1TF]> it's all what yall come to me with
01[17:11] <Auctor[1TF]> we just joined an MADP bloc
01[17:11] <Auctor[1TF]> picked up another nonchaining MDoAP
[17:11] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> the real question is if you belive someone have have a conversation on one hand that does not effect what happens on the other hand
01[17:13] <Auctor[1TF]> mind if I steer this away from the future and your plan and just talk about 1TF's relations with WAPA for a bit?
[17:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> sure, are you looking at a treaty discussion?
[17:14] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> or are you looking tword war?
01[17:14] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm actually more focused on we've fallen out of touch with yall
01[17:14] <Auctor[1TF]> not intentionally I'm sure
01[17:14] <Auctor[1TF]> but we rarely see WAPA .gov on IRC anymore
01[17:15] <Auctor[1TF]> hassman's busy with RL I know
[17:15] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yep, hes not government anymore either
01[17:15] <Auctor[1TF]> didn't even know that
[17:15] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> the firm is now me, prince buster, and broon
[17:15] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> broon is very busy in real life and I doubt he will run again, he tried not to run this time but I talked him into it
01[17:16] <Auctor[1TF]> I was surprised to hear Darkova was MoF and Joneleth was AWOL
[17:16] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I am too, do you know what happened to him at all?
01[17:16] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't
[17:16] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I have sent him emails and gotten no response
01[17:16] <Auctor[1TF]> know he worked late nights
01[17:17] <Auctor[1TF]> kinda has me curious
[17:17] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> me and him were friends but only over CN so other than his contact email I have no way to get ahold of him
[17:17] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> Im worried he may have died
01[17:17] <Auctor[1TF]> me too
01[17:17] <Auctor[1TF]> always struck me as a bizarre character
[17:17] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I really liked him and talked to him alot
01[17:18] <Auctor[1TF]> I remember one night I was just goofing off on #cnwapa, and ended up in a query with him that went on far too long about the lamest stuff lol
01[17:19] <Auctor[1TF]> hope he's alright
[17:19] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> hehe, yep hes a good chap
01[17:20] <Auctor[1TF]> Selindryl and Cyan leaving kinda cut down on yall's IRC actives
01[17:20] <Auctor[1TF]> good to see SaintKev back spamming out forums tho
[17:21] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yea that was pretty $%&@ed up. All in all Im glad they left as they clearly wernt loyal to wapa but that is an opinion I know is not shared by many.
01[17:21] <Auctor[1TF]> way I saw it
01[17:22] <Auctor[1TF]> they were justified in not being loyal anymore
[17:22] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well than you were misinformed
[17:22] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> Im not suprised, the hype about what happened was not the reality
01[17:22] <Auctor[1TF]> hey
01[17:22] <Auctor[1TF]> I got into the same position as Finner once
01[17:23] <Auctor[1TF]> 1TF didn't dump me, our allies came in and handled it
[17:23] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> you told someone to kill themself?
01[17:23] <Auctor[1TF]> I got brow beaten into someone was able to twist me into saying I threatened their life OOC
01[17:24] <Auctor[1TF]> you know how easy Finner is to provoke
[17:24] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> thats not the point
01[17:24] <Auctor[1TF]> and sure that doesn't excuse what he did
[17:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> he had been to high court 2 times before for nearly the same reasons, and I for one consider such threats to be very serious
01[17:25] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
[17:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> the spin was that because it involved NPO that is carried more weight, that is simply !@#$%^&*
[17:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I had an issue that he thought that kind of behavior was ok
[17:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> now he understood this after he calmed down
01[17:26] <Auctor[1TF]> WAPA has it both ways so many times
[17:26] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> cyan and sel on other hand worked themselves up into a frenzy and didnt even bother to read the discussion thread among the leadership talking about why it was a big deal
01[17:27] <Auctor[1TF]> I like the one where Selindryl calms down
01[17:27] <Auctor[1TF]> comes back
[17:27] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> they left in a huff thinking it was all about us bowing to NPO, they were wrong, they were stupid, and they abandoned their posts in a disrespectful manner
01[17:27] <Auctor[1TF]> yall lanmd her in court
01[17:27] <Auctor[1TF]> that made me lol
[17:27] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well I was against that, honestly I dont think she should have been left back
[17:27] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> but it does illiustrate that her leaving was a misunderstood decision
[17:28] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> same as when cyan recently asked to come back and I told him to go to hell
[17:28] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> what they did I consider treason
01[17:28] <Auctor[1TF]> you know
01[17:28] <Auctor[1TF]> I see a lot of the time in WAPA why Tepes and LC ended up leaving
[17:29] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> the funny thing is those things have changed since they left. You should know those are two of the folks who convinced me to run for the firm
[17:29] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> the big problems from before was that there was no cohesion
[17:30] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yes it was a group of friends but little more than rabble
[17:30] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> then there was a time where we followed the rule of law, now they are moving back tword the rabble phase
[17:30] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> to be honest this is why I am leaving
01[17:30] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
[17:30] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> last time they did this they were nearly destroyed
01[17:31] <Auctor[1TF]> and it's certainly not a wrong decision to leave WAPA
01[17:31] <Auctor[1TF]> don't know of any of those I know that have left I thought were dead wrong to
[17:32] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well cyan and sel were as they did it for compleatly wrong and purposefully ignorant reasons
01[17:33] <Auctor[1TF]> is kind of an interesting position you're proposing to put WAPA in
[17:33] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> whats that?
01[17:33] <Auctor[1TF]> I'd imagine a lot of WAPA's FA positions now are attributable to what Mr. Failing's gone out and done
01[17:34] <Auctor[1TF]> so now you've built a whole cloud of ODP's on an illusion
[17:34] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> illusion of what?
01[17:35] <Auctor[1TF]> that WAPA had it together now, was reintegrating back into the world as it were
01[17:35] <Auctor[1TF]> was a time I thought 1TF'd have an MDP with yall, I'm not so sure anymore
[17:36] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no that was accurate, it is only recently that this swing has begun. To be honest it was the advent of the sel cyan thing
06[17:36] * Auctor[1TF] nods
[17:36] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> what made me think of leaving was when they let someone who was guilty of treason back in, and then after a court case where she admitted guilt the senate refused to punish her
01[17:37] <Auctor[1TF]> I won't have bad things said of them here, as they're in an honorable alliance and productive members of a closer ally of 1TF than even WAPA
[17:37] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> think about that for a second. She admitted she broke the charter, but yet was let off because people liked her
[17:37] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> you asked the question, Im telling you what happened
01[17:38] <Auctor[1TF]> we moved on, I was satisfied
[17:39] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> you just said it was an illusion, Im telling you the exact moment when wapa started to move away from law and prosparity and tword mob rule
01[17:39] <Auctor[1TF]> ok
01[17:39] <Auctor[1TF]> I see it now
[17:39] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> really though your statement gives me great concern
01[17:39] <Auctor[1TF]> just refrain from calling them traitors
01[17:39] <Auctor[1TF]> CD has an MDoAP with us
[17:40] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> honestly I wont because that what they are. Reguardless of if you like them or not they performed actions designed to hurt wapa, thats treason
01[17:40] <Auctor[1TF]> if it was treason
01[17:41] <Auctor[1TF]> then you're a coward for not pursuing them
01[17:41] <Auctor[1TF]> let's stop this line of reasoning here please
[17:41] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> not true, I did all I could, the AA decided to let them go, the reason I am choosing to leave. See it all links together. I fought as much as I could to get justice served
[17:42] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no worries, its in the past as far as they are concerned for me, the dealings with wapa on the other hand are ongoing
[17:42] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> because it didnt stop with them
01[17:42] <Auctor[1TF]> I'd imagine not
01[17:43] <Auctor[1TF]> this is where the senate changes Finner's sentence, right?
