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Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

TrotskysRevenge
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TrotskysRevenge

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:ph34r:

Let it be known that that those who style themselves "Karma" exited negotiations this evening after giving the New Pacific Order one minute to agree to specific terms when Emperor TrotskysRevenge timed out due to to internet complications, despite the fact all terms previously presented had been accepted by all parties.

As I type, Athens has already attacked us, without any sort of Declaration of War, demonstrating that these entire negotiations were a farce.

We have been in this situation before. During the Great War, we were attacked by foes who outnumbered us, and against all odds, we prevailed. Still to this day, many veterans of the Great Patriotic War remain in Pacifica, and it is their strength that we call upon this day to defend Pacifica.

My Admin have mercy on their souls, for we shall have none.

Session Start: Tue Apr 21 20:42:16 2009

Session Ident: #peacetalks

03[20:42] * Now talking in #peacetalks

[20:42] <@Archon> Ah, Bakunin, good to see you finally join.

[20:43] <@Tygaland> good morning all

15[20:43] <Bakunin> hello

[20:43] <@Archon> I believe we are waiting on Moo-cows

[20:44] <Moo-cows> and a couuple others

[20:44] <@Archon> You will need to mention who.

[20:44] <@Archon> For sake of inviting.

[20:45] <Moo-cows> VektorZero

[20:45] <Moo-cows> El_Hefe[Echelon]

[20:47] <@Archon> Echelon?

03[20:47] * VektorZero has joined #peacetalks

[20:47] <@Archon> I'm confused as to why a non-NPO participant would be required.

[20:48] <Moo-cows> since we only attacked OV, I could ask the same thing

[20:48] <@Archon> Ah, then allow me to explain.

[20:48] <@Archon> I am acting in my same capacity as prior.

[20:49] <@Archon> And furthermore as the voice of Karma.

[20:49] <@Archon> Dani_C is of Ordo Verde, and thus his presense is fairly obvious.

[20:49] <@Archon> Delta1212[RIA], Roquentin|Umbrella, and Tygaland are sworn to defend Ordo Verde.

[20:49] <@Archon> Your aggressive and brash assault against Ordo Verde has prompted their appearance here.

15[20:50] <Bakunin> okay so they're here because they plan on being on OV's side of the war

15[20:50] <Bakunin> we just want the same thing

[20:50] <@Archon> One does not plan, when one is obligated by treaty.

[20:50] <@Archon> ...

[20:50] <@Archon> I just realized there are two readings to that.

[20:50] <@Archon> So allow me to rephrase

[20:51] <@Archon> We are here because we must. Echelon, on the ther hand, does not need to be.

[20:51] <Moo-cows> if there is a name for the group, then planning has occurred

[20:51] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> Well, it's your attack plan that drags our allies in. We will not let them die and thus we have to come in.

[20:51] <@Delta1212[RIA]> See the revisal of his statement

15[20:51] <Bakunin> OK, so should we stipulate that only our MADP partners should be allowed?

15[20:51] <Bakunin> They're obligated, after all

[20:51] <@Archon> I would say that your MADP partners are not being offered these surrender terms

[20:51] <@Archon> And would need to sue for separate peace.

[20:52] <@Archon> If they are so concerned about their defeat, they may contact me.

[20:52] <@Archon> And we will pre-emptively begin talks of their surrender as well.

06[20:52] * @Archon shrugs

[20:52] <@Archon> I'm all in favor of efficiency.

15[20:53] <Bakunin> Are you saying that non-OV alliances are going to be bound by the agreement, should one be made here?

[20:53] <@Dani_C> if they were obligated, they should have declared on us last night

[20:54] <Moo-cows> invite VektorZero, Mary_the_Fantabulous, Zhadum

[20:54] <VektorZero> I'm here, Moo

15[20:54] <Bakunin> Why? You won't find anything anywhere that says they're obligated to declare at the same time as we do.

03[20:55] * Zhadum has joined #peacetalks

03[20:55] * Mary_the_Fantabulous has joined #peacetalks

[20:55] <@Delta1212[RIA]> Don't you think this argument is a bit incidental to the point of the discussion?

[20:55] <@Tygaland> pretty much

[20:56] <Zhadum> Thank you kindly Archon, I take it this is the place to be for a discussion on how we might avoid further bloodshed and end this war in an amicable fashion?

15[20:56] <Bakunin> We haven't started the discussion yet. It seems we're still getting everyone here.

[20:56] <Zhadum> I further wish to thank you for your impartial mediation of this serious matter.

[20:56] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> Well it seems you have your side ready now.

[20:57] <@Archon> Your appreciation is noted, Zhadum.

[20:57] <@Archon> I'm glad the NPO has taken the time to reconsider their rash decision, and has come to this channel.

[20:58] <@Archon> Does the NPO require any more representatives, or shall I begin?

[20:59] <Zhadum> Naturally. It is never our desire to shed blood without reason and we certainly believe good faith negotiation for peace is the superior option to continued bloodletting

[20:59] <Moo-cows> this will be fine,...Philosopher may be coming online in a bit if he can

[20:59] <@Archon> Verywell.