01[17:43] <Auctor[1TF]> WAPA has it two ways again
[17:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no there were other items in there
[17:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> before thaty
[17:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> but yes thats one of them
[17:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> finner was the first member who was kicked who asked to come back
[17:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I belived him that he was going to keep his nose clean as did the other firm
[17:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> however the charter does not allow us this power
[17:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so an amendment was proposed to allow the firm to readmit him
[17:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> it failed
[17:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> the AA said he should not be let back
01[17:45] <Auctor[1TF]> but the senate holds the power of punishment
01[17:45] <Auctor[1TF]> commuted his sentence
[17:45] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> however a loop hole was found in which the senate overturned their own decision to kick him
[17:45] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so we asked to let him back, the AA said not, but the senate did it anyway
[17:45] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> as a servant of the AA I find this horrible
[17:46] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> mind you I wanted him back, but I didnt want to do it in spite of the AA
01[17:46] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
01[17:46] <Auctor[1TF]> I know the story
01[17:46] <Auctor[1TF]> I see the dillemma as well
[17:46] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> really I wish wapa no ill will, I really dont
[17:47] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> but they are choosing to move in a direction I will not lead them to
01[17:47] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
01[17:47] <Auctor[1TF]> Tepes and LC didn't either
01[17:48] <Auctor[1TF]> 1TF had a PIAT with NAHA, and then with SDI, would've been upgraded if it weren't for them being in OPP and such
[17:48] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I really miss those folks
01[17:48] <Auctor[1TF]> aye
[17:48] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> good guys and my mentors
01[17:49] <Auctor[1TF]> sucked when they dispanded
[17:49] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yep
01[17:50] <Auctor[1TF]> tbh, only way I'd join this alliance yall're setting up is if it was an SDI reform
[17:50] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so now that you know me a bit more I get the impression you dont like me too much
01[17:50] <Auctor[1TF]> probably wouldn't even then
01[17:50] <Auctor[1TF]> eh
01[17:50] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't not like you
[17:50] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> hehe
01[17:51] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm very simple minded and play a game with friends
[17:51] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> its ok, just know I will always let you know where you stand and dont lie to people
01[17:51] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
01[17:52] <Auctor[1TF]> wouldn't expect you to do otherwise
01[17:52] <Auctor[1TF]> as
01[17:52] <Auctor[1TF]> this is the internet
01[17:52] <Auctor[1TF]> subtlety is totally lost on it
[17:52] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> hehe
[17:52] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yes but also people tend to lie alot
[17:52] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I just dont do that
01[17:52] <Auctor[1TF]> my honest appraisal is while I like you guys
[17:53] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> granted you have nothing to back that up other than my word
01[17:53] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't really like the way in which I 1) percieve you're doing some things, which you've cleared up for me in ways Mr. Failing sorta didn't, and 2) I don't want to be in a TOOL protectorate
01[17:53] <Auctor[1TF]> evar
[17:54] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I dont either
[17:54] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I dont trust them, and to me, trust is everything
01[17:54] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm quite satisfied with my own group I've built up trust wiith
01[17:55] <Auctor[1TF]> if I were to join a new alliance, it'd be within that orbit, if I were make an alliance, it'd be in that sort of area of the world lol
01[17:55] <Auctor[1TF]> already tried venturing out
01[17:56] <Auctor[1TF]> and I did not do well lol
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01[17:56] Mindwerkz{WAPA} is chatzilla@coldfront-85FF3929.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com * New Now Know How
01[17:56] Mindwerkz{WAPA} is a registered nick
01[17:56] Mindwerkz{WAPA} on ~#cnwapa
01[17:56] Mindwerkz{WAPA} using storm.coldfront.net Welcome to Coldfront!
01[17:56] Mindwerkz{WAPA} End of /WHOIS list.
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[17:56] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> whats the orbit
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> we're very connected with our old home on brown, that's alliances like the 57th, CD, OTF
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> and with our new home on blue
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> which
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> we're in with a lot of the exBLEU alliances
[17:57] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I really like 57
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> aye
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> cool people
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> we're in an MADP bloc
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> AZTEC
01[17:58] <Auctor[1TF]> GLOF, PUKE, and NV
[17:58] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> cd really burned us with not getting our side in the sel issue and really burned up currency
01[17:58] <Auctor[1TF]> all people worth rolling for and with from my perspective
[17:58] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I like you guys and SF
01[17:58] <Auctor[1TF]> CD was a merger with an alliance that held our protectorate back in the day
01[17:59] <Auctor[1TF]> always watched out for us
01[17:59] <Auctor[1TF]> didn't let us get Sharked when we very well could have
[18:00] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I dont know, there response to that incident was really bad
[18:00] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I liked them until them
[18:00] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> then
01[18:01] <Auctor[1TF]> I won't make you like my friends
[18:01] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I want to, but we need to deal with those issues first
01[18:01] <Auctor[1TF]> you don't have to
01[18:01] <Auctor[1TF]> this is the internet
01[18:02] <Auctor[1TF]> not all of WAPA's friends are 1TF's friends
01[18:02] <Auctor[1TF]> for instance
[18:02] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> sure but there is no reason to hold a grudge, just wont over look past transgressions until they are delt with
[18:02] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> oh no this has nothing to do with you
01[18:02] <Auctor[1TF]> we can't hardly stand Athens over a way they dealt with us over a rogue
[18:03] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> this has to do with we had an ODP on the table and they decided to obsorb two of our ministers without so much as a message and when questions we were more or less told to $%&@ off
01[18:03] <Auctor[1TF]> well
[18:03] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so yea, I would love to talk about it but you can see there are complications
01[18:03] <Auctor[1TF]> tbh
01[18:04] <Auctor[1TF]> we're not even as close with them as we used to be, our MADP bloc takes precedence over all our extraneous FA
01[18:04] <Auctor[1TF]> now
01[18:04] <Auctor[1TF]> we don't sign chaining treaties outside of it, for instance
01[18:05] <Auctor[1TF]> we have two treaties outside of it above ODP, MDoAP with CD, and MDoAP with Greenland Republic
[18:05] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I was shocked to be honest, like I said we had a signed ODP on the table that was just waiting to be posted and then this happened
01[18:05] <Auctor[1TF]> both don't chain
01[18:05] <Auctor[1TF]> here's what CD knows about WAPA
01[18:06] <Auctor[1TF]> 1TF likes both of you
01[18:06] <Auctor[1TF]> Selindryl and Cyan are two cool people from WAPA they know and see regularly
01[18:06] <Auctor[1TF]> Selindryl and Cyan feel jerked around, apply to CD
01[18:07] <Auctor[1TF]> CD is fiercely loyal to their members
01[18:07] <Auctor[1TF]> when they accepted them, their past didn't matter
[18:08] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> do you really want to get into that?
01[18:08] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't have a moral standing on it
01[18:09] <Auctor[1TF]> what's done is done
01[18:09] <Auctor[1TF]> my friends are all my friends still
[18:09] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> as per the odp they had a responsibility to talk to us about such an incident, the showed greater loyalty to two people who went our of their way to hurt their parent AA than to the AA itself of which they had a treaty
[18:09] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I'd say its pretty $%&@ed up all around
01[18:09] <Auctor[1TF]> you said they didn't have an ODP with yall
01[18:09] <Auctor[1TF]> look
[18:09] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> it was signed and waiting to be posted
01[18:10] <Auctor[1TF]> they just went through this with a treaty partner on an MDoAP level
[18:10] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> you mean they did the same thing with another AA?
01[18:10] <Auctor[1TF]> UPN had a bunch of theirs get $%&@ed off and leave for CD
01[18:10] <Auctor[1TF]> now
01[18:10] <Auctor[1TF]> let's say tomorrow
01[18:11] <Auctor[1TF]> I was to get fed up with 1TF
01[18:11] <Auctor[1TF]> would you want Mayz to handhold you and say it's alright for me to join WAPA?