[21:00] <@Archon> As in the previous negotiations, I am representing the interests of a large constituency, and thus I should not be taken as Archon of MK but rather as an interpretter of the will of Karma.

[21:00] <@Archon> I have been empowered to offer to you the following terms of surrender.

[21:00] <@Archon> In addition to their obvious rles, those who stand with me are here for purposes of clarification.

[21:00] <@Archon> Also, should I become unable to speak due to internet issues, they are empowered to continue on my behalf.

[21:01] <Moo-cows> I have connectivity issues as well

[21:01] <@Archon> I was going to ask.

[21:01] <Moo-cows> in that event Bakunin is charged to speak on my behalf

[21:01] <@Archon> Thank you.

[21:01] <@Archon> That is greatly appreciated.

[21:01] <Zhadum> I was under the impression this was a good faith peace negotiation, nor a dictation of terms of surrender. Was I mistaken?

[21:01] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> I believe Archon made it clear what this was prior to the meeting.

[21:01] <@Archon> You would be mistaken, then. I made it clear to Moo-cows that, to end a war, one must surrender.

02[21:02] * VektorZero Quit (Ping timeout)

[21:02] <@Archon> It is unfortunate, but the decision was yours.

[21:02] <Moo-cows> well actually that is not entirely true

[21:02] <Moo-cows> I did think the talks were over when OV reiterated their stance

[21:02] <Moo-cows> during the time my irc was crapped out

[21:02] <Moo-cows> there was no attempt to contact another member of the NPOP

[21:02] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> Well here's the problem with that

[21:02] <Moo-cows> -P

[21:03] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> bigwoody was still there

[21:03] <Moo-cows> to take my place

[21:03] <@Archon> I am aware of this complication, and am sympathetic.

[21:03] <@Archon> However, that doe snot change the legal ramifications of the situation.

[21:03] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> and you posted a DoW 40 minutes after the initial attacks occurred

[21:03] <@Dani_C> the fact still remains that you should have checked upon your return

[21:03] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> enough time to try to repair the situation

[21:03] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> Also a connection issue.

[21:03] <Moo-cows> again, because of connection issues

[21:03] <Zhadum> His return was 40 minutes after update

[21:03] <Moo-cows> anyone can attest to my connection issues of late

[21:04] <Moo-cows> I disconnect anywhere from 3-9 times a night

[21:04] <Moo-cows> sometimes for 5 minutes, sometimes for an hour or more

[21:04] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> So what you mean to tell me, you got back on and posted the DoW immediately

[21:04] <Moo-cows> I checked with my leadership

[21:04] <Moo-cows> to see if anyne had contacted them

[21:04] <Moo-cows> no one had

[21:04] <Moo-cows> so I posted the DoW

[21:05] <@Archon> Enough.

[21:05] <Moo-cows> I think the misunderstanding was on both sides

[21:05] <@Archon> You were in the midst of a conversation

[21:05] <@Archon> Between myself and Crymson

[21:05] <@Dani_C> misunderstanding?

[21:05] <@Archon> That clearly demonstrated talks had not ended.

[21:05] <@Dani_C> you declared war on my alliance, what is there to misunderstand?

[21:05] <@Dani_C> i apologize

[21:05] <Moo-cows> only because you refused the last offer and said your stance

[21:06] <@Dani_C> i'm a bit flustered at the moment with the current state of things

[21:06] <Moo-cows> was to attack mhawk if sethb was a ttacked

[21:06] <@Archon> Quite so

[21:06] <@Archon> It was then recognized

[21:06] <@Archon> by both parties

[21:06] <@Dani_C> that's over and done moo, i think we're moving on now

[21:06] <@Archon> that Dani_C was deferring to her representative, myself, and we moved on and continued to ngeotiate.

[21:06] <@Archon> Had you firmly believed there wasw no turning back

[21:07] <@Archon> You would not have cntinued speaking for the time you did.

[21:07] <@Archon> Now, either we move on with this

[21:07] <@Archon> Or we might as well end now.

[21:07] <@Archon> If you have an interest in atoning for your grevious error.

[21:07] <@Archon> I would suggest you let this go.

[21:08] <Zhadum> If I might inquire, if the sticking point as far as Moo's connectivity is concerned, was that BigWoody was still present, could you explain to me the terms issued to TORN?

[21:09] <@Archon> TORN's situation is different from the NPOs

[21:09] <Zhadum> It is, yes

[21:09] <@Archon> this was established by Moo-cows in the previous discussions.

[21:09] <@Archon> Therefore, I respectfully request that any such tangential conversation be saved til the end.

[21:09] <Zhadum> They were the ones pushing for war, they were the ones aware talks were taking place when they attacked

[21:10] <@Dani_C> again, it's a different situation, and we've evaluated it accordingly

02[21:10] * @Delta1212[RIA] Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)

[21:10] <Zhadum> Yes, it is. They were objectively at greater fault and so should be treated more harshly.

[21:10] <@Tygaland> we will discuss matters with them separately, this is about NPO, not TORN

[21:11] <@Tygaland> so, if we can focus on that and proceed with these discussions

[21:11] <@Archon> As my good friends have suggested, may we move past these petty matters and instead continue on to what has brought us here?

[21:12] <Zhadum> I would suggest TORN is what brought us here, but as you wish

03[21:13] * Delta1212[RIA] has joined #peacetalks

03[21:13] * Archon sets mode: +o Delta1212[RIA]

[21:14] <@Delta1212[RIA]> Apologies for the somewhat ironic pinging out

[21:14] <@Tygaland> lol

[21:14] <@Archon> Moo-cows?

[21:14] <@Archon> I need your consent to move on.

[21:14] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> All right, so back to what we were saying earlier, these are surrender talks.

[21:14] <Moo-cows> go ahead

[21:14] <@Archon> Very well.

[21:15] <@Archon> The first term is fairly simple.

[21:15] <@Archon> The NPO will issue a full, earnest, and sincere apology to Ordo Verde for their rash and unjustified declaration of war.

[21:16] <@Archon> Is this term accepted by the NPO?

[21:17] <Moo-cows> for now

[21:17] <@Archon> For now?

[21:18] <Moo-cows> let's see the other terms

[21:18] <@Tygaland> I don't believe that is how this works

[21:18] <Moo-cows> lol

[21:19] <Moo-cows> fine

[21:19] <Moo-cows> we accept it

[21:19] <@Archon> Very well.

[21:19] <@Archon> The second term is as follows:

[21:19] <@Archon> The NPO will admit that the casus belli used against Ordo Verde was trumped up and that the NPO over-reacted in an effort to provoke war.

[21:19] <Moo-cows> the CB was not trumped up

[21:19] <Moo-cows> sethb admitted it

[21:20] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> He may have admitted to accepting a screenshot, but it was hardly worthy of the coordinated war effort you set up.

[21:20] <Moo-cows> as I explained last night, we had no interest in OV until we were shown the logs from mhawk's conversation with you all the night before

[21:20] <Moo-cows> what coordinated war effort?

[21:20] <Moo-cows> we attacked

[21:20] <@Dani_C> you just accepted it

[21:20] <@Dani_C> and now you're arguing against your acceptance

[21:20] <Moo-cows> you're not making any sense

[21:21] <Moo-cows> sethb admitted what we said he did

[21:21] <@Tygaland> I believe the situation is that seth did admit to what you claimed he did. It is the opinion of Karma and those alliance under her banner that this was not a sufficient CB to attack OV as you did last night

[21:21] <Moo-cows> all treaties state that intelligencer will be shared with treaty partners that ffect them

[21:21] <Moo-cows> affect*

[21:21] <@Delta1212[RIA]> Moo: Did you ping out of talks last night?

[21:21] <Moo-cows> yes

[21:21] <Moo-cows> a few times

[21:22] <@Delta1212[RIA]> So you admit that you did what i said you did

[21:22] <@Delta1212[RIA]> Do I have a CB against you now?

02[21:22] * Moo-cows Quit (Connection reset by peer)

15[21:22] <Bakunin> lol

[21:22] <Zhadum> LOL

[21:22] <@Delta1212[RIA]> That might be the greatest timing ever

[21:22] <@Tygaland> haha

[21:22] <@Tygaland> thats gold

[21:23] <@Tygaland> I'll grab another coffee...

[21:23] <@Archon> I have to admit, even I laughed out louod

15[21:23] <Bakunin> Somebody want to invite him back? I don't have ops.

03[21:23] * Moo-cows has joined #peacetalks

[21:23] <@Tygaland> welcome back

[21:24] <@Tygaland>

[21:24] <Moo-cows>

[21:24] <Zhadum> We seem to be discussing two independent parts of the terms

[21:24] <Moo-cows> please invite Cortath

[21:24] <Zhadum> Moo is contesting that the CB was trumped up yet your replies are though he was stating it was not an overreaction

03[21:24] * Cortath has joined #peacetalks

[21:24] <Zhadum> I do not believe we have discussed the latter

[21:25] <Cortath> Greetings.

[21:25] <@Tygaland> hey Cortath

[21:26] <Cortath> Ah, Tyga, it's been a while since New Sparrow. How fare you?

[21:26] <@Tygaland> I am well, you?

[21:26] <Cortath> Very well, thank you. TPC lives on, barely. *chuckles*

[21:27] <@Tygaland> I really mus log in to NS...

[21:27] <@Tygaland> anywho, where were we?

[21:27] <@Archon> We were on the second term.

[21:27] <Zhadum> [21:22] <Delta1212[RIA]> Moo: Did you ping out of talks last night?

[21:27] <Zhadum> [21:23] <Moo-cows> yes

[21:27] <Zhadum> [21:23] <Moo-cows> a few times

[21:27] <Zhadum> [21:23] <Delta1212[RIA]> So you admit that you did what i said you did

[21:27] <Zhadum> [21:23] <Delta1212[RIA]> Do I have a CB against you now?

[21:27] <Zhadum> Moo is contesting that the CB was trumped up yet your replies are though he was stating it was not an overreaction

[21:27] <@Archon> The NPO will admit that the casus belli used against Ordo Verde was trumped up and that the NPO over-reacted in an effort to provoke war.