[18:11] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> LOL ok thats very messed up. This is the mindset that if someone cheats on their wife that the next woman shouldnt belive they will be loyal. This tells me the leadership of CD isnt bright at best
01[18:11] <Auctor[1TF]> $%&@ you
01[18:11] <Auctor[1TF]> look
[18:12] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> seriously
[18:12] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> they have a habit of taking in defectors from what your telling me
01[18:12] <Auctor[1TF]> if you don't want them in WAPA
01[18:12] <Auctor[1TF]> lol
01[18:12] <Auctor[1TF]> dude man
01[18:12] <Auctor[1TF]> WAPA's done the same enough times
[18:12] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> but we do checks
[18:12] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> and we talk to the previous AA's
[18:12] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> we make sure we are making a smart move
01[18:13] <Auctor[1TF]> ya
01[18:13] <Auctor[1TF]> how many times did yall let Finner back?
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> we dont steal people in the night and then when questioned tell people to $%&@ off
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> once
01[18:13] <Auctor[1TF]> more than once
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> nope
01[18:13] <Auctor[1TF]> left for NADC
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> oh your talking about when he left
01[18:13] <Auctor[1TF]> went back to WAPA
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> he left on his own
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> and he did it the right way
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> he didnt defect
01[18:14] <Auctor[1TF]> I see
[18:14] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> he resigned and we parted ways
[18:14] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no harm no foul
01[18:14] <Auctor[1TF]> you wanted them to write you a nice letter before going about their merry wat
[18:14] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> your not stupid, your can stop the patronizing, the diffrence is clear
01[18:15] <Auctor[1TF]> I didn't resign from 1TF when I left
01[18:15] <Auctor[1TF]> just went into peace mode
[18:15] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well than I would say that was wrong
01[18:15] <Auctor[1TF]> went onto none
01[18:15] <Auctor[1TF]> and walked away for a couple days
[18:15] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> why wouldnt you tell them you were leaving
01[18:15] <Auctor[1TF]> I was very upset
[18:15] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> make sure all issues that might have lead to your leaving were delt with
01[18:16] <Auctor[1TF]> was having RL mental health issues spark up at the time
[18:16] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> its the diffrence between a calm planned and rational decision, and a rash emotional one
[18:16] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> but even then...
01[18:16] <Auctor[1TF]> was 1TF wrong to let me back?
[18:17] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> thats for them to decide, I dont know what steps were taken in that
01[18:17] <Auctor[1TF]> another thing about CD
[18:17] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I would say that if the only thing you did was simply reapply with no explination at all then yes but thats just me
01[18:18] <Auctor[1TF]> is they had a lot of inherited /b/tards
01[18:18] <Auctor[1TF]> well
01[18:18] <Auctor[1TF]> so
[18:18] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> if you told me you had a break down thats another thing
01[18:19] <Auctor[1TF]> wouldn't've been your business
01[18:19] <Auctor[1TF]> OOC
[18:19] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> now if you were in government at the time I would want some assurace that that type of thing would never happen again
[18:19] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yes it would, you want into the alliance its my buisness
[18:19] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> becasue your leaving had an effect
01[18:19] <Auctor[1TF]> 'cept yours won't iirc
01[18:19] <Auctor[1TF]>
01[18:19] <Auctor[1TF]> sorry
[18:20] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no it will have an effect
01[18:20] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm getting ready for dinner and taking snide potshots
[18:20] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> but I am going out of my way to make it a smooth transition
01[18:20] <Auctor[1TF]> that's not my intention
01[18:20] <Auctor[1TF]> quite simply
[18:20] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no its a fair critisim and one I am more than happy to address
01[18:21] <Auctor[1TF]> WAPA's business with CD isn't the province of 1TF to deal with, and you'll say I was talking about our relationship with CD, what I was trying to do was describe
[18:21] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no I understand what you were saying
01[18:22] <Auctor[1TF]> CD is one of our closest and oldest allies, we're very grateful for what they've done for us
[18:22] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> and like I said I would love to deal with the issues but from what your telling me not only would they be willing to accept that what they did was wrong which it was but that they have a history of doing it to other groups as well, this concerns me
01[18:22] <Auctor[1TF]> WAPA is one of our oldest allies
01[18:22] <Auctor[1TF]> it has its own !@#$
01[18:23] <Auctor[1TF]> which
01[18:23] <Auctor[1TF]> have gotten it into far more deep water than your perceptions about CD have ever gotten them into
[18:24] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> how is that related?
01[18:24] <Auctor[1TF]> the relation there is you're both my friends and you're not going to convince me here to be played off of either of you
[18:24] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> if your going to use that reasoning than you can only go from when I took over, which was between the shark wars. Since then we have had nothing but great prosparity and growth
[18:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> LOL your greatly misunderstanding my intentions
[18:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> your dealing with them are your own
01[18:25] <Auctor[1TF]> correct
01[18:25] <Auctor[1TF]> and I keep them that way
[18:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> you asked what happened and I told you, Im not trying to influence how you see them in any way. Though I can already tell I have told you things you didnt previously know and I think that is important
01[18:26] <Auctor[1TF]> well
01[18:27] <Auctor[1TF]> let's go down the list of our mutual allies if we're doing this
01[18:27] <Auctor[1TF]> sup with GR and SF?
01[18:27] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't understand your purpose here
[18:28] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> Im not sure what your talking about
01[18:28] <Auctor[1TF]> what really motivates me about 1TF's diplomatic position right now
01[18:29] <Auctor[1TF]> is our membership in AZTEC
[18:29] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> your talking about the war again right?
01[18:30] <Auctor[1TF]> yeah
01[18:30] <Auctor[1TF]> we'll be in this next one
[18:30] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yep I have read that
01[18:30] <Auctor[1TF]> and not on NPO's side from the looks of it
[18:30] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so your looking to see if we would stand with you
01[18:30] <Auctor[1TF]> no
01[18:31] <Auctor[1TF]> we signed an ODP with you
01[18:31] <Auctor[1TF]> we understand fully what level of commitment that was
01[18:31] <Auctor[1TF]> if yall like it you can bandwagon in
01[18:31] <Auctor[1TF]> if you don't and have one on the other side you like
01[18:31] <Auctor[1TF]> you can do that
[18:32] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so what are you asking here?
01[18:32] <Auctor[1TF]> or yall're prolly primed to sit it out
01[18:32] <Auctor[1TF]> it's informing
01[18:33] <Auctor[1TF]> it's an interesting set up this war
01[18:34] <Auctor[1TF]> they're talkig SuperFriends and Citadel v. 1V and the remants of a shattered Continuum
01[18:35] <Auctor[1TF]> should be nukes nukes nukes
01[18:36] <Auctor[1TF]> even if yall're sitting it out, I'd recommed war chests b/c the GRL will get ugly
[18:36] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well I know the firm is looking to get involved but we need to see the CB's first
01[18:36] <Auctor[1TF]> you'll have allies on both sides
01[18:37] <Auctor[1TF]> garunteed
[18:37] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yep
01[18:37] <Auctor[1TF]> kinda crummy knowing I'll be on the other side of Tepes and LC
01[18:37] <Auctor[1TF]> but
01[18:37] <Auctor[1TF]> it's a game
01[18:37] <Auctor[1TF]> and it's a war
01[18:37] <Auctor[1TF]> and I wanna play >_>
01[18:41] <Auctor[1TF]> hopefully, the CB's are something like
01[18:41] <Auctor[1TF]> this is a game
01[18:41] <Auctor[1TF]> and we're all here to play
[18:41] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> LOL
01[18:42] <Auctor[1TF]> remember
01[18:42] <Auctor[1TF]> last war, the DoW on AZTEC was
01[18:42] <Auctor[1TF]> "Declaration of we don't like you and want you to die"
01[18:43] <Auctor[Dinner]> catch you around, mate, stay in touch
01[18:43] <Auctor[Dinner]> nice meeting you
[18:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> you too
[18:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I hope I have left a good impression
Session Close: Wed Apr 01 19:12:02 2009
[16:41] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so VF tells me hes talked to you about dune, being as this is the first time I have talked to you about it, what are your thoughts?