[21:28] <Zhadum> I do not believe we have discussed the latter

[21:28] <Moo-cows> we can't accept that

15[21:28] <Bakunin> All the facts we have asserted are true

[21:28] <Moo-cows> becausde the CB was true

15[21:28] <Bakunin> What you're doing is giving the opinion that the facts we presented did not justify the war.

[21:29] <Zhadum> There are two terms within that term: 1. The CB was trumped up. 2. The NPO overreacted

[21:29] <Zhadum> While 2 may be debatable, the first is patently false

06[21:29] * Cortath pours his earl grey double bergamot.

[21:30] <Moo-cows> I have a paper to do, so I am going to be working on that while we are doing this

[21:31] <Moo-cows> I didn't do it last night or the night before because of this and I have run out of time for it

[21:31] <@Archon> I apologize, I need to address another war related matter.

[21:31] <@Archon> For the moemnt, I need to defer to another moderator

[21:31] <@Archon> I will return shortly.

[21:32] <@Archon> Until then

[21:32] <@Archon> Tygaland will speak in my stead

[21:32] <@Archon> as the voice of Karma

[21:32] <@Tygaland> I believe the terms are non-negotiable. I take it that this term is rejected and we have come to the end of the line?

[21:32] <Cortath> Our CB was and is legitimate.

[21:32] <Zhadum> Surely you have some justification for your term?

15[21:33] <Bakunin> Do you dispute that sethb did do what we have accused him of doing and admitting to?

[21:33] <Moo-cows> The CB was and is legitimate. The latter term is subject to discussion

[21:33] <@Tygaland> The term is rejected then?

[21:33] <Moo-cows> as is stated, yes

[21:33] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> It's looking that way. We need a yes or no.

[21:33] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> Okay.

[21:34] <Zhadum> Further, I note not only is the term false, it is nonsensical

[21:34] <Zhadum> How can one trump up what is nothing more than a set of copied and pasted logs?

[21:34] <Zhadum> If the logs are in no way altered, how can they be trumped up?

15[21:34] <Bakunin> We're not going to say something that isn't true and that you haven't even denied isn't true.

[21:36] <@Tygaland> we can come back to this later, the next term is:

[21:36] <@Tygaland> The NPO will admit defeat at the hands of Karma in a public address.

[21:36] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> This is non-negotiable.

[21:37] <Moo-cows> defeat? how can there be defeat when Karma hasn't fired a shot?

[21:37] <@Delta1212[RIA]> You're surrendering

[21:37] <@Delta1212[RIA]> That's called defeat

[21:37] <@Tygaland> as Roquentin said, this is non-negotiable

[21:38] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> Yes, these are surrender talks and surrender terms.

[21:38] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> It is essential that they are recognized as such.

[21:40] <Moo-cows> we accept

[21:41] <@Tygaland> ok, next term:

[21:41] <@Tygaland> The NPO will pay reparations to Ordo Verde at a rate of 300% the damages dealt. This includes econmic damage dealt as a result of being in peace mode. To ensure that these reparations are paid promptly, the NPO will suspend all tech deals for the duration of these terms.

[21:42] <Cortath> There's no economic damage done for being in peace mode.

[21:42] <Zhadum> Indeed

[21:42] <Cortath> THey haven't been in peace mode for long enough for any damage to have been done.

[21:42] <Moo-cows> the economic damage comes much later

[21:42] <Cortath> Next term Tyga.

[21:42] <Zhadum> As the war will be over with two days at this rate, they can leave peace on the fifth and suffer no loss

[21:42] <Moo-cows> so what is the total amount of reps asked?

[21:43] <Moo-cows> give me a figure, please

[21:43] <@Tygaland> I take it you are accepting this term?

[21:43] <Cortath> No peace mode damages, Tyga.

[21:43] <Zhadum> More accurately Cortath, there are no peace mode damages

[21:43] <Cortath> There have been no damages due to peace mode. They haven't been in peace mode long enough to suffer any damages.

[21:43] <@Tygaland> if there are no peace mode damagaes then so be it, it makes no difference to the acceptance of the term as it stands

[21:44] <@Archon> They will not be able to exit peace mode without collecting.

[21:44] <@Archon> That will incur fiscal loss.

[21:44] <Zhadum> Peace mode only erodes tax collection after the sixth day

[21:44] <Cortath> Exactly.

[21:44] <Zhadum> If they leave on day five, the first opportunity, no income loss is incured

[21:44] <Cortath> Give us a number on the actual damages dealt, nothing due to peace mode.

[21:44] <@Tygaland> be that as it may, it doesn not alter the term offered nor your acceptance ot rejection of it

[21:44] <Moo-cows> change it to tech deals are suspended until reparations are completed

[21:45] <@Tygaland> it already says that

[21:45] <Zhadum> No, it says until terms are completed

[21:45] <@Archon> Gentlemen.

[21:45] <Zhadum> If there is another term later that says these terms last for a hundred bajillion years, the tech deals would be suspended tha tlong

[21:45] <@Archon> I hate to impede progress.

[21:45] <@Delta1212[RIA]> If there were no damages from peace mode, it'll hardly matter to agree to pay a debt of 0

[21:45] <@Archon> But I am afraid we have an issue.

[21:45] <@Archon> My constituency has informed me that the desire the second term to be agreed upon.

[21:46] <Moo-cows> I still would like a number

[21:46] <@Archon> Should it not, then it will be seen as a rejection of surrender.

[21:46] <Moo-cows> we will not state that the CB was not valid because it was not

[21:46] <Moo-cows> no one disagreed that sethb did w hat we stated

[21:46] <Moo-cows> the second part is workable

[21:46] <Moo-cows> or what he stated*

15[21:46] <Bakunin> Archon, do you or does anyone else here disagree that sethb did what we stated and what he stated he did?

[21:46] <@Tygaland> then we thank you for your time tonight

[21:47] <@Archon> The issue here is that it is the belief of karma that what sethb did

[21:47] <@Archon> Differs n ot at all from the actions of the NPO in the past.

[21:47] <@Archon> Especialyl in their acceptance of screenshots to use as evidence against GATO in previous CB.

[21:47] <@Archon> Especially*

[21:47] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> CIS as well.

[21:47] <@Archon> As such, the term is used to cover the reality that the matter pressed against sethb is not a crime.

[21:47] <Zhadum> Which could be evidence of hypocricy or overreaction, but what is the support that we trumped up anything?

[21:47] <@Archon> Hence it is false to call it a CB.

15[21:47] <Bakunin> Then make that the term. Right now the term requires us to make untrue factual statements.

[21:47] <Cortath> Archon, you speak for GATO? You don't know a thing about GATO.

[21:47] <@Tygaland> Seeing as this term is non-negotiable, I see no reason to continue as it is clear the NPO will not accept that term as it stands

[21:47] <@Archon> I do not speak for GATO, nor do I claim to have

[21:48] <Cortath> Then leave GATO out of this.

[21:48] <@Archon> The example stands

[21:48] <@Archon> Whether you like it or not.

[21:48] <Cortath> No, it doesn't stand.

[21:48] <Moo-cows> then rewrite the term

[21:48] <Zhadum> Gentlemen, please.

[21:48] <Moo-cows> we willstipulate to that

[21:48] <Moo-cows> will stipulate*

[21:48] <@Archon> How would you prefer the term be worded?

[21:48] <Cortath> GATO is a sovereign alliance. You could have brought them here to air their grievances. They are not here and you do not represent them. That is long past, and the NPO and GATO have come to terms over that.

[21:48] <Moo-cows> how you just expalined it

[21:49] <@Archon> I cannot seek to make a term a mile long.

[21:49] <Moo-cows> that in your view it is no different than etc etc

[21:49] <@Archon> If you wish, when the terms are posted.

[21:49] <Zhadum> Basically, the stticking point is this

[21:49] <@Archon> You may later post to clarify how you interpretted it

[21:49] <Zhadum> Trumped up implies we doctored the evidence

[21:49] <@Archon> In a separate post.

[21:49] <Moo-cows> that neveer works

[21:49] <Moo-cows> and you know it

[21:49] <@Tygaland> thanks for your time. I think we are at an impasse and it is time to end the discussion

[21:49] <@Archon> I must agree with my colleague.

15[21:49] <Bakunin> lol

[21:49] <@Archon> If you are prepared to accept the term at a later point in time.

[21:49] <@Delta1212[RIA]> It's most unfortunate

[21:49] <@Archon> Please do not hesitate to contact us.

[21:49] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> yes, I don't believe NPO understands that they need to accept that term.

[21:49] <Cortath> You still have not answered the question: what are the damages?

[21:49] <Moo-cows> yes, we are Artchon

[21:50] <@Archon> Pardon?

03[21:50] * @Tygaland has left #peacetalks

[21:50] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> you may not be entirely correct on that.

[21:50] <Moo-cows> I still would like a number

[21:50] <Moo-cows> a number for t he damages

[21:50] <@Archon> Your number would be given upon acceptance.

[21:50] <@Archon> However, if you do not accep the second term

[21:50] <@Archon> then the matter is moot.

[21:50] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> You seem rather eager to end this.

[21:50] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> We can't move on.

[21:50] <Zhadum> We could

[21:50] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> You seem eager to stall.

[21:50] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> We want a number.

[21:50] <Zhadum> You are choosing not to

15[21:50] <Bakunin> We're prepared to accept provided that we are not required to state that the evidence we supplied is not truthful.

[21:50] <Moo-cows> we are prepared to accept the 2nd term

[21:50] <@Archon> Mary_the_Fantabulous - Unlike you, we prefer to cleanly end negotiations

[21:50] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> Give us one.

[21:50] <@Archon> Prior to moving on.

[21:50] <Moo-cows> however, we need to have a number

[21:50] <Zhadum> Archon, if I may ask

[21:50] <Moo-cows> just like a number is always given in terms

[21:50] <@Archon> Moo-cows - That is the third term.

[21:50] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> Unlike you, we don't want this to continue.