01[16:42] <Auctor[1TF]> my thoughts are 1) it's f%^* up to plan anything while a member of gov't of an alliance
01[16:42] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm sure you're plotting that course with a lot of consideration and carefulness
01[16:42] <Auctor[1TF]> but I'd be bothered if I put myself in the ethical position yall've put yourselves in
[16:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> this is the reason it is being kept secret, and why we wont be leaving until our terms are up
01[16:43] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
01[16:43] <Auctor[1TF]> you shouldn't have to keep it secret
01[16:43] <Auctor[1TF]> and I understand the impulse you're working with
[16:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> why do you think that? I think much more damage would be made if people knew I was looking to leave
01[16:43] <Auctor[1TF]> I wouldn't be able to walk the line yall are
01[16:44] <Auctor[1TF]> now
01[16:44] <Auctor[1TF]> if I was going to do what yall were doing
[16:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> there is alot of trust in those who are leaving, I think that would be greatly damaged if I were to tell them
01[16:44] <Auctor[1TF]> I wouldn't have set up forums until my term was over
[16:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well we want to be ready to go, and its not as if our duties are suffering
01[16:45] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't know how far you have progressed, but if you're negotiating a protectorate while still in gov't I wouldn't be pleased if I found out about it and I was one of those who didn't leave
[16:45] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no were not
[16:46] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> just an idea of who we are going to talk to
01[16:46] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm very poor with gray areas
01[16:46] <Auctor[1TF]> so
01[16:46] <Auctor[1TF]> this looks like a two masters dillemma to me
01[16:47] <Auctor[1TF]> and I understand why you'd say it's not
01[16:47] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm uncomfortable with it is my answer to what do I think
[16:47] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so would this still be the case after we have left office and moved on?
01[16:48] <Auctor[1TF]> well
01[16:48] <Auctor[1TF]> 1TF is getting ready for a war
[16:48] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I see that
01[16:48] <Auctor[1TF]> I can't desert under those conditions
[16:48] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> hehe, wouldnt expect you to
01[16:49] <Auctor[1TF]> and being honest, the way I percieve yall to have acted, and maybe wrongly, and the plan itself are not things that appeal to me
[16:50] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I think you are under the impression we have done more than we have
01[16:50] <Auctor[1TF]> I was actively poached by Mr. Failing right after having gotten back into 1TF ,gov
[16:50] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> poached?
[16:50] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> he just told me he talked to you about it
01[16:51] <Auctor[1TF]> he was trying to recruit me into it and to feel me out to go onto the boards
01[16:51] <Auctor[1TF]> and
[16:51] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> hmm, thats not the impression I was given
[16:51] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well thats a bit unfortunate
06[16:51] * Auctor[1TF] nods
[16:52] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> see I dont know you at all so I am going purely off what others have told me
[16:52] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> in fact I do belive this is the first time I have talked to you
01[16:52] <Auctor[1TF]> talked a bit back when I got the wild idea to move us all to brown
[16:53] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> ahh ok, that was a while ago yea
01[16:54] <Auctor[1TF]> I know Mr. Failing has a tendency to let his enthusiasm overwelm what looks like good judgement
[16:54] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I know finner likes ya but honestly while hes a good chap I heavily question his ideas when it comes to leadership so thats kind of a wash
01[16:54] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
[16:55] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no at this point we have a forum but that is little more than a place for the 3 involved to talk being as we live very far from each other
01[16:55] <Auctor[1TF]> what concerned me is he was asking me to come to these forums, and set up guides and programs and such for an eventual alliance
[16:55] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I know he has ideas of who he would want as a protectorate, Im not sure I agree with his ideas on that
01[16:56] <Auctor[1TF]> lol
01[16:56] <Auctor[1TF]> I know who he said to me
01[16:56] <Auctor[1TF]> and frankly that doesn't appeal to me either
01[16:56] <Auctor[1TF]> I've spent too long out of my own sort of diplomatic circle before coming back to 1TF
[16:57] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> are you sure he wasnt talkin about after launch? I ask because your guides if you set them up would be the only ones there
[16:57] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> its really nothing more than a chat group for those involved in the prelim planning
01[16:58] <Auctor[1TF]> I might have misinterpretted it
[16:58] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> either way I will ask him his intent
01[16:58] <Auctor[1TF]> all preliminary planning done secretly while members of an alliance gov't you want kept from the alliance also sets off warning bells
01[17:00] <Auctor[1TF]> did you pay much attention to what they did with the TSO/MCXA thing?
[17:00] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> your concerns are the exact reason for it being kept private. Your assuming that wapa is suffering by this which is not the case but an inference which is easily made. We wanted to avoid any such assumptions
01[17:00] <Auctor[1TF]> right
[17:00] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no idea really, not at all familiar with it
01[17:01] <Auctor[1TF]> it's not really about doing harm to WAPA
[17:01] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> its about not doing our job in wapa, which I would consider detrimental to wapa were it the case
01[17:02] <Auctor[1TF]> if someone asked me this with names attached I didn't like at all
01[17:02] <Auctor[1TF]> then I would probably have unpleasant names for it
01[17:02] <Auctor[1TF]>
[17:03] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> and that has alot to do with if you trust the compitance of those involved
01[17:03] <Auctor[1TF]> My opinion of Mr. Failing isn't as favorable as it once was
[17:03] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> as I said I dont know you, but you come highly recommended
01[17:04] <Auctor[1TF]> which I'll state honestly
[17:04] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> thats fair, I would rather have someone tell me something I didnt like honestly, than something I did like dishonestly
01[17:04] <Auctor[1TF]> he's tended to our alliance head mad at him with his pushes for a merge
[17:05] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well that has more to do with a lack of an answer than anything else
01[17:05] <Auctor[1TF]> he's a very socialable guy
01[17:06] <Auctor[1TF]> but I'd say his view of the politics of CN I've found to be uneducated >_>
01[17:07] <Auctor[1TF]> I've had to to make excuses for him with Mayz
[17:07] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> oh?
01[17:07] <Auctor[1TF]> which I don't like to do lol
01[17:08] <Auctor[1TF]> part of that
01[17:08] <Auctor[1TF]> is we don't know where we stand with WAPA very well anymore
[17:08] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I have talked mayzie, I like him a good deal
01[17:10] <Auctor[1TF]> this isn't so much helping firm up my knowledge of it
01[17:10] <Auctor[1TF]> 1TF's sort of grown up in the past couple months
[17:10] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> your really highlighting why we have been selective in talking to people about the new AA. Your getting the impression that we are not still working tword the best interest of wapa
01[17:10] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
01[17:10] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't know a thing about what you're doing about anything
01[17:10] <Auctor[1TF]> it's all what yall come to me with
01[17:11] <Auctor[1TF]> we just joined an MADP bloc
01[17:11] <Auctor[1TF]> picked up another nonchaining MDoAP
[17:11] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> the real question is if you belive someone have have a conversation on one hand that does not effect what happens on the other hand
01[17:13] <Auctor[1TF]> mind if I steer this away from the future and your plan and just talk about 1TF's relations with WAPA for a bit?
[17:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> sure, are you looking at a treaty discussion?
[17:14] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> or are you looking tword war?