[21:50] <@Delta1212[RIA]> It'll be less than 82k tech

[21:50] <@Archon> The second term concerns the apology for the CB.

[21:50] <Moo-cows> there is no specific number

[21:51] <@Archon> The third term is the reparations.

[21:51] <@Archon> I apologize for your confusion.

15[21:51] <Bakunin> Are there any other reparations?

[21:51] <@Archon> Karma has informed me

[21:51] <Moo-cows> we will accept the reparations, noting that t here is no economic damage from peace mode until the 6th day

[21:51] <@Archon> that I am not empowered to address any further terms

[21:51] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> We can't move on if you won't accept the second term, the people have spoken.

[21:51] <@Archon> Until the second term is agreed upon, as worded.

[21:51] <Zhadum> What is it you are intending for the second term to convey in sentiment?

[21:51] <@Archon> They argue that you can easily clarify later oon.

[21:51] <@Archon> There is no intent - I am not empowered to alter the terms.

15[21:51] <Bakunin> Then we need a clarification on what the second term actually requires.

[21:52] <@Archon> And time grows short.

[21:52] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> then who is?

[21:52] <Moo-cows> and they know full well, that all will be read are the terms

[21:52] <Moo-cows> especially from the NPO

[21:52] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> If you are the voice of Karma

[21:52] <@Archon> Your clarification has been given in here.

15[21:52] <Bakunin> Will we be required to state that our declaration of war was not factually correct?

[21:52] <Moo-cows> no one will care our clarification

[21:52] <@Archon> To be honest, that is not my problem if you cannot reach your own populaiton.

[21:52] <@Archon> population, even.

[21:52] <Moo-cows> I'm not talking our own population

[21:52] <@Archon> We have clearly defined what the second term entails.

[21:52] <Moo-cows> we have no worries there

[21:52] <@Archon> [22:52] <Moo-cows> and they know full well, that all will be read are the terms

[21:52] <@Archon> [22:52] <Moo-cows> especially from the NPO

[21:53] <Moo-cows> on the OWF

15[21:53] <Bakunin> Then you'll have no problem answering my question.

15[21:53] <Bakunin> [21:52] <Bakunin> Will we be required to state that our declaration of war was not factually correct?

[21:53] <Moo-cows> was*

[21:53] <Moo-cows> oops

[21:53] <Moo-cows> sorry

[21:53] <@Archon> This was clarified bakunin. We are asking you to admit that the crime sethb was accused of was not a crime as per precedent established by the NPO.

[21:54] <@Archon> As such, the NPO overreacted and declared war over nothing worse than what they have done themselves.

15[21:54] <Bakunin> But not that he did not do anything we accused him of doing.

15[21:54] <Bakunin> Okay, thanks

[21:54] <Moo-cows> that the crime s sethb admitted to was not a crime.....

[21:54] <@Archon> I could have put quotes arund the first crime

[21:54] <Moo-cows> just change that one word

[21:54] <@Archon> to have better communicate my point.

[21:54] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> It wasn't a crime, it was merely an action that you commit yourself.

[21:55] <Moo-cows> admit that the act sethb admitted to w as ....

[21:55] <Cortath> When have we committed this action?

[21:55] <Cortath> With that ridiculous PR stunt today?

[21:55] <Moo-cows> Cortath, leave it

[21:55] <Cortath> Fine.

[21:55] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> You accept intel as well.

[21:55] <Moo-cows> and intel is passed on to alliances that are affected

[21:55] <Moo-cows> he did not do that

[21:55] <Moo-cows> but that is neither here nor there

[21:55] <Moo-cows> at this point

[21:56] <Zhadum> I believe with this clarification all three terms have been accepted

[21:56] <Zhadum> Is it not time to move on?

[21:56] <@Archon> Can Moo confirm this?

[21:56] <Moo-cows> he is correct

[21:56] <@Archon> Thank you.

[21:57] <@Archon> The fourth term is as follows:

[21:57] <@Archon> Ah.

[21:57] <Zhadum> Ah?

[21:57] <@Archon> I made a slight mistake in numbering.

[21:57] <@Archon> The reparations term was the 4th.

[21:57] <@Archon> The third was the admission of defeat.

[21:57] <@Archon> My apologies

[21:57] <@Archon> We're actually on the 5th.

[21:57] <Zhadum> Alright, then number five it is

[21:58] <Cortath> We still haven't heard the number for the reparations.

[21:58] <@Archon> Cortath - That was addressed.

[21:58] <@Archon> The fifth term is as follows:

[21:58] <@Archon> In recognition of the tensions caused by the NPO's rash declaration of war, and to ensure peace is maintained, the NPO will hereby decomission their soldiers down to 20% per nation. They will furthermore decommission all CMs, Tanks, Navy, and Aircraft. They must maintain this state for a period of 60 days.

15[21:58] <Bakunin> Are there any reparations being requested besides those already stated?

[21:58] <Moo-cows> no, it waasn't

[21:58] <Cortath> No, it was not addressed, Archon.

[21:58] <@Archon> A number will be provided once terms are accepted

[21:58] <Moo-cows> given the war hasn't lastedeven 24 hours

[21:58] <@Archon> and further war can be avoided.