01[17:14] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm actually more focused on we've fallen out of touch with yall
01[17:14] <Auctor[1TF]> not intentionally I'm sure
01[17:14] <Auctor[1TF]> but we rarely see WAPA .gov on IRC anymore
01[17:15] <Auctor[1TF]> hassman's busy with RL I know
[17:15] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yep, hes not government anymore either
01[17:15] <Auctor[1TF]> didn't even know that
[17:15] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> the firm is now me, prince buster, and broon
[17:15] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> broon is very busy in real life and I doubt he will run again, he tried not to run this time but I talked him into it
01[17:16] <Auctor[1TF]> I was surprised to hear Darkova was MoF and Joneleth was AWOL
[17:16] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I am too, do you know what happened to him at all?
01[17:16] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't
[17:16] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I have sent him emails and gotten no response
01[17:16] <Auctor[1TF]> know he worked late nights
01[17:17] <Auctor[1TF]> kinda has me curious
[17:17] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> me and him were friends but only over CN so other than his contact email I have no way to get ahold of him
[17:17] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> Im worried he may have died
01[17:17] <Auctor[1TF]> me too
01[17:17] <Auctor[1TF]> always struck me as a bizarre character
[17:17] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I really liked him and talked to him alot
01[17:18] <Auctor[1TF]> I remember one night I was just goofing off on #cnwapa, and ended up in a query with him that went on far too long about the lamest stuff lol
01[17:19] <Auctor[1TF]> hope he's alright
[17:19] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> hehe, yep hes a good chap
01[17:20] <Auctor[1TF]> Selindryl and Cyan leaving kinda cut down on yall's IRC actives
01[17:20] <Auctor[1TF]> good to see SaintKev back spamming out forums tho
[17:21] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yea that was pretty $%&@ed up. All in all Im glad they left as they clearly wernt loyal to wapa but that is an opinion I know is not shared by many.
01[17:21] <Auctor[1TF]> way I saw it
01[17:22] <Auctor[1TF]> they were justified in not being loyal anymore
[17:22] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well than you were misinformed
[17:22] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> Im not suprised, the hype about what happened was not the reality
01[17:22] <Auctor[1TF]> hey
01[17:22] <Auctor[1TF]> I got into the same position as Finner once
01[17:23] <Auctor[1TF]> 1TF didn't dump me, our allies came in and handled it
[17:23] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> you told someone to kill themself?
01[17:23] <Auctor[1TF]> I got brow beaten into someone was able to twist me into saying I threatened their life OOC
01[17:24] <Auctor[1TF]> you know how easy Finner is to provoke
[17:24] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> thats not the point
01[17:24] <Auctor[1TF]> and sure that doesn't excuse what he did
[17:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> he had been to high court 2 times before for nearly the same reasons, and I for one consider such threats to be very serious
01[17:25] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
[17:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> the spin was that because it involved NPO that is carried more weight, that is simply !@#$%^&*
[17:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I had an issue that he thought that kind of behavior was ok
[17:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> now he understood this after he calmed down
01[17:26] <Auctor[1TF]> WAPA has it both ways so many times
[17:26] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> cyan and sel on other hand worked themselves up into a frenzy and didnt even bother to read the discussion thread among the leadership talking about why it was a big deal
01[17:27] <Auctor[1TF]> I like the one where Selindryl calms down
01[17:27] <Auctor[1TF]> comes back
[17:27] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> they left in a huff thinking it was all about us bowing to NPO, they were wrong, they were stupid, and they abandoned their posts in a disrespectful manner
01[17:27] <Auctor[1TF]> yall lanmd her in court
01[17:27] <Auctor[1TF]> that made me lol
[17:27] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well I was against that, honestly I dont think she should have been left back
[17:27] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> but it does illiustrate that her leaving was a misunderstood decision
[17:28] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> same as when cyan recently asked to come back and I told him to go to hell
[17:28] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> what they did I consider treason
01[17:28] <Auctor[1TF]> you know
01[17:28] <Auctor[1TF]> I see a lot of the time in WAPA why Tepes and LC ended up leaving
[17:29] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> the funny thing is those things have changed since they left. You should know those are two of the folks who convinced me to run for the firm
[17:29] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> the big problems from before was that there was no cohesion
[17:30] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yes it was a group of friends but little more than rabble
[17:30] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> then there was a time where we followed the rule of law, now they are moving back tword the rabble phase
[17:30] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> to be honest this is why I am leaving
01[17:30] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
[17:30] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> last time they did this they were nearly destroyed
01[17:31] <Auctor[1TF]> and it's certainly not a wrong decision to leave WAPA
01[17:31] <Auctor[1TF]> don't know of any of those I know that have left I thought were dead wrong to
[17:32] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well cyan and sel were as they did it for compleatly wrong and purposefully ignorant reasons
01[17:33] <Auctor[1TF]> is kind of an interesting position you're proposing to put WAPA in
[17:33] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> whats that?
01[17:33] <Auctor[1TF]> I'd imagine a lot of WAPA's FA positions now are attributable to what Mr. Failing's gone out and done
01[17:34] <Auctor[1TF]> so now you've built a whole cloud of ODP's on an illusion
[17:34] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> illusion of what?
01[17:35] <Auctor[1TF]> that WAPA had it together now, was reintegrating back into the world as it were
01[17:35] <Auctor[1TF]> was a time I thought 1TF'd have an MDP with yall, I'm not so sure anymore
[17:36] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no that was accurate, it is only recently that this swing has begun. To be honest it was the advent of the sel cyan thing
06[17:36] * Auctor[1TF] nods
[17:36] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> what made me think of leaving was when they let someone who was guilty of treason back in, and then after a court case where she admitted guilt the senate refused to punish her
01[17:37] <Auctor[1TF]> I won't have bad things said of them here, as they're in an honorable alliance and productive members of a closer ally of 1TF than even WAPA
[17:37] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> think about that for a second. She admitted she broke the charter, but yet was let off because people liked her
[17:37] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> you asked the question, Im telling you what happened
01[17:38] <Auctor[1TF]> we moved on, I was satisfied
[17:39] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> you just said it was an illusion, Im telling you the exact moment when wapa started to move away from law and prosparity and tword mob rule
01[17:39] <Auctor[1TF]> ok
01[17:39] <Auctor[1TF]> I see it now
[17:39] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> really though your statement gives me great concern
01[17:39] <Auctor[1TF]> just refrain from calling them traitors
01[17:39] <Auctor[1TF]> CD has an MDoAP with us
[17:40] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> honestly I wont because that what they are. Reguardless of if you like them or not they performed actions designed to hurt wapa, thats treason
01[17:40] <Auctor[1TF]> if it was treason
01[17:41] <Auctor[1TF]> then you're a coward for not pursuing them
01[17:41] <Auctor[1TF]> let's stop this line of reasoning here please
[17:41] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> not true, I did all I could, the AA decided to let them go, the reason I am choosing to leave. See it all links together. I fought as much as I could to get justice served
[17:42] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no worries, its in the past as far as they are concerned for me, the dealings with wapa on the other hand are ongoing
[17:42] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> because it didnt stop with them
01[17:42] <Auctor[1TF]> I'd imagine not
01[17:43] <Auctor[1TF]> this is where the senate changes Finner's sentence, right?