[21:58] <Moo-cows> that is unacceptable

[21:59] <@Archon> As you were earlier requesting your MADP partners enter this room

[21:59] <@Archon> It is clear there was every intent to escalate.

[21:59] <@Archon> Karma wishes to ensure this does not occur.

[21:59] <@Delta1212[RIA]> Bakunin: No further aid transactions will be requested besides those paying for Ordo Verde's damages

[21:59] <@Archon> And feels that would be the most suffient way to do so.

15[21:59] <Bakunin> Thanks, Delta

[21:59] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> really

03[21:59] * Tygaland has joined #peacetalks

03[21:59] * Archon sets mode: +o Tygaland

[21:59] <Moo-cows> hang on a sec

[21:59] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> If you won't accept the fifth term.

[22:00] <Moo-cows> so are we under protection during that time?

[22:00] <@Archon> Yes

[22:00] <Moo-cows> by whom?

[22:00] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> by whom, exactly?

[22:00] <@Archon> Ordo Verde.

[22:00] <@Archon> During this time, the NPO will be under the protection of Ordo Verde. To assist in this matter, all nations currently in peace mode will remain in peace mode for the duration of the terms.

[22:00] <Moo-cows> excuse me

[22:00] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> then why aren't they here?

06[22:00] * @Archon points to Dani_C

[22:00] <Moo-cows> they are

[22:00] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> They are here.

[22:00] <@Dani_C> i am

[22:00] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> We are empowered to speak on their behalf.

[22:00] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> so it seems

[22:01] <Moo-cows> peace mode eis enacting further economic sanctions

[22:01] <Moo-cows> that is not ok

[22:01] <@Archon> You haven't agreed to the decomissioning term.

[22:02] <@Archon> We will address that after this.

15[22:02] <Bakunin> We are a significantly larger alliance than Ordo Verde. What happens if they prove incapable of defending us?

[22:02] <Cortath> Archon, frnakly, this terms aren't terms at all. It's "Agree to this abstract thing, and you'll hear what it really means after you agree."

15[22:02] <Bakunin> Would we be allowed to cover their deficiency using our own military?

[22:02] <@Delta1212[RIA]> I would point out that keeping your nations in Peace Mode simply prevents tem from being attacked, a far better term than having them all ZI'd

[22:03] <@Archon> Bakunin - Ordo Verde, in conjunction with its allies, would be more than capable of defending you.

[22:03] <@Archon> Also, Cortath - I am following the model that the NPO used in the Second Great War.

15[22:03] <Bakunin> So Ordo Verde and its allies would be protecting us

[22:03] <@Dani_C> correct

[22:03] <@Archon> Well an attack on an Ordo Verde protectorate

15[22:03] <Bakunin> Who counts as an ally?

[22:03] <@Archon> would enact Ordo Verde's defensive treaties.

[22:03] <@Dani_C> VE, GOD, Vanguard

[22:03] <@Delta1212[RIA]> Ordo Verde is free to call in its allies for any conflict

15[22:03] <Bakunin> One would presume.

[22:03] <Moo-cows> if we are full-on attacked, OV cannot possibly defend us

[22:03] <@Delta1212[RIA]> As currently should be obvious

[22:04] <@Dani_C> our allies are fully capable of doing so

[22:04] <@Archon> I should note that OV wa sfull on attacked by the NPO

[22:04] <Zhadum> Unlikely

[22:04] <Moo-cows> defending us would be an aggressive act for their treaties

[22:04] <Moo-cows> not defensive

[22:04] <@Archon> and you are currently asking to surrender to them.

[22:04] <@Archon> Questioning the ability of they and their allies.

[22:04] <@Archon> Is not exactly rational given that reality.

[22:04] <@Delta1212[RIA]> Moo-cows: We don't e-lawyer our way out of comittments

15[22:04] <Bakunin> Are any of OV's allies willing to commit to defending us?

[22:04] <Moo-cows> well, given that we have 900 members

[22:04] <Moo-cows> that's a lot of defending

[22:04] <@Delta1212[RIA]> They will defend OV

[22:05] <@Delta1212[RIA]> If you are fighting the same group as OV

[22:05] <@Dani_C> as i've stated before, you will be fully protected

[22:05] <@Delta1212[RIA]> They will fight them too

[22:05] <@Archon> Moo-cows

[22:05] <@Archon> Either accept the term or reject it.

[22:05] <@Archon> We are aware of your furtive actions

[22:05] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> Yes

[22:05] <Cortath> Furtive actions? *chuckles*

02[22:06] * Moo-cows Quit (Client exited)

[22:06] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> these negotiations seem more and more like a stalling technique than anything else.

[22:06] <@Archon> Bakunin

[22:06] <@Archon> Accept or reject.

15[22:06] <Bakunin> The soldier terms needs to have a bit of breathing room, don't you think?

15[22:06] <Bakunin> 30% at least

[22:06] <@Archon> You disagreed with FAN.

15[22:06] <Bakunin> Many in this room made the same argument

[22:06] <@Archon> I apologize for the haste, Bakunin

[22:07] <@Archon> However, it has been made clear

[22:07] <@Archon> That we are running short on time.