01[17:43] <Auctor[1TF]> WAPA has it two ways again
[17:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no there were other items in there
[17:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> before thaty
[17:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> but yes thats one of them
[17:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> finner was the first member who was kicked who asked to come back
[17:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I belived him that he was going to keep his nose clean as did the other firm
[17:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> however the charter does not allow us this power
[17:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so an amendment was proposed to allow the firm to readmit him
[17:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> it failed
[17:44] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> the AA said he should not be let back
01[17:45] <Auctor[1TF]> but the senate holds the power of punishment
01[17:45] <Auctor[1TF]> commuted his sentence
[17:45] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> however a loop hole was found in which the senate overturned their own decision to kick him
[17:45] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so we asked to let him back, the AA said not, but the senate did it anyway
[17:45] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> as a servant of the AA I find this horrible
[17:46] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> mind you I wanted him back, but I didnt want to do it in spite of the AA
01[17:46] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
01[17:46] <Auctor[1TF]> I know the story
01[17:46] <Auctor[1TF]> I see the dillemma as well
[17:46] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> really I wish wapa no ill will, I really dont
[17:47] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> but they are choosing to move in a direction I will not lead them to
01[17:47] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
01[17:47] <Auctor[1TF]> Tepes and LC didn't either
01[17:48] <Auctor[1TF]> 1TF had a PIAT with NAHA, and then with SDI, would've been upgraded if it weren't for them being in OPP and such
[17:48] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I really miss those folks
01[17:48] <Auctor[1TF]> aye
[17:48] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> good guys and my mentors
01[17:49] <Auctor[1TF]> sucked when they dispanded
[17:49] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yep
01[17:50] <Auctor[1TF]> tbh, only way I'd join this alliance yall're setting up is if it was an SDI reform
[17:50] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so now that you know me a bit more I get the impression you dont like me too much
01[17:50] <Auctor[1TF]> probably wouldn't even then
01[17:50] <Auctor[1TF]> eh
01[17:50] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't not like you
[17:50] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> hehe
01[17:51] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm very simple minded and play a game with friends
[17:51] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> its ok, just know I will always let you know where you stand and dont lie to people
01[17:51] <Auctor[1TF]> sure
01[17:52] <Auctor[1TF]> wouldn't expect you to do otherwise
01[17:52] <Auctor[1TF]> as
01[17:52] <Auctor[1TF]> this is the internet
01[17:52] <Auctor[1TF]> subtlety is totally lost on it
[17:52] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> hehe
[17:52] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yes but also people tend to lie alot
[17:52] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I just dont do that
01[17:52] <Auctor[1TF]> my honest appraisal is while I like you guys
[17:53] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> granted you have nothing to back that up other than my word
01[17:53] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't really like the way in which I 1) percieve you're doing some things, which you've cleared up for me in ways Mr. Failing sorta didn't, and 2) I don't want to be in a TOOL protectorate
01[17:53] <Auctor[1TF]> evar
[17:54] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I dont either
[17:54] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I dont trust them, and to me, trust is everything
01[17:54] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm quite satisfied with my own group I've built up trust wiith
01[17:55] <Auctor[1TF]> if I were to join a new alliance, it'd be within that orbit, if I were make an alliance, it'd be in that sort of area of the world lol
01[17:55] <Auctor[1TF]> already tried venturing out
01[17:56] <Auctor[1TF]> and I did not do well lol
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01[17:56] Mindwerkz{WAPA} is chatzilla@coldfront-85FF3929.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com * New Now Know How
01[17:56] Mindwerkz{WAPA} is a registered nick
01[17:56] Mindwerkz{WAPA} on ~#cnwapa
01[17:56] Mindwerkz{WAPA} using storm.coldfront.net Welcome to Coldfront!
01[17:56] Mindwerkz{WAPA} End of /WHOIS list.
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[17:56] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> whats the orbit
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> we're very connected with our old home on brown, that's alliances like the 57th, CD, OTF
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> and with our new home on blue
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> which
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> we're in with a lot of the exBLEU alliances
[17:57] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I really like 57
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> aye
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> cool people
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> we're in an MADP bloc
01[17:57] <Auctor[1TF]> AZTEC
01[17:58] <Auctor[1TF]> GLOF, PUKE, and NV
[17:58] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> cd really burned us with not getting our side in the sel issue and really burned up currency
01[17:58] <Auctor[1TF]> all people worth rolling for and with from my perspective
[17:58] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I like you guys and SF
01[17:58] <Auctor[1TF]> CD was a merger with an alliance that held our protectorate back in the day
01[17:59] <Auctor[1TF]> always watched out for us
01[17:59] <Auctor[1TF]> didn't let us get Sharked when we very well could have
[18:00] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I dont know, there response to that incident was really bad
[18:00] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I liked them until them
[18:00] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> then
01[18:01] <Auctor[1TF]> I won't make you like my friends
[18:01] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I want to, but we need to deal with those issues first
01[18:01] <Auctor[1TF]> you don't have to
01[18:01] <Auctor[1TF]> this is the internet
01[18:02] <Auctor[1TF]> not all of WAPA's friends are 1TF's friends
01[18:02] <Auctor[1TF]> for instance
[18:02] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> sure but there is no reason to hold a grudge, just wont over look past transgressions until they are delt with
[18:02] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> oh no this has nothing to do with you
01[18:02] <Auctor[1TF]> we can't hardly stand Athens over a way they dealt with us over a rogue
[18:03] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> this has to do with we had an ODP on the table and they decided to obsorb two of our ministers without so much as a message and when questions we were more or less told to $%&@ off
01[18:03] <Auctor[1TF]> well
[18:03] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so yea, I would love to talk about it but you can see there are complications
01[18:03] <Auctor[1TF]> tbh
01[18:04] <Auctor[1TF]> we're not even as close with them as we used to be, our MADP bloc takes precedence over all our extraneous FA
01[18:04] <Auctor[1TF]> now
01[18:04] <Auctor[1TF]> we don't sign chaining treaties outside of it, for instance
01[18:05] <Auctor[1TF]> we have two treaties outside of it above ODP, MDoAP with CD, and MDoAP with Greenland Republic
[18:05] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I was shocked to be honest, like I said we had a signed ODP on the table that was just waiting to be posted and then this happened
01[18:05] <Auctor[1TF]> both don't chain
01[18:05] <Auctor[1TF]> here's what CD knows about WAPA
01[18:06] <Auctor[1TF]> 1TF likes both of you
01[18:06] <Auctor[1TF]> Selindryl and Cyan are two cool people from WAPA they know and see regularly
01[18:06] <Auctor[1TF]> Selindryl and Cyan feel jerked around, apply to CD
01[18:07] <Auctor[1TF]> CD is fiercely loyal to their members
01[18:07] <Auctor[1TF]> when they accepted them, their past didn't matter
[18:08] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> do you really want to get into that?
01[18:08] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't have a moral standing on it
01[18:09] <Auctor[1TF]> what's done is done
01[18:09] <Auctor[1TF]> my friends are all my friends still
[18:09] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> as per the odp they had a responsibility to talk to us about such an incident, the showed greater loyalty to two people who went our of their way to hurt their parent AA than to the AA itself of which they had a treaty
[18:09] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I'd say its pretty $%&@ed up all around
01[18:09] <Auctor[1TF]> you said they didn't have an ODP with yall
01[18:09] <Auctor[1TF]> look
[18:09] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> it was signed and waiting to be posted
01[18:10] <Auctor[1TF]> they just went through this with a treaty partner on an MDoAP level
[18:10] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> you mean they did the same thing with another AA?
01[18:10] <Auctor[1TF]> UPN had a bunch of theirs get $%&@ed off and leave for CD
01[18:10] <Auctor[1TF]> now
01[18:10] <Auctor[1TF]> let's say tomorrow
01[18:11] <Auctor[1TF]> I was to get fed up with 1TF
01[18:11] <Auctor[1TF]> would you want Mayz to handhold you and say it's alright for me to join WAPA?
[18:11] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> LOL ok thats very messed up. This is the mindset that if someone cheats on their wife that the next woman shouldnt belive they will be loyal. This tells me the leadership of CD isnt bright at best
01[18:11] <Auctor[1TF]> $%&@ you
01[18:11] <Auctor[1TF]> look
[18:12] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> seriously
[18:12] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> they have a habit of taking in defectors from what your telling me
01[18:12] <Auctor[1TF]> if you don't want them in WAPA
01[18:12] <Auctor[1TF]> lol
01[18:12] <Auctor[1TF]> dude man
01[18:12] <Auctor[1TF]> WAPA's done the same enough times
[18:12] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> but we do checks
[18:12] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> and we talk to the previous AA's
[18:12] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> we make sure we are making a smart move
01[18:13] <Auctor[1TF]> ya
01[18:13] <Auctor[1TF]> how many times did yall let Finner back?
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> we dont steal people in the night and then when questioned tell people to $%&@ off
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> once
01[18:13] <Auctor[1TF]> more than once
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> nope
01[18:13] <Auctor[1TF]> left for NADC
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> oh your talking about when he left
01[18:13] <Auctor[1TF]> went back to WAPA
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> he left on his own
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> and he did it the right way
[18:13] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> he didnt defect
01[18:14] <Auctor[1TF]> I see
[18:14] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> he resigned and we parted ways
[18:14] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no harm no foul
01[18:14] <Auctor[1TF]> you wanted them to write you a nice letter before going about their merry wat
[18:14] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> your not stupid, your can stop the patronizing, the diffrence is clear
01[18:15] <Auctor[1TF]> I didn't resign from 1TF when I left
01[18:15] <Auctor[1TF]> just went into peace mode
[18:15] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well than I would say that was wrong
01[18:15] <Auctor[1TF]> went onto none
01[18:15] <Auctor[1TF]> and walked away for a couple days
[18:15] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> why wouldnt you tell them you were leaving
01[18:15] <Auctor[1TF]> I was very upset
[18:15] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> make sure all issues that might have lead to your leaving were delt with
01[18:16] <Auctor[1TF]> was having RL mental health issues spark up at the time
[18:16] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> its the diffrence between a calm planned and rational decision, and a rash emotional one
[18:16] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> but even then...
01[18:16] <Auctor[1TF]> was 1TF wrong to let me back?
[18:17] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> thats for them to decide, I dont know what steps were taken in that
01[18:17] <Auctor[1TF]> another thing about CD
[18:17] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I would say that if the only thing you did was simply reapply with no explination at all then yes but thats just me
01[18:18] <Auctor[1TF]> is they had a lot of inherited /b/tards
01[18:18] <Auctor[1TF]> well
01[18:18] <Auctor[1TF]> so
[18:18] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> if you told me you had a break down thats another thing
01[18:19] <Auctor[1TF]> wouldn't've been your business
01[18:19] <Auctor[1TF]> OOC
[18:19] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> now if you were in government at the time I would want some assurace that that type of thing would never happen again
[18:19] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yes it would, you want into the alliance its my buisness
[18:19] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> becasue your leaving had an effect
01[18:19] <Auctor[1TF]> 'cept yours won't iirc
01[18:19] <Auctor[1TF]>
01[18:19] <Auctor[1TF]> sorry
[18:20] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no it will have an effect
01[18:20] <Auctor[1TF]> I'm getting ready for dinner and taking snide potshots
[18:20] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> but I am going out of my way to make it a smooth transition
01[18:20] <Auctor[1TF]> that's not my intention
01[18:20] <Auctor[1TF]> quite simply
[18:20] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no its a fair critisim and one I am more than happy to address
01[18:21] <Auctor[1TF]> WAPA's business with CD isn't the province of 1TF to deal with, and you'll say I was talking about our relationship with CD, what I was trying to do was describe
[18:21] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> no I understand what you were saying
01[18:22] <Auctor[1TF]> CD is one of our closest and oldest allies, we're very grateful for what they've done for us
[18:22] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> and like I said I would love to deal with the issues but from what your telling me not only would they be willing to accept that what they did was wrong which it was but that they have a history of doing it to other groups as well, this concerns me
01[18:22] <Auctor[1TF]> WAPA is one of our oldest allies
01[18:22] <Auctor[1TF]> it has its own !@#$
01[18:23] <Auctor[1TF]> which
01[18:23] <Auctor[1TF]> have gotten it into far more deep water than your perceptions about CD have ever gotten them into
[18:24] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> how is that related?
01[18:24] <Auctor[1TF]> the relation there is you're both my friends and you're not going to convince me here to be played off of either of you
[18:24] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> if your going to use that reasoning than you can only go from when I took over, which was between the shark wars. Since then we have had nothing but great prosparity and growth
[18:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> LOL your greatly misunderstanding my intentions
[18:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> your dealing with them are your own
01[18:25] <Auctor[1TF]> correct
01[18:25] <Auctor[1TF]> and I keep them that way
[18:25] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> you asked what happened and I told you, Im not trying to influence how you see them in any way. Though I can already tell I have told you things you didnt previously know and I think that is important
01[18:26] <Auctor[1TF]> well
01[18:27] <Auctor[1TF]> let's go down the list of our mutual allies if we're doing this
01[18:27] <Auctor[1TF]> sup with GR and SF?
01[18:27] <Auctor[1TF]> I don't understand your purpose here
[18:28] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> Im not sure what your talking about
01[18:28] <Auctor[1TF]> what really motivates me about 1TF's diplomatic position right now
01[18:29] <Auctor[1TF]> is our membership in AZTEC
[18:29] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> your talking about the war again right?
01[18:30] <Auctor[1TF]> yeah
01[18:30] <Auctor[1TF]> we'll be in this next one
[18:30] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yep I have read that
01[18:30] <Auctor[1TF]> and not on NPO's side from the looks of it
[18:30] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so your looking to see if we would stand with you
01[18:30] <Auctor[1TF]> no
01[18:31] <Auctor[1TF]> we signed an ODP with you
01[18:31] <Auctor[1TF]> we understand fully what level of commitment that was
01[18:31] <Auctor[1TF]> if yall like it you can bandwagon in
01[18:31] <Auctor[1TF]> if you don't and have one on the other side you like
01[18:31] <Auctor[1TF]> you can do that
[18:32] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> so what are you asking here?
01[18:32] <Auctor[1TF]> or yall're prolly primed to sit it out
01[18:32] <Auctor[1TF]> it's informing
01[18:33] <Auctor[1TF]> it's an interesting set up this war
01[18:34] <Auctor[1TF]> they're talkig SuperFriends and Citadel v. 1V and the remants of a shattered Continuum
01[18:35] <Auctor[1TF]> should be nukes nukes nukes
01[18:36] <Auctor[1TF]> even if yall're sitting it out, I'd recommed war chests b/c the GRL will get ugly
[18:36] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> well I know the firm is looking to get involved but we need to see the CB's first
01[18:36] <Auctor[1TF]> you'll have allies on both sides
01[18:37] <Auctor[1TF]> garunteed
[18:37] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> yep
01[18:37] <Auctor[1TF]> kinda crummy knowing I'll be on the other side of Tepes and LC
01[18:37] <Auctor[1TF]> but
01[18:37] <Auctor[1TF]> it's a game
01[18:37] <Auctor[1TF]> and it's a war
01[18:37] <Auctor[1TF]> and I wanna play >_>
01[18:41] <Auctor[1TF]> hopefully, the CB's are something like
01[18:41] <Auctor[1TF]> this is a game
01[18:41] <Auctor[1TF]> and we're all here to play
[18:41] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> LOL
01[18:42] <Auctor[1TF]> remember
01[18:42] <Auctor[1TF]> last war, the DoW on AZTEC was
01[18:42] <Auctor[1TF]> "Declaration of we don't like you and want you to die"
01[18:43] <Auctor[Dinner]> catch you around, mate, stay in touch
01[18:43] <Auctor[Dinner]> nice meeting you
[18:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> you too
[18:43] <Mindwerkz{WAPA}> I hope I have left a good impression
Session Close: Wed Apr 01 19:12:02 2009
I hope those logs were clear as to what Mindwerkz and Vanadrin Failing have planned and carried out.
Now onto Shortstar, this was his last statement before he ran to House Atreides with his tail between his legs. As you can see he insulted not only the Government but also the membership of WAPA. Indeed he went so far as to PM this to everyone in the alliance in an attempt to stage a coup. He is also a founding member and he created the forums that House Atreides use.