[22:07] <@Archon> So either accept the term

[22:07] <Cortath> Are we dedicated to your destruction as FAN is to ours? These arguments have been hashed over and over again in the CN OWF. Is that what this channel is for?

[22:07] <@Archon> or reject it.

[22:07] <Cortath> Moo-Cows has timed out. Permit him to rejoin.

15[22:07] <Bakunin> What are we running up against, if I may ask?

15[22:07] <Bakunin> Update is still a ways off if you mean that.

[22:07] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> Our constituency is growing tired.

[22:07] <@Archon> You are negotiating in poor faith

[22:07] <@Archon> Given your actions outside of this channel.

[22:07] <@Archon> If you do not accept or reject within the next minute

[22:07] <@Archon> It will be seen as stalling

[22:08] <@Archon> ANd I will be forced to end these negotiations.

[22:08] <Cortath> *You* are negotiating in poor faith. There is no "time limit" here.

[22:08] <Cortath> The terms were until 10 PM CN time. We are two hours away. We have quite a bit of time.

[22:08] <@Archon> Cortath - Your lack of cooperation are noted.

06[22:08] * Cortath chuckles.

[22:08] <Zhadum> We are stalling when you refuse to even permit our leader to be present?

[22:08] <@Archon> Bakunin was empowered to speak on his behalf.

[22:08] <@Archon> Thank you.

[22:08] <Zhadum> When Moo was offline, he no longer is

[22:09] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> That was agreed to before we began.

03[22:09] * Moo-cows has joined #peacetalks

03[22:09] * Archon sets mode: +o Moo-cows

[22:09] <@Archon> Accept or reject.

15[22:09] <Bakunin> We wish to know how violations of the terms will be addressed prior to continuing.

06[22:09] * @Archon sighs

[22:09] <@Archon> The time has elapsed.

[22:09] <@Archon> I apologize for the time limit

[22:09] <@Moo-cows> wow

[22:09] <@Moo-cows> even we were never that harsh

15[22:10] <Bakunin> Given the apparent likelihood that at least one of our nations will probably have more than 20% soliders at some point

[22:10] <@Moo-cows> and we did compromise

[22:10] <@Moo-cows> a lot in our terms

[22:10] <@Archon> I am no more happy than you about this

[22:10] <@Archon> However, your flight into peace mode has been noted.

[22:10] <@Moo-cows> oh wwell, so much for a kindler gentler CN

[22:10] <@Archon> You are negotiating in poor faith.

[22:10] <@Archon> I thank you for your time.

[22:10] <@Moo-cows> who w ent into peace mode?

[22:10] <@Moo-cows> other than who was already there?

[22:10] <@Archon> However, I must officially declare these talks to be at an end.

[22:10] <@Roquentin|Umbrella> Yeah, I'm afraid we're done here.

[22:10] <Zhadum> Yes, we are the ones imposing one minute time limits when your leaders are out of the room

[22:10] <@Archon> You know how to reach me

[22:10] <@Moo-cows> well, guess it wouldn't have mattered that we accepted the term

[22:11] <Zhadum> Yes, that is us negotiating in bad faith

[22:11] <Cortath> Let it be known that it is you who ended this, Archon.

[22:11] <@Moo-cows> you never wanted to give us terms

[22:11] <@Moo-cows> you think you will destroy us

[22:11] <Cortath> They only wanted war, Moo-cows. This was a farce.

15[22:11] <Bakunin> Every time we've presented anyone terms, we've at least gotten to the point where they were all presented.

[22:11] <Zhadum> Indeed, the reason for this is the terms were never intended for us to accept them

[22:11] <@Tygaland> lol

[22:11] <@Archon> You may believe what you wish.

[22:11] <@Moo-cows> you can ZI us but you won't destroy us

[22:11] <@Tygaland> you guys crack me up

[22:11] <@Moo-cows> well, we did accept all the terms

[22:11] <@Archon> Before this gets ugly on both sides.

[22:11] <@Moo-cows> so thanks for the talks

[22:11] <@Archon> I thank you for your respect

[22:11] <@Archon> And your time.

[22:12] <@Archon> I wish you the best in this.

[22:12] <@Moo-cows> and yours as w ell

[22:12] <Mary_the_Fantabulous> And we thank you for yours.

[22:12] <@Archon> Should you need me, you know how to reach me.

[22:12] <@Tygaland> goodnight

[22:12] <@Dani_C> night

[22:12] <@Delta1212[RIA]> Auf wiedersehen

[22:12] <@Archon> And Moo-cows, thank you for what you did for MK. Despite this calamity, it will not be forgotten

[22:12] <@Archon> Adieu

03[22:12] * @Archon has left #peacetalks

03[22:12] * @Roquentin|Umbrella has left #peacetalks

03[22:12] * @Dani_C has left #peacetalks

03[22:12] * @Delta1212[RIA] has left #peacetalks

03[22:12] * @Tygaland has left #peacetalks

Edited by TrotskysRevenge
If you think I am editing out all that personal inf you are nuts - revan
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