Quote
“There comes a time when each man must chose his fate and stand where he thinks is right. Time after time my loyalty has been questioned from multiple players, and time after time I have backed down from the onslaught of accusations of my peers. I think you should consider all the facts before making a decision, and I have seen and read and talked about things that have been made taboo by our ruling class. Proof that a letter was sent from 1tf asking that the charges on mindwerkz be dropped, because their leader and their alliance did not consider it poaching. This letter was sent to broon, and he withheld this evidence from the general membership, to try and make his accusations hold more weight. I have also reviewed the COMPLETE logs that were withheld in the high court threads from the general membership view, and compared them to the ones presented in the high court. The high court logs are edited to remove both the pretext and post text of Auctor's conversation with both of them(Mindwerkz&VF). And, that is correct, Auctor is the one who loged the members, so in the future you may want to be careful talking to that fellow. Now on to bolder and brighter things.
I feel that it should also be noted that Mindwerkz had tendered his resignation before being brought to high court, as well as VF. Broon declined this as he felt it would look bad upon him, so he initiated the high court for the 2 members. Broons actions are clear cut. Likewise, broons comments about mogar being a prick will be sent to the proper parties, as well as anything else I have gleaned that shows the true nature of the fellows leading WAPA down this dark path.
WAPA, you have been lied to. The rights granted to every nation in the charter stand for nothing. The leadership is doing what they want when they want. They ignore you, lie to you and will deface this Im sure of. It must be all lies then, but try asking maize of 1tf whether he sent the letter to our leaders. Sit down and read the charter and consider what it says. Ask yourselves why your not allowed to see the high court threads. The high court has become a farce in the worst sense of the word, where a select few, bound by no law or guidance, punish the accused at their whim. Im not asking you to take everything I say as truth, Im asking you to consider it and then to go and find your own answers. One day you yourself may fall on the wrong side, and face the mockery of the court.
There are those of you that consider yourself loyal to the alliance, but you should step back and look at what this alliance stands for, and where your leadership is leading you. Each member has the right to question what is going on, and what to do with themselves when they leave. I for one will not stand in fear of tyrants, nor anything that their corrupt power can bring about. Tyrants come and go, but the idea of a free nation lives in each mans heart. I have all the logs, screenshots and to back my accusations up, but I would rather you find this information out on your own, that way when you read it yourself, no one can say I tainted it with my actions.
Needless to say, I will be applying to House Atreides. WOW, thats a news flash, lol. You can consider my resignation tendered to all of wapa, but I leave you with a warning. If your leadership continues their oppressive rule, and seeks to involve the entire alliance in their corrupt activities, I doubt the world of Bob will be as easy to convince your doing the right thing, because those people will seek the answers, and if corruption is found they will burn it bright. I beg the innocents in this matter to seriously consider their course of actions.
Finally, I am going to return to war mode on the 6th. Any war debt will be repaid. This whole problem could have bee averted if you would have just let us walk away, Broon. I dont know if it was selfish pride that made you do it like you did, or you just have a hard on for acting like a bully. But you sir, may kiss my rebel $@!.”
I feel that it should also be noted that Mindwerkz had tendered his resignation before being brought to high court, as well as VF. Broon declined this as he felt it would look bad upon him, so he initiated the high court for the 2 members. Broons actions are clear cut. Likewise, broons comments about mogar being a prick will be sent to the proper parties, as well as anything else I have gleaned that shows the true nature of the fellows leading WAPA down this dark path.
WAPA, you have been lied to. The rights granted to every nation in the charter stand for nothing. The leadership is doing what they want when they want. They ignore you, lie to you and will deface this Im sure of. It must be all lies then, but try asking maize of 1tf whether he sent the letter to our leaders. Sit down and read the charter and consider what it says. Ask yourselves why your not allowed to see the high court threads. The high court has become a farce in the worst sense of the word, where a select few, bound by no law or guidance, punish the accused at their whim. Im not asking you to take everything I say as truth, Im asking you to consider it and then to go and find your own answers. One day you yourself may fall on the wrong side, and face the mockery of the court.
There are those of you that consider yourself loyal to the alliance, but you should step back and look at what this alliance stands for, and where your leadership is leading you. Each member has the right to question what is going on, and what to do with themselves when they leave. I for one will not stand in fear of tyrants, nor anything that their corrupt power can bring about. Tyrants come and go, but the idea of a free nation lives in each mans heart. I have all the logs, screenshots and to back my accusations up, but I would rather you find this information out on your own, that way when you read it yourself, no one can say I tainted it with my actions.
Needless to say, I will be applying to House Atreides. WOW, thats a news flash, lol. You can consider my resignation tendered to all of wapa, but I leave you with a warning. If your leadership continues their oppressive rule, and seeks to involve the entire alliance in their corrupt activities, I doubt the world of Bob will be as easy to convince your doing the right thing, because those people will seek the answers, and if corruption is found they will burn it bright. I beg the innocents in this matter to seriously consider their course of actions.
Finally, I am going to return to war mode on the 6th. Any war debt will be repaid. This whole problem could have bee averted if you would have just let us walk away, Broon. I dont know if it was selfish pride that made you do it like you did, or you just have a hard on for acting like a bully. But you sir, may kiss my rebel $@!.”
All we want is the following from House Atreides.
Our demands are as follows.
1. An apology by the Government and Founding members of the gang known as House Atreides. Outlining what they have done and the damaged they caused. For there secrecy and dishonesty. This is also non negotiable
2. The extradition of Shortstar to WAPA for ZI. Or alternatively to us. This is negotiable.
We are also giving warning to Zenith who protects this gang, so long as House Atreides refuse to meet are terms you shall also face attack. A deadline was given to Londo of Athens.
To House Atreides’s trade partners both technology and resource. You also have until the deadline to cancel your trades with them should you decide not to heed our warning you shall also be attacked.
The following statement was issued on Jun 25th to Londo of Athens by use of email.
Quote
This is a formal letter of caution
The following alliances are ordered to drop all technology and resource trading with the gang known as House Atreides, if you do not comply you will be considered as aiding and abetting the enemy.
We are prepared to do whatever is necessary to achieve our goals. Do not take are warnings as hoaxes, we will prove are word by the sword.
You have 10 days to comply.
The following will be considered targets at the end of the 10 day deadline.
Ascended Republic of Elite States, Alpha Omega, Wolfpack ,The Order of the Paradox, The Kingdom of Poland, Socialist Workers Front, Citadel Trading Company, Imperial Assault Alliance.
The following alliances are ordered to drop all technology and resource trading with the gang known as House Atreides, if you do not comply you will be considered as aiding and abetting the enemy.
We are prepared to do whatever is necessary to achieve our goals. Do not take are warnings as hoaxes, we will prove are word by the sword.
You have 10 days to comply.
The following will be considered targets at the end of the 10 day deadline.
Ascended Republic of Elite States, Alpha Omega, Wolfpack ,The Order of the Paradox, The Kingdom of Poland, Socialist Workers Front, Citadel Trading Company, Imperial Assault Alliance.
Zenith was also given a letter to drop protection for House Atreides a number of days prior.
Quote
To Zenith, it is not your fault you do not know or could have known whom you protect. The alliance of House Atreides is not an alliance, and indeed its members are wanted for crimes of high treason and betrayal of which you now know.
We ask you this once and only once, drop protection for the gang known as House Atreides and no more attacks shall come to your nations, no more attacks on IRC, and no attempts at sabotage of your forums.
Our organization has no affiliations with any outside entities and our attacks have not been aided by any group or individual.
We ask you this once and only once, drop protection for the gang known as House Atreides and no more attacks shall come to your nations, no more attacks on IRC, and no attempts at sabotage of your forums.
Our organization has no affiliations with any outside entities and our attacks have not been aided by any group or individual.
When the deadline passes in 4 days time if any of the above alliances continue to trade both in technology and resources, they will be attacked.
Signed
The Partisans of the Satire
